Bold offseason predicton

[azchief21 5,278]

To toss you a bone, Alex Smith wasn't lime this coming out of Utah.

 

Injuries and awful coaching wrecked him pretty bad and sapped his power. Harbaugh rolled in and turned him into a dink and dunk machine. He finally had success for about the first time in his pro career and won't let go of it because he doesn't want to hear we want carr pt 2.

 

He's just hit his ceiling here and Reid seems to be out of new tricks for him in this Offense. He probably needs to go somewhere else with a fresh concept before all his physical ability is gone for good.

I don't think Harbaugh turned him in to dink & dunk. I think the fact that he was dink & dunk was why Harbaugh sent him to the bench. 

[liquidfriend 1,151]

I don't think Harbaugh turned him in to dink & dunk. I think the fact that he was dink & dunk was why Harbaugh sent him to the bench.

 

There really wasn't a plan before Harbaugh because it seemed like he had a new coordinator every single season. He also got hurt a lot.

 

He looked more confident and in control of an offense for the short time he was under Norv.

 

Lets not forget they had Jimmy Raye running the offense.

[PhataLerror 370]

To toss you a bone, Alex Smith wasn't lime this coming out of Utah.

 

Injuries and awful coaching wrecked him pretty bad and sapped his power. Harbaugh rolled in and turned him into a dink and dunk machine. He finally had success for about the first time in his pro career and won't let go of it because he doesn't want to hear we want carr pt 2.

 

He's just hit his ceiling here and Reid seems to be out of new tricks for him in this Offense. He probably needs to go somewhere else with a fresh concept before all his physical ability is gone for good.

*shrug*

 

I don't see how this answered the question I asked. YAC is bad when it comes from Smith. For anyone else, it's a good thing. That's all I get from you before you backed out of this. Fine.

[Calichief 3,016]

I've been consistent all along. You're losing the argument, which will make your Alex Smith fanclub angry, so you're spinning this every way possible.

You are wrong about one thing, there is no fan club. Just 2. Unless 2, constitutes a club.

 

And KCSL, before you get defensive, I'm not counting you.

[liquidfriend 1,151]

*shrug*

 

I don't see how this answered the question I asked. YAC is bad when it comes from Smith. For anyone else, it's a good thing. That's all I get from you before you backed out of this. Fine.

If that's what you got from it, you're completely ignorant and not worth wasting another second.

 

 

You are wrong about one thing, there is no fan club. Just 2. Unless 2, constitutes a club.

And KCSL, before you get defensive, I'm not counting you.

KCSL is pretty level-headed about it.

[kccrow 529]

There is a comparison being made here between Brady and Smith? GTFOH. Smith couldn't hold the sweat in Brady's jock strap, let alone the strap itself.

[eraser 722]

There is a comparison being made here between Brady and Smith? GTFOH. Smith couldn't hold the sweat in Brady's jock strap, let alone the strap itself.

Probably true, but NE's offense made Matt Cassel into a starter for the Chiefs, with a burdensome contract to deal with. I would like to see Alex Smith as a back up to uncle Tom. 

[KC Warpaint 3,235]

Probably true, but NE's offense made Matt Cassel into a starter for the Chiefs, with a burdensome contract to deal with. I would like to see Alex Smith as a back up to uncle Tom. 

 

he would get a ring

[omahacolt 208]

Silly statement. Check out the attached video and look at air yards vs. YAC. Keep in mind he's like 60 now in his 40th year. He's had seasons with over 50 TDs and over 5000 yards. 5 Super Bowl wins. Brady has averaged 3600 yds/season. AA's best year ever was 3502 and his average is 2531. Brady has averaged 26 TDs per year AA's best year 23. He's averaged 14. So one is a Hall of Famer and the other is a dink & dunk journeyman. Comparing Brady to AA is goofy. But don't worry Peyton was a great QB. 

 

i wasn't comparing brady to smith.  just their offenses.  just the ability to run a successful offense without the long ball. 

 

and brady is the most overrated player in sports history.  but that is a discussion for another day.

[liquidfriend 1,151]

That's an odd way to spell Andrew Luck

[DieHard 2,061]

I agree that he attacks mostly the short passing game, but I would not say overrated at all. He uasually does not have much as far as WRs. I can't remember the last Pro Bowl WR he had. Moss for a year or two? Last year 15 TDs to every 1 INT.

 

I want to hate the guy, but I can't deny that he is the greatest to every play the game.

[omahacolt 208]

I agree that he attacks mostly the short passing game, but I would not say overrated at all. He uasually does not have much as far as WRs. I can't remember the last Pro Bowl WR he had. Moss for a year or two? Last year 15 TDs to every 1 INT.

