Another Opinion on Eric Berry

[KC Warpaint 3,235]

ESPN’s Louis Riddick was a player and scout in the NFL and just interviewed for the 49ers GM job this year. He understands the dynamics in an NFL locker room and talked about how that relates to Eric Berry’s franchise tag.

I thought this was insightful given his experience:

 

“When you start messing around with guys like this in terms of long-term contracts and you start making it all about dollars and cents and slotting them into a certain position and you don’t pay attention to how much they mean in the locker room, you can get yourself into trouble,” Riddick said recently on ESPN.

 

“You may feel as though you got the best value for them or saved your organization some money from a pure bottom line standpoint. I’ve seen how this happens. I’ve seen what it means when you lose guys like this and all of a sudden the other players kind of rebel against it. They get very angry about it and all of a sudden your team can kind of go haywire.

 

“We had it happen in Washington when Ryan Clark was there. Sean Taylor, not a happy camper. Adam Archuleta, wasn’t very smooth sailing when he came in there and tried to mess with Sean Taylor.”

 

All the public reports about how far away they were last year and Berry’s agent this year saying they’re not close suggests it may not get done. But it has to get done. I would still bet on the Chiefs to get this done somehow because of the dynamics that Riddick mentions here.

[PhataLerror 370]

“When you start messing around with guys like this in terms of long-term contracts and you start making it all about dollars and cents and slotting them into a certain position and you don’t pay attention to how much they mean in the locker room, you can get yourself into trouble,” Riddick said recently on ESPN.

What's a "leader", anyway? Let's start there.

 

A leader is not the most tenured player, the loudest player, or the most important player. The Chiefs have multiple players on defense alone that could be considered a "leader". How many of those do the Chiefs need? What "leader" will the Chiefs have to release so that they can keep the "leader" they have in Berry?

 

Riddick's take is just another one of the tropes that the media has to resort to in order to fill air time. The real issue with Berry is just this: Is he worth what he is demanding? The answer, based on the contract offers previously refused, is, No.

[azchief21 5,278]

ESPN’s Louis Riddick was a player and scout in the NFL and just interviewed for the 49ers GM job this year. He understands the dynamics in an NFL locker room and talked about how that relates to Eric Berry’s franchise tag.

I thought this was insightful given his experience:

 

“When you start messing around with guys like this in terms of long-term contracts and you start making it all about dollars and cents and slotting them into a certain position and you don’t pay attention to how much they mean in the locker room, you can get yourself into trouble,” Riddick said recently on ESPN.

 

“You may feel as though you got the best value for them or saved your organization some money from a pure bottom line standpoint. I’ve seen how this happens. I’ve seen what it means when you lose guys like this and all of a sudden the other players kind of rebel against it. They get very angry about it and all of a sudden your team can kind of go haywire.

 

“We had it happen in Washington when Ryan Clark was there. Sean Taylor, not a happy camper. Adam Archuleta, wasn’t very smooth sailing when he came in there and tried to mess with Sean Taylor.”

 

All the public reports about how far away they were last year and Berry’s agent this year saying they’re not close suggests it may not get done. But it has to get done. I would still bet on the Chiefs to get this done somehow because of the dynamics that Riddick mentions here.

Aside from being a leader he's a play maker. We need as many of those on defense that we can get to offset an offense which is barely average. 

[KCSLC2008 606]

When we have a hard salary cap that we are trying to compete against the rest of the league, I think it makes it hard to argue that the player has no blame in not signing a better contract for the team to retain him.

 

Obviously, the team is at fault for putting money elsewhere if there isn't room for the person that has to leave for a better offer. I understand that they are looking out for their livelihoods, but they do have plenty of money. Owners also have plenty of money, but they can't use that money beyond the cap. Therefore, the blame goes on how they managed that cap. It doesn't go for trying to be cheap and wanting to keep the money, though they would no doubt some teams would definitely do if there were minimums.

 

Everyone wants more and Berry deserves more than a lot of people do, even on this team, but if he really wanted to be here, he could. It would set a bad precedent and I wouldn't blame him for going for more money, but if you really wanted to be here, he could. These players that rebel could also give up some money from their contracts to keep them here. They could set up a go fund me account for Berry. Or they could spend their energy becoming better and closing the gap that it would leave when Berry chose elsewhere.

 

It is not their responsibility and I still place the blame on the organization for money management, but it isn't the only cause for why he won't be here if he leaves. If he does leave and that's his decision, that's fine. I'm not going to blame him.

[PhataLerror 370]

If Eric Berry goes to another team and signs a best-in-the-league-at-his-position contract, the Chiefs will reap dividends, becoming better than that team as a product of addition by subtraction.

 

Did you see what I did there?

[KCSLC2008 606]

Compensatory picks?

[KC Warpaint 3,235]

What's a "leader", anyway? Let's start there.

 

A leader is not the most tenured player, the loudest player, or the most important player. The Chiefs have multiple players on defense alone that could be considered a "leader". How many of those do the Chiefs need? What "leader" will the Chiefs have to release so that they can keep the "leader" they have in Berry?

