PhataLerror 370 Posted February 25, 2017 Share Posted February 25, 2017 legally trying to steal signals. within the rules there is a difference Which is why the impact of Spygate is grossly exaggerated. You're drawing a line between legal and illegal means of gaining an unfair competitive advantage. What the Patriots did was only slightly more effective than what other teams did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omahacolt 208 Posted February 25, 2017 Share Posted February 25, 2017 Which is why the impact of Spygate is grossly exaggerated. You're drawing a line between legal and illegal means of gaining an unfair competitive advantage. What the Patriots did was only slightly more effective than what other teams did. and how do you know that? oh wait. you don't Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhataLerror 370 Posted February 25, 2017 Share Posted February 25, 2017 and how do you know that? oh wait. you don't Film made all the difference? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liquidfriend 1,151 Posted February 25, 2017 Share Posted February 25, 2017 legally trying to steal signals. within the rules there is a difference The only difference is they kept doing it after Roger said stop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azchief21 5,278 Posted February 26, 2017 Share Posted February 26, 2017 no he absolutely is not Let me guess...Peyton? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azchief21 5,278 Posted February 26, 2017 Share Posted February 26, 2017 for starters 1) you can throw out wins or super bowl wins. that is not a qb stat. that is a team stat and it is beyond absurd to think that a qb with 1 sb win is automatically better than one with 0. you think manning or favre or marino wouldn't win a bunch of super bowls with belicheck as coach. Not one SB. 5 wins and 7 appearances. Bellicheat was a loser without him. 2) spygate. they cheated for years. pretty easy to win games and play good football when you know the defensive calls. For 17 years? 3) the wr argument is fine. i am not saying he is absolute trash. he made moss better. you could also argue that they actually made moss try hard. moss was always criticized for lack of effort. belicheck wasnt going to have that. He made millionaires out of average WRs 4) i look at actual play on the field. and to me, brady is a system qb. look at the production every qb has in that system. option routes, dump offs, an occasional deep pass. Cassel had a better season in KC w/o Bellicheat than he did in NE. The season Cassel had with NE would have easily been one of Brady's worst. In Brady's first season as starter, NE won SB. Cassel didn't make playoffs. 5) that division has always been trash. it is an easy 6 wins a year and just playing bad teams. They didn't play those division teams on the way to all those Super Bowls. Comparing Cassel or Smith to Brady. Wow. Man o Man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omahacolt 208 Posted February 26, 2017 Share Posted February 26, 2017 for starters 1) you can throw out wins or super bowl wins. that is not a qb stat. that is a team stat and it is beyond absurd to think that a qb with 1 sb win is automatically better than one with 0. you think manning or favre or marino wouldn't win a bunch of super bowls with belicheck as coach. Not one SB. 5 wins and 7 appearances. Bellicheat was a loser without him. 2) spygate. they cheated for years. pretty easy to win games and play good football when you know the defensive calls. For 17 years? 3) the wr argument is fine. i am not saying he is absolute trash. he made moss better. you could also argue that they actually made moss try hard. moss was always criticized for lack of effort. belicheck wasnt going to have that. He made millionaires out of average WRs 4) i look at actual play on the field. and to me, brady is a system qb. look at the production every qb has in that system. option routes, dump offs, an occasional deep pass. Cassel had a better season in KC w/o Bellicheat than he did in NE. The season Cassel had with NE would have easily been one of Brady's worst. In Brady's first season as starter, NE won SB. Cassel didn't make playoffs. 5) that division has always been trash. it is an easy 6 wins a year and just playing bad teams. They didn't play those division teams on the way to all those Super Bowls. Comparing Cassel or Smith to Brady. Wow. Man o Man i never compared any of those guys to brady. and for the rest of your post well. it is just dumb espn fanboy nonsense. failure to actually evaluate things deeper than face value Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omahacolt 208 Posted February 26, 2017 Share Posted February 26, 2017 Let me guess...Peyton? best qb i ever saw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azchief21 5,278 Posted February 26, 2017 Share Posted February 26, 2017 i never compared any of those guys to brady. and for the rest of your post well. it is just dumb espn fanboy nonsense. failure to actually evaluate things deeper than face value I'm not a fan of Brady's. I was hoping they'd lose in the SB. I hate all opposing QBs. It's just silly when somebody tries to degrade one of the best ever to try to elevate their man crush. But hey I think Manning is absolutely one of the best ever. Had a tendency to fold like a lawn chair in the playoffs though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omahacolt 208 Posted February 26, 2017 Share Posted February 26, 2017 I'm not a fan of Brady's. I was hoping they'd lose in the SB. I hate all opposing QBs. It's just silly when somebody tries