eraser 722 Posted February 25, 2017 Share Posted February 25, 2017 Tyrann Mathieu is the highest paid "safety". He is really more of a corner back, and paid as such. Let's say Eric Berry is worth that much money. I have serious doubts about that, but it is probably close to what Berry's agent is asking. Well, we should look at what that would do to the Chiefs' cap. https://overthecap.com/player/tyrann-mathieu/2450/ Tyrann Mathieu signed a five year, $62.5 million extension with the Cardinals on August 2, 2016. All the salary cap data here is being calcuated based on a report from PFT which gives the breakdown of the contract. $21.25 million of the contract is fully guaranteed upon signing. The guarantee includes a $15.5 million signing bonus and Mathieu’s 2016 and 2017 base salaries. If Mathieu is on the roster on the first day of the 2018 league year he will earn a $5 million roster bonus and guarantee his entire 2018 salary and $8 million of his 2019 salary. If Mathieu is named the defensive player of the year he will earn a $250,000 incentive each time that occurs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eraser 722 Posted February 25, 2017 Share Posted February 25, 2017 Here is where you can go to fill in those numbers to see the way it affects the Chiefs' cap numbers https://overthecap.com/calculator/kansas-city-chiefs/ 2017 Eric Berry Base Sal Pro Bonus Roster B Wrkout B Cap # Dead $ Cap Gain/Loss S 7 $1,000,000 $1,000,000 $3,100,000 $101,407 $70,000 $4,271,407 $32,000,000 ($27,728,593) 2018 Eric Berry S 8 $4,750,000 $4,750,000 $3,100,000 $0 $250,000 $8,100,000 $27,900,000 ($19,800,000) 2019 Eric Berry S 9 $5,750,000 $0 $3,100,000 $5,000,000 $250,000 $14,100,000 $20,050,000 ($5,950,000) 2020 Eric Berry S 10 $10,750,000 $10,750,000 $3,100,000 $0 $250,000 $11,850,000 $16,950,000 $9,390,000 2021 Eric Berry S 11 $9,250,000 $0 $3,100,000 $0 $250,000 $12,600,000 $3,100,000 $9,500,000 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eraser 722 Posted February 25, 2017 Share Posted February 25, 2017 Now for Poe According to PFF Poe is ranked 6th in the NFL for NT. He is ahead of Vince Wilfork, and behind Ian Williams. The next four are Bennie Logan, Damon Harrison, Linval Joseph, and Brandon Williams (who ranked #1). Vince Wilfork is relatively a bargain for the Texans. Vince Wilfork signed a 2 year, $9,000,000 contract with the Houston Texans, including a $3,000,000 signing bonus, $5,000,000 guaranteed, and an average annual salary of $4,500,000. However, Wilfork is now a FA, and 35 years old. Ian Williams was even more of a value for the 49ers. He an UDFA taken by SF in 2011. So, he was developed on this team, and was on a one year contract for 2016. His salary was $1M, he made a $2M roster bonus, and another $2M bonus for making incentives. He was well worth the $4 M, but is now a Free Agent, and will be vying for a contract along with Poe. Bennie Logan - Bennie Logan signed a 4 year, $3,032,432 contract with the Philadelphia Eagles, including a $684,092 signing bonus, $684,092 guaranteed, and an average annual salary of $758,108. With incentives, Logan had a cap hit of $1,842,023 for 2016. However, just as with Poe, Wilkfork, and Williams, Logan is a FA for 2017. Damon Harrison - The first real guide for how much to value Dontari Poe. Damon Harrison signed a 5 year, $46,250,000 contract with the New York Giants, including a $8,000,000 signing bonus, $24,000,000 guaranteed, and an average annual salary of $9,250,000. In 2017, Harrison will earn a base salary of $8,750,000 and a workout bonus of $250,000. Harrison has a cap hit of $10,600,000 while his dead money value is $13,650,000. Linval Joseph - Joseph is nearing the end of his rookie contract, but has one more year before he is due to be a free agent. Joseph was a 2nd round pick in 2010. Linval Joseph signed a 5 year, $31,250,000 contract with the Minnesota Vikings, including a $3,000,000 signing bonus, $12,500,000 guaranteed, and an average annual salary of $6,250,000. In 2017, Joseph will earn a base salary of $6,150,000 and a workout bonus of $100,000. Joseph has a cap hit of $6,850,000 while his dead money value is $1,200,000. So, there is really no good comparison other than their rookie contracts. Brandon Williams - Was a 3rd round pick in 2013. Brandon Williams signed a 4 year, $2,675,000 contract with the Baltimore Ravens, including a $515,000 signing bonus, $515,000 guaranteed, and an average annual salary of $668,750. As with Poe, Williams will become a FA, and be looking for his first big payout. Italicized print is to indicate information that was sourced from Sportrac http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/ Poe is said to want a contract worth upwards around $13.5 M per year. That seems to be close to the amount paid out to Gerald McCoy. Per Sportrac Gerald McCoy signed a 6 year, $95,200,000 contract with the Tampa Bay Buccaneers, including a $2,500,000 signing bonus, $51,500,000 guaranteed, and an average annual salary of $15,866,667. In 2017, McCoy will earn a base salary of $13,250,000. McCoy has a cap hit of $13,750,000 while his dead money value is $14,250,000 If so, Poe will be impossible to fit under the Chiefs' cap. McCoy's contract is not backloaded in order to get a reprieve from paying out an initial high cap number. In fact, McCoy's contract is fairly steady with a cap hit between a low of $12.5 M in 2020, and a high of $13.75 M in 2016. Contracts have risen by about 7.5% per year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kccrow 529 Posted February 25, 2017 Share Posted February 25, 2017 You'd better believe Poe's agent thinks it matters. You're fucking retarded, jesus fuck man. Nobody is going to pay Poe more money because of 3 gimmick plays in a season. Holy fuck kid, get a clue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhataLerror 370 Posted February 25, 2017 Share Posted February 25, 2017 Tyrann Mathieu is the highest paid "safety". He is really more of a corner back, and paid as such. Let's say Eric Berry is worth that much money. I have serious doubts about that, but it is probably close to what Berry's agent is asking. Well, we should look at what that would do to the Chiefs' cap. I've never understood Berry to be a safety that could play cornerback, but I'm not absolutely certain about that. Poe and Berry aren't the only contracts that are coming up for free agency: What about Jaye Howard? Laurent Duvernay-Tardif? Dee Ford? Mitch Morse? Steven Nelson? Chris Conley? Alex Smith? Injuries may ultimately necessitate mid-level free agent pickups for the linebacker corps. I like Berry. I don't like his cap number. I like Poe less. I don't like his cap number. I did like Howard's cap number. Ford might also be open to a short-term contract that similarly gives him an opportunity to improve on his reputation. The Chiefs need to find value at all of their positions, not best-in-league at a handful of spots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieHard 2,061 Posted February 26, 2017 Share Posted February 26, 2017 I have been trying to figure out how much Poe I rewatched the Pitts playoff loss. Poe is not good. First Pitt drive, he only got 2 snaps and was handled easily by a single blocker. Second drive, he saw 1st and 2nd down action. 3rd drive a little more action. To this point he had onl drawn 2 double teams. There was arguably a 3rd where he got a quick chip by a G that went on to block a LB. 2nd and 1 on the 49 yard line. Pouncey took Poe backwards off the LOS where I think he got an assist after a 7 yard gain. The next play Poe was escorted 10 yards down the LOS while Bell ran right through where he was. He was pulled for a for a few plays, then came in and got some pretty good push against a double team. Next play he was handled easily by a single guard. Next play singled then FG. Poe started 16 games and ended up with roughly the same stats as Howard who started 4. Poe 2016 NT with 16 starts: 27 combined tackles 1.5 sacks Howard NT/DE with 13 starts: 57 combined tackles 5.5 sacks You pay your second best NT 10 mill a year, much less 12 or 14. This is a no brainer to me. Steady decline and lingering back problems. Poe is done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robgar 1,046 Posted February 28, 2017 Share Posted February 28, 2017 chiefs may be looking at a non exclusive tag on poe now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eraser 722 Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 chiefs may be looking at a non exclusive tag on poe now. I think that is the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liquidfriend 1,151 Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 They're gonna have to create about 15 million in cap space to afford that tag and rookies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eraser 722 Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 Ndamukong Suh 4-3 DT 6 years, $113.375 M, $19.0625 M average and $59.95 M guaranteed Fletcher Cox 4-3 DT 6 years, $102.6 M, $17.17 M average and $63 M guaranteed Marcell Dareus 3-4 DT 6 years, $96.574 M, $16.1 M average and $60 M guaranteed Gerald McCoy 4-3 DT 7 years, $95.2 M, $15.87M average and $51.5 M guaranteed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robgar 1,046 Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 