 

Riddick's take is just another one of the tropes that the media has to resort to in order to fill air time. The real issue with Berry is just this: Is he worth what he is demanding? The answer, based on the contract offers previously refused, is, No.

 

 

That is your answer....not shared by others

[azchief21 5,278]

Compensatory picks?

Maybe we can get a 4th round QB that doesn't last a year and a safety to replace Berry.You know a good "value" player that we'll be looking to replace the following year. Berry literally won games for us last year. And I'm pretty sure he was probably pretty helpful as we plugged in new players on defense just about every week.

[liquidfriend 1,151]

I think people are glossing over one detail. You can't just keep overpaying to retain people.

 

The Chiefs are in this cap mess because of overpaying and eventually have to say that enough is enough.

 

I'd franchise Berry one more time than let him walk if he wants to be paid like a corner. Draft his replacement this year and let them learn as an understudy for a year.

 

But wow imagine that. A former Redskins admin not caring about the salary cap.

 

Berry wants to be paid more than Matthieu, another playmaker that had excellent coverage skills, without the excellent covering ability. Just doesn't mesh.

[azchief21 5,278]

I think people are glossing over one detail. You can't just keep overpaying to retain people.

 

The Chiefs are in this cap mess because of overpaying and eventually have to say that enough is enough.

 

I'd franchise Berry one more time than let him walk if he wants to be paid like a corner. Draft his replacement this year and let them learn as an understudy for a year.

 

But wow imagine that. A former Redskins admin not caring about the salary cap.

 

Berry wants to be paid more than Matthieu, another playmaker that had excellent coverage skills, without the excellent covering ability. Just doesn't mesh.

The Donks brought in Ware, Manning, Talib, Ward, Sanders, etc. We discuss value and how great players cost too much. One team went to 2 super bowls and won one. The other is one and done and satisfied.

[liquidfriend 1,151]

The Donks brought in Ware, Manning, Talib, Ward, Sanders, etc. We discuss value and how great players cost too much. One team went to 2 super bowls and won one. The other is one and done and satisfied.

The thing is Denver brought them in without doing massive overpaying.

[eraser 722]

Eric Berry says he will not play if he is franchised. Well, he might not, but if he doesn't, he is one year older, and still belongs to the Chiefs, who could franchise him again.

 

I find it interesting a former executive of Philadelphia, and Washington has so much to say about this. It's almost tampering (if only he were still employed by the Eagles). It makes one question his loyalty with Andy Reid. Riddick was brought to the Eagles by Andy Reid. One year after Reid was released, Riddick was in charge of the draft, and then got fired. He didn't do so well by himself.

[KC Warpaint 3,235]

The thing is Denver brought them in without doing massive overpaying.

 

 

Because they had the selling point of Manning, you are not going to get those types of players to come to KC just for the chance

to play with alex smith

[eraser 722]

Because they had the selling point of Manning, you are not going to get those types of players to come to KC just for the chance

to play with alex smith

Which is why the Chiefs need to trade their entire draft for Romo. After all, hasn't he been a sure thing when it comes to winning Super Bowls?

[Gil 243]

Cut Alex and Foles, draft our QB. Leaves plenty $ for Berry and FAs at ILB and OG.

 

I should be the GM of this team.

[azchief21 5,278]

Cut Alex and Foles, draft our QB. Leaves plenty $ for Berry and FAs at ILB and OG.

 

I should be the GM of this team.

Boom. Drop the mic.

[kccrow 529]

I would not pay top CB money for a S, no matter what. 

 

Berry isn't the best in the league at his position. He fits somewhere between 6th and 10th in my opinion. So, no, you don't pay him whatever he wants just because he's a leader. 

 

When leaders leave, other leaders have to step up to the plate. It's a business.

 

At a maximum, I'd offer Berry 10 m per with 17 m guaranteed, take it or leave it.

 

That money could go to a young stud right guard like Kevin Zeitler (Cincinnati) and a good ILB like Zach Brown (Buffalo)

 

I'm actually on board with taking advantage of this draft class and letting Berry and Poe both walk.

 

Sign Abry Jones (Jacksonville) to play NT on an Al Woods type deal (3 years 11 m), sign Zeitler and Brown. Go get yourself a good safety in round 2 or 3 like Utah's Marcus Williams.

 

Sometimes you just have to let some good guys walk to make the overall team better.

[liquidfriend 1,151]

I wouldn't pay Zeitler the money he will command in the open market. He'd be the highest paid lineman on the line and I think having your RG being paid tops is absurd.

[SEMO 6,811]

I would not pay top CB money for a S, no matter what.

 

Berry isn't the best in the league at his position. He fits somewhere between 6th and 10th in my opinion. So, no, you don't pay him whatever he wants just because he's a leader.

 

When leaders leave, other leaders have to step up to the plate. It's a business.

 

At a maximum, I'd offer Berry 10 m per with 17 m guaranteed, take it or leave it.

 

That money could go to a young stud right guard like Kevin Zeitler (Cincinnati) and a good ILB like Zach Brown (Buffalo)

 

I'm actually on board with taking advantage of this draft class and letting Berry and Poe both walk.