 

I want to hate the guy, but I can't deny that he is the greatest to every play the game.

oh you can easily deny that he is the greatest to ever play the game.  because he isn't.  not even in the top 5.

 

and the argument that he does so much for so little is wrong.  he has guys that fit his scheme and that scheme spreads the ball out.  

 

you put any decent qb on the pats and they win multiple super bowls.  

[PhataLerror 370]

i wasn't comparing brady to smith.  just their offenses.  just the ability to run a successful offense without the long ball. 

 

and brady is the most overrated player in sports history.  but that is a discussion for another day.

No one was equating Brady to Smith. It was a deliberate straw man on the part of the Smith detractors because they can't explain why Smith does 'X' and Brady does 'X' and when Brady does it it is a good thing but when Smith does it it is a bad thing.

 

That being said, Brady can be overrated, but still be one of the best football players ever. He is hands down the best football player of this generation.

[omahacolt 208]

No one was equating Brady to Smith. It was a deliberate straw man on the part of the Smith detractors because they can't explain why Smith does 'X' and Brady does 'X' and when Brady does it it is a good thing but when Smith does it it is a bad thing.

 

That being said, Brady can be overrated, but still be one of the best football players ever. He is hands down the best football player of this generation.

no

 

he absolutely is not

[liquidfriend 1,151]

Before you guys get triggered and debate oc, no Colts fan is ever gonna admit it.

[DieHard 2,061]

oh you can easily deny that he is the greatest to ever play the game. because he isn't. not even in the top 5.

 

and the argument that he does so much for so little is wrong. he has guys that fit his scheme and that scheme spreads the ball out.

 

you put any decent qb on the pats and they win multiple super bowls.

You win a Super Bowl with Troy Brown as your best WR, and you have done something. It's like with Peyton, these guys are mostly nothing before and nothing after. They are only good because of the QB. I remember seeing WR drop pass after pass in the playoffs when Brady was locked in.

 

He even makes good WR better. Moss's most productive 3 year stretch if his HOF career was with Brady.

 

You can argue that the greatest was Montana or Peyton, but Brady not even being top 5? That is quite a stretch. I don't how you could even start to support that.

 

All time

 

1st in rings

4th in yards

4th in TDs

2nd in % INTs

[PhataLerror 370]

no

 

he absolutely is not

Who would you put above him? Brady has stats and rings and film and practically any argument applied against Brady applies equally or more so against other quarterbacks.

 

If your argument is that there is a better all-around football player at any given position than Brady, I have no idea where you would start that argument.

[omahacolt 208]

You win a Super Bowl with Troy Brown as your best WR, and you have done something. It's like with Peyton, these guys are mostly nothing before and nothing after. They are only good because of the QB. I remember seeing WR drop pass after pass in the playoffs when Brady was locked in.

 

He even makes good WR better. Moss's most productive 3 year stretch if his HOF career was with Brady.

 

You can argue that the greatest was Montana or Peyton, but Brady not even being top 5? That is quite a stretch. I don't how you could even start to support that.

 

All time

 

1st in rings

4th in yards

4th in TDs

2nd in % INTs

for starters

 

1) you can throw out wins or super bowl wins.  that is not a qb stat.  that is a team stat and it is beyond absurd to think that a qb with 1 sb win is automatically better than one with 0.  you think manning or favre or marino wouldn't win a bunch of super bowls with belicheck as coach.  

 

2)  spygate.  they cheated for years.  pretty easy to win games and play good football when you know the defensive calls.  

 

3)  the wr argument is fine.  i am not saying he is absolute trash.  he made moss better.  you could also argue that they actually made moss try hard.   moss was always criticized for lack of effort.  belicheck wasnt going to have that.  

 

4)  i look at actual play on the field.  and to me, brady is a system qb.  look at the production every qb has in that system.  option routes, dump offs, an occasional deep pass.  

 

5)  that division has always been trash.  it is an easy 6 wins a year and just playing bad teams.  

[omahacolt 208]

Who would you put above him? Brady has stats and rings and film and practically any argument applied against Brady applies equally or more so against other quarterbacks.

 

If your argument is that there is a better all-around football player at any given position than Brady, I have no idea where you would start that argument.

manning for sure

 

then you can make a case for guys like polamalu, ed reed, ray lewis and revis.  aaron rodgers is a better qb.  favre was a better qb.