to degrade one of the best ever to try to elevate their man crush. But hey I think Manning is absolutely one of the best ever. Had a tendency to fold like a lawn chair in the playoffs though. perfect espn bullshit mentality. a guy that actually didn't watch but just spews what they are fed. look up their playoff stats. look up head to head in afc champ games (i think this is meaningless but people like you like this nonsense) look up their defenses. football is a team game. but hey you won't hear that listening to mike and mike every morning now will youl. why is brady considered the best ever? his super bowl rings. that is it. was brady the best qb in the league when he won his first 3? when they were cheating by the way. no he wasn't. not ever close. they won because the patriots cheated, were a defensive team, and had the best coach to ever stand on a sideline. and the story is manning choked in the playoffs. do you know when that talk started? do you? it was in college. he lost 1 playoff game in his second year and the he can't win a big game got drilled into everyones head. and it never left. all everyone heard was he was a choker and couldnt win the big game. and then guess what. he won the big game. but it never left. that was still stuck with him. because morons kept repeating it because they are fucking brainwashed by espn. teams dont like facing the patriots. you would hear them talk about it. but when you heard about the colts, it was that they didnt want to face manning. you want to know who is the best ever? ask the dc who he didn't want to face. it won't be tom fucking brady Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azchief21 5,278 Posted February 26, 2017 Share Posted February 26, 2017 perfect espn bullshit mentality. a guy that actually didn't watch but just spews what they are fed. look up their playoff stats. look up head to head in afc champ games (i think this is meaningless but people like you like this nonsense) look up their defenses. football is a team game. but hey you won't hear that listening to mike and mike every morning now will youl. why is brady considered the best ever? his super bowl rings. that is it. was brady the best qb in the league when he won his first 3? when they were cheating by the way. no he wasn't. not ever close. they won because the patriots cheated, were a defensive team, and had the best coach to ever stand on a sideline. and the story is manning choked in the playoffs. do you know when that talk started? do you? it was in college. he lost 1 playoff game in his second year and the he can't win a big game got drilled into everyones head. and it never left. all everyone heard was he was a choker and couldnt win the big game. and then guess what. he won the big game. but it never left. that was still stuck with him. because morons kept repeating it because they are fucking brainwashed by espn. teams dont like facing the patriots. you would hear them talk about it. but when you heard about the colts, it was that they didnt want to face manning. you want to know who is the best ever? ask the dc who he didn't want to face. it won't be tom fucking brady You're a little sensitive about your boy. Reminds me of someone. I've already said Manning was one of the best ever. I think Brady is better. Just an opinion. Relax. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieHard 2,061 Posted February 26, 2017 Share Posted February 26, 2017 i never compared any of those guys to brady. and for the rest of your post well. it is just dumb espn fanboy nonsense. failure to actually evaluate things deeper than face value Just slowly back away. You are a smart guy that has good takes. This just wasn't one of them. I won't like the guy either, but to say he is not in the top 5 is, well, as a friend of mine would say, lunacy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer 8,687 Posted February 26, 2017 Share Posted February 26, 2017 Just slowly back away. You are a smart guy that has good takes. This just wasn't one of them. I won't like the guy either, but to say he is not in the top 5 is, well, as a friend of mine would say, lunacy. YEP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omahacolt 208 Posted February 26, 2017 Share Posted February 26, 2017 Just slowly back away. You are a smart guy that has good takes. This just wasn't one of them. I won't like the guy either, but to say he is not in the top 5 is, well, as a friend of mine would say, lunacy. i don't think he is top 5 i don't think it is lunacy at all. i have watched them for years and he is a great qb but not a top 5 of all time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kccrow 529 Posted February 26, 2017 Share Posted February 26, 2017 In terms of actual QB play, I'd probably have the following order: 1. Peyton Manning - Before his neck injury there wasn't a throw he couldn't make, and he is likely the best ever at reading defenses pre and post-snap. Nobody was ever consistently as good for as long in NFL history. 2. Dan Marino - He may not of won a Super Bowl, but the guy was throwing for 5,000 yards when others were maxing out at 3,500 and he could put the ball anywhere on a dime. 3. Aaron Rodgers - Uncanny ability to make every throw on the field from awkward angles and is the best I've ever seen at buying time and maintaining focus down the field. 4. Tom Brady - Rarely rattled and plays within his offense, always taking what's given and surgically carving up defenses, the main reason he has more SB wins than anyone else. 5. Joe Montana - Like Brady, an absolute surgeon that was cool as a cucumber, pushing the ball when needed and generally taking whatever the defense would give. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieHard 2,061 Posted February 26, 2017 Share Posted February 26, 2017 I have the same 5 except Brees over Rogers. I have Peyton and Marino lower on the list. Peyton was amazing in the regular season, but not very good in the playoffs. He could become a interception machine under pressure. I will never forget the 3 he threw to law when we played them. The complete melt down against Seattle. There are many examples. I think when you talk about GOAT, playoffs sudden death atmosphere is more telling than regular season stats. Marino put up big numbers, but Clayton and Duper were amazing. The best dou I remember. I have to put Montana and Brady at the top. It's a judgement call, but they were money when the pressure was the highest. Fun thing to debate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azchief21 5,278 Posted February 26, 2017 Share Posted February 26, 2017 Brady Montana Manning Rodgers Marino, Brees (Tie) Couldn't leave either off the list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieHard 2,061 Posted February 26, 2017 Share Posted February 26, 2017 I think Rogers is probably the best right now, but he is only 23rd all time in yards and only has 1 SB. I think he will get in the GOAT conversation, but hasn't earned that spot yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azchief21 5,278 Posted February 26, 2017 Share Posted February 26, 2017 I think Rogers is probably the best right now, but he is only 23rd all time in yards and only has 1 SB. I think he will get in the GOAT conversation, but hasn't earned that spot yet. Good point. I guess I get blinded by the throws he is capable of making. Nobody is capable of throwing some of the passes he's thrown. Don't think it's too much of a stretch to think we would have one maybe two Super Bowls with any one of these guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieHard 2,061 Posted February 26, 2017 Share Posted February 26, 2017 Yeah, the guy is crazy good right now and has many years left. I bet he retires with 3 or 4 rings. And he is another guy without a great line or great WRs. It's funny that the GOAT list is guys we have been watching recently. I am worried the greats are not being replaced by young players. Only Montana can rank with the elites of the last 5-10 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azchief21 5,278 Posted February 26, 2017 Share Posted February 26, 2017 Yeah, the guy is crazy good right now and has many years left. I bet he retires with 3 or 4 rings. And he is another guy without a great line or great WRs. It's funny that the GOAT list is guys we have been watching recently. I am worried the greats are not being replaced by young players. Only Montana can rank with the elites of the last 5-10 years. With all the wimpy rules put in place for the QBs and WRs, it's not really fair to the old school QBs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omahacolt 208 Posted February 26, 2017 Share Posted February 26, 2017 I have the same 5 except Brees over Rogers. I have Peyton and Marino lower on the list. Peyton was amazing in the regular season, but not very good in the playoffs. He could become a interception machine under pressure. I will never forget the 3 he threw to law when we played them. The complete melt down against Seattle. There are many examples. I think when you talk about GOAT, playoffs sudden death atmosphere is more telling than regular season stats. Marino put up big numbers, but Clayton and Duper were amazing. The best dou I remember. I have to put Montana and Brady at the top. It's a judgement call, but they were money when the pressure was the highest. Fun thing to debate. that is a misconception compare his stats to brady. of course manning struggled more in the playoffs. usually going up against great defenses in the playoffs, qb's stats drop significantly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SEMO 6,811 Posted February 26, 2017 Share Posted February 26, 2017 With all the wimpy rules put in place for the QBs and WRs, it's not really fair to the old school QBs. That's the same point I was going to make. You really have to separate them into old school and new school. Guys like Bradshaw are not looked at in the group of the greatest of all time. But, he was calling his own plays and winning Superbowls. Granted, he had a great defense. I wouldn't put him in the top five, but he is top ten. My list: Brady Montana Manning Rogers Favre Marino Elway Brees Warner Bradshaw . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omahacolt 208 Posted February 26, 2017 Share Posted February 26, 2017 That's the same point I was going to make. You really have to separate them into old school and new school. Guys like Bradshaw are not looked at in the group of the greatest of all time. But, he was calling his own plays and winning Superbowls. Granted, he had a great defense. I wouldn't put him in the top five, but he is top ten. My list: Brady Montana Manning Rogers Favre Marino Elway Brees Warner Bradshaw . super bowl wins and wins are not a qb stat. no matter how much espn wants you to believe it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieHard 2,061 Posted February 26, 2017 Share Posted February 26, 2017 super bowl wins and wins are not a qb stat. no matter how much espn wants you to believe it. True, but you have to admit that the competition and prsseure is much higher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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