 

Sign Abry Jones (Jacksonville) to play NT on an Al Woods type deal (3 years 11 m), sign Zeitler and Brown. Go get yourself a good safety in round 2 or 3 like Utah's Marcus Williams.

 

Sometimes you just have to let some good guys walk to make the overall team better.

What do you think of Melifonwu?

[DefensiveMan 758]

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/news/nfl-mock-draft-browns-pass-on-qbs-for-stud-defenders-myles-garrett-malik-hooker/

 

ILB Zach Cunningham. 

[kccrow 529]

I wouldn't pay Zeitler the money he will command in the open market. He'd be the highest paid lineman on the line and I think having your RG being paid tops is absurd.

 

It is quite possible he could command 10 million per. If you can get him at 8 per, I think its a steal. Chiefs certainly got Schwartz well below expected last year. Fisher's extension is for 12 million per, so he wouldn't be highest paid on the team. If they were able to get him at 8 per and it is structured anything similar to Brooks last year, he had hits of 3.2 million in 2016 and 7.2 in 2017. Very reasonable. Hell, split the difference and make it 5.2 per, it looks good. Not sure what he'll command. 

 

Would you take T.J. Lang on a 3-year deal the same as Josh Sitton got last year?

 

Chiefs have LDT for one more season and he's subpar anyhow, so they can either hope LDT gets better (unlikely, but possible) or they can get better at the position now. 

 

Draft is really strong at CB, OG, RB, S, and EDGE. I wouldn't be opposed to not going the FA route at OG, but I think you take advantage of a good class and try to upgrade.

[kccrow 529]

What do you think of Melifonwu?

 

I normally hate DBs over 6'1" because I find them to be really clunky. However, Obi is really quite agile for his height and transitions well. Hits well, plays the ball well. I like him. Probably not before round 3, but I like him.

 

Some other guys I really like in this draft at safety are Marcus Williams, Justin Evans, John Johnson, and Tedric Thompson. Obviously, I don't feel guys like Adams, Hooker, or Peppers are going to be in range.

[DefensiveMan 758]

It is quite possible he could command 10 million per. If you can get him at 8 per, I think its a steal. Chiefs certainly got Schwartz well below expected last year. Fisher's extension is for 12 million per, so he wouldn't be highest paid on the team. If they were able to get him at 8 per and it is structured anything similar to Brooks last year, he had hits of 3.2 million in 2016 and 7.2 in 2017. Very reasonable. Hell, split the difference and make it 5.2 per, it looks good. Not sure what he'll command.

 

Would you take T.J. Lang on a 3-year deal the same as Josh Sitton got last year?

 

Chiefs have LDT for one more season and he's subpar anyhow, so they can either hope LDT gets better (unlikely, but possible) or they can get better at the position now.

 

Draft is really strong at CB, OG, RB, S, and EDGE. I wouldn't be opposed to not going the FA route at OG, but I think you take advantage of a good class and try to upgrade.

That's exactly what we'll do. Signing a tackle from FA makes more sense than a guard. Plenty of good guards in the draft to be groomed. We needed a RT badly last year which is why we brought in Schwartz. Getting Ehinger back at LG will help the overall line and Fisher's play immensely. LDT will probably start another year. We need another RG long term.

[liquidfriend 1,151]

It is quite possible he could command 10 million per. If you can get him at 8 per, I think its a steal. Chiefs certainly got Schwartz well below expected last year. Fisher's extension is for 12 million per, so he wouldn't be highest paid on the team. If they were able to get him at 8 per and it is structured anything similar to Brooks last year, he had hits of 3.2 million in 2016 and 7.2 in 2017. Very reasonable. Hell, split the difference and make it 5.2 per, it looks good. Not sure what he'll command.

 

Would you take T.J. Lang on a 3-year deal the same as Josh Sitton got last year?

 

Chiefs have LDT for one more season and he's subpar anyhow, so they can either hope LDT gets better (unlikely, but possible) or they can get better at the position now.

 

Draft is really strong at CB, OG, RB, S, and EDGE. I wouldn't be opposed to not going the FA route at OG, but I think you take advantage of a good class and try to upgrade.

If the Chiefs go after a bigger time FA, I think Lang would be the guy.

 

Too many teams with an ungodly amount of cap space in a pretty mediocre FA class. Somebody is absolutely going to give Zeitler an avg North of 10m per year.

 

That's exactly what we'll do. Signing a tackle from FA makes more sense than a guard. Plenty of good guards in the draft to be groomed. We needed a RT badly last year which is why we brought in Schwartz. Getting Ehinger back at LG will help the overall line and Fisher's play immensely. LDT will probably start another year. We need another RG long term.

This really isn't a great class for OLine in general. Too many went back to NCAA for another year. 2018 will be better.

[PhataLerror 370]

That is your answer....not shared by others

I'm not expecting my opinion to be shared by all others. Are you suggesting that no one agrees? I'm pretty sure that if the Chiefs don't re-sign Berry, that means the Chiefs agreed with me.

 

What's your justification for keeping Berry at any cost? Because Louis Riddick warned that the Chiefs are doomed if they don't 'pay the man'?

 

Or has civility gone out the window in this forum?