 

 brady is a system qb that is a product of belicheck.  he is smart and accurate.  and durable.  but as far as skills he isn't the best.  people only say he is the greatest because of team wins and rings. which are team accomplishments and not player accomplishments

[PhataLerror 370]

for starters

 

1) you can throw out wins or super bowl wins.  that is not a qb stat.  that is a team stat and it is beyond absurd to think that a qb with 1 sb win is automatically better than one with 0.  you think manning or favre or marino wouldn't win a bunch of super bowls with belicheck as coach.  

 

2)  spygate.  they cheated for years.  pretty easy to win games and play good football when you know the defensive calls.  

 

3)  the wr argument is fine.  i am not saying he is absolute trash.  he made moss better.  you could also argue that they actually made moss try hard.   moss was always criticized for lack of effort.  belicheck wasnt going to have that.  

 

4)  i look at actual play on the field.  and to me, brady is a system qb.  look at the production every qb has in that system.  option routes, dump offs, an occasional deep pass.  

 

5)  that division has always been trash.  it is an easy 6 wins a year and just playing bad teams.  

I'll give you all of these except #2 and #5.

 

• Even if the Patriots have been caught cheating, similar attempts to circumvent the rules and regulations of the NFL have been made by other teams. The list of offenses committed by teams around the league are endless. Others were suspected of cheating, but were never caught red-handed. I'm not excusing cheating. I'm also not willing to throw out several seasons of effective play by Brady that had no connection to cheating. We're not talking about steroids-era baseball here. There's too many examples of Brady tearing up teams from all quarters of the league over too many years to attribute his success to everything connected to Spygate. I'm not going to even acknowledge Deflategate as being significant.

 

• Since realignment in 2002, the Patriots have never once played in the weakest division in the league, and only six times the Patriots played within a division that ranked outside the top half of the league. Four times, the AFC East was the winningest division in the league, while in only four of those seasons the AFC East had a losing record. I'm not sure if your comparison was the AFC South (where the Colts play), but in ten out of fifteen seasons, the Patriots played in a winninger division than the Colts. You failed on this fact-check.

 

 #4 is irrelevant because all quarterbacks are by your definition system quarterbacks. It is up to the coach to leverage a quarterback's football mind and his football body to the strengths of his team and against the weaknesses of his opponent. Belichick has had extensive success with Brady not emulated anywhere in the league.

[omahacolt 208]

I'll give you all of these except #2 and #5.

 

• Even if the Patriots have been caught cheating, similar attempts to circumvent the rules and regulations of the NFL have been made by other teams. The list of offenses committed by teams around the league are endless. Others were suspected of cheating, but were never caught red-handed. I'm not excusing cheating. I'm also not willing to throw out several seasons of effective play by Brady that had no connection to cheating. We're not talking about steroids-era baseball here. There's too many examples of Brady tearing up teams from all quarters of the league over too many years to attribute his success to everything connected to Spygate. I'm not going to even acknowledge Deflategate as being significant.

 

• Since realignment in 2002, the Patriots have never once played in the weakest division in the league, and only six times the Patriots played within a division that ranked outside the top half of the league. Four times, the AFC East was the winningest division in the league, while in only four of those seasons the AFC East had a losing record. I'm not sure if your comparison was the AFC South (where the Colts play), but in ten out of fifteen seasons, the Patriots played in a winninger division than the Colts. You failed on this fact-check.

 

 #4 is irrelevant because all quarterbacks are by your definition system quarterbacks. It is up to the coach to leverage a quarterback's football mind and his football body to the strengths of his team and against the weaknesses of his opponent. Belichick has had extensive success with Brady not emulated anywhere in the league.

terrible post

 

1)  you can't discount spygate because you think other teams are trying to cheat or cheating. the patriots were cheating.  they were caught and it does mean something.  i am not saying brady was great because of spygate.  i am saying it is a factor.  how on earth you can sit there and say it was meaningless is beyond me.  

 

2)  i didn't fail to fact check.  this had nothing to do with the colts.  the afc south is and was bad for a long time.  my favorite team has nothing to do with the pats division.  the afc east is terrible and has been forever.  the jets were good for a few years.  the dolphins have never been good and neither have the bills.  those are facts.  

 

3)  not every qb is a system qb.  you can't plug and play qb's for any other team but the patriots.  you saw what happened when manning went out with the colts.  the steelers struggle to win without the rapist.  denver go from super bowl winner to not making the playoffs without manning.  

[liquidfriend 1,151]

To be fair in relation to point one.

 

All teams were stealing signals. Hell, Dungy admitted to it so why couldn't we argue that Peyton had the same advantage that Brady may of had?