12 million + in cap space was created today I am also reading that the chiefs have chosen not to franchise poe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer 8,686 Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 12 million + in cap space was created today I am also reading that the chiefs have chosen not to franchise poe WHB is running with that as well... Good is all I can say Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NChiefsCorner 496 Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 Poe is now a free agent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ATLchief 3,126 Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 Defensive fat-bodies are notorious for shitting the bed after getting big money. Let 'em walk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilkie 1,518 Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 Shelf life of a defensive lineman can be really short. There really never was any choice whether to keep Berry or Poe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eraser 722 Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 This is a good year for DL in the draft, and there will be plenty of them in FA. Baltimore did not franchise their NT. I am sure the thinking is the same. This is a buyer's market, and the Chiefs should be in the driver's seat to find a DT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liquidfriend 1,151 Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 Nose Tackles don't get franchised because contracts like Suh are factored into the figure. Space eaters really don't command 13+ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eraser 722 Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 Nose Tackles don't get franchised because contracts like Suh are factored into the figure. Space eaters really don't command 13+ Suh was really more of a hybrid. Poe had that potential when he was young, but I think his best is in the rear view mirror. He was already slowing down, but when he hurt his back he seemed to be a little less sudden off the start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DefensiveMan 758 Posted March 3, 2017 Author Share Posted March 3, 2017 Why don't they just franchise him? Is there a limit on franchise tags?.... Not sure how it works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liquidfriend 1,151 Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 Why don't they just franchise him? Is there a limit on franchise tags?.... Not sure how it works.They would need about ten million in cap space to make a tag happen. They don't have it. As for Suh, he's pretty one dimensional. He's a gap shooter and damn good at it; Miami tried to 2 gap him primarily early on and it was a disaster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eraser 722 Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 Why don't they just franchise him? Is there a limit on franchise tags?.... Not sure how it works. They don't believe he is worth the franchise amount for one year. Plus, coming up with that kind of money will strap the team. It is possible he will get no better offers, but I doubt it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieHard 2,061 Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 Why don't they just franchise him? Is there a limit on franchise tags?.... Not sure how it works. Not worth the money IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calichief 3,016 Posted March 4, 2017 Share Posted March 4, 2017 My thoughts on Poe- Great guy and has been a model citizen. That being said, He never ever impacted the game the way Raji, Wilfork, or Sapp did. He didn't even have the impact of Suh who I still think is overrated. I wish him well but I personally think Howard will be better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eraser 722 Posted March 4, 2017 Share Posted March 4, 2017 Poe will probably not get a $100 M contract. I think he is worth $6 - 8M per year over 3 years, with a voidable 4th year. His drop off in sacks etc, plus injury to back are going to hold teams back. He is great in spots, but also has trouble controlling double teams. Poe had 4 times as may snaps as Reyes, but had 1/2 fewer sacks, and 6 fewer tackles. Even if you were to base it upon game appearances, the Chiefs got much more bang from Reyes as they did from Poe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieHard 2,061 Posted March 4, 2017 Share Posted March 4, 2017 Poe is no Howard. I sure hope Howard stays healthy. He is much better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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