[KCSLC2008 606]

Silly statement. Check out the attached video and look at air yards vs. YAC. Keep in mind he's like 60 now in his 40th year. He's had seasons with over 50 TDs and over 5000 yards. 5 Super Bowl wins. Brady has averaged 3600 yds/season. AA's best year ever was 3502 and his average is 2531. Brady has averaged 26 TDs per year AA's best year 23. He's averaged 14. So one is a Hall of Famer and the other is a dink & dunk journeyman. Comparing Brady to AA is goofy. But don't worry Peyton was a great QB.

I think it would be silly to compare Smith and Brady.

 

Taking games where Smith started and passed for more than 8 attempts (injury) and one he didn't start but had 22 attempts, he averages 204.5 yards per game - that's 3278 yards in a season. 1.26 TDs per game, 20.1 TDs per season.

 

Doing the same for Brady: 263.6 yards per game, 4217 yards. 2.03 TDs per game including rushing, 32.4 TDs per season.

 

Looking at real averages helps both QBs and still emphasizes the statistical superiority of Brady to every QB (in my opinion).

 

I don't think 2531 and 3600 is fair. Neither is 14 or 26. Brady missed nearly a whole season once and Smith has missed games. To take a season average? When real stats STILL make the same point?

 

Smith is not a journeyman yet. It takes three teams, in my opinion. And I think 5 years starting or more makes it less of a journey. If his career goes for another 3-5 years, three teams for 14-17 seasons, it seems to be in the middle of journeyman and not.

 

I mean, Favre played for three teams and NO I AM NOT CONPARING SMITH AND FAVRE. I've already had enough punishment by looking at real numbers.

[PhataLerror 370]

terrible post

 

1)  you can't discount spygate because you think other teams are trying to cheat or cheating. the patriots were cheating.  they were caught and it does mean something.  i am not saying brady was great because of spygate.  i am saying it is a factor.  how on earth you can sit there and say it was meaningless is beyond me.  

 

2)  i didn't fail to fact check.  this had nothing to do with the colts.  the afc south is and was bad for a long time.  my favorite team has nothing to do with the pats division.  the afc east is terrible and has been forever.  the jets were good for a few years.  the dolphins have never been good and neither have the bills.  those are facts.  

 

3)  not every qb is a system qb.  you can't plug and play qb's for any other team but the patriots.  you saw what happened when manning went out with the colts.  the steelers struggle to win without the rapist.  denver go from super bowl winner to not making the playoffs without manning.  

I didn't disregard Spygate. I disregarded Deflategate. However, it seems evident to me that Brady was good in games where he didn't know what plays the opposing defense was running.

 

You can't say a division isn't good when it's the winningest division and had the toughest strength of schedule since realignment. You can't say a division is terrible when it has had the third-best strength of victory out of the league's eight divisions. You talked about the AFC East as a whole, not a couple select Jets, Bills, or Dolphins teams over a few consecutive years. You are patently wrong when it comes to the AFC East.

 

Your last statement is ridiculous. If a quarterback cannot make quick reads, he cannot succeed in the Patriots' offense over a lengthy period of time. It helps to have surrounding talent, but not every quarterback could have success in the Patriots' offense on a long-term basis, and few quarterbacks could have the success Brady has had for as long as he has had it.

 

I'm not arguing against the relevance of Aaron Rodgers, Peyton Manning, or Brett Favre as being three of the best quarterbacks to play in the last 20 years, but each of those quarterbacks had some holes in their game that Brady does not have. Rodgers is not quick with his throws. Peyton Manning had plenty of "What the...?" throws to put alongside his highlight throws, while Favre was The Greater Manning² in that regard, for both good and bad. If you think that those three quarterbacks' coaches didn't tailor their offenses around those quarterbacks, we can't have a productive debate. If your argument centers on Brady being blessed with the backing of someone who will go down as one of the greatest Head Coaches ever (Bill Belichick), you have to admit also that Belichick has stuck with Brady through so many years. He didn't look to replace Brady when Peyton Manning hit free agency, and he didn't trade up to take Aaron Rodgers when Rodgers slipped to 24th in the 2005 NFL Draft.

 

In the end, Brady has a legacy unmatched by Manning, Rodgers, and Favre. It's not restricted to team achievements, largely untainted by unfair play, and not adequately explained by a lack of legitimate competition. On top of all of that, the tape says that Tom Brady is an excellent quarterback. I'm at peace with that, and I think Brady has shown enough that the burden to prove that Peyton Manning or others are better quarterbacks than Brady has to involve more than excuses as to why other quarterbacks accomplished less.

[omahacolt 208]

To be fair in relation to point one.

 

All teams were stealing signals. Hell, Dungy admitted to it so why couldn't we argue that Peyton had the same advantage that Brady may of had?

legally trying to steal signals.  within the rules

 

there is a difference