eraser 722 Posted March 19, 2017 Author Share Posted March 19, 2017 Proper response. WR good. Ugh. Need long term QB. Ugh. Draft QB this or next year good. Ugh ugh. out Yep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DefensiveMan 758 Posted March 19, 2017 Share Posted March 19, 2017 http://arrowheadaddict.com/2017/03/18/2017-nfl-mock-draft-chiefs-adoree-jackson-usc/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liquidfriend 1,151 Posted March 19, 2017 Share Posted March 19, 2017 I like Jackson as a prospect, but I just don't think he'd have a role here as the roles he would fill (slot corner, returner) are already filled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eraser 722 Posted March 19, 2017 Author Share Posted March 19, 2017 I don't have an issue with the Chiefs drafting a corner, but I think that may not be the best use of a round 1 pick. The Chiefs' secondary was not as bad as the stats. The problem was the OLB, and the middle part of the defense. Starting at NT, teams gashed the defense, which caused corners and safeties to move up. This made them cover more area, and it showed up in yards given up. However, the secondary was not gashed on long plays as much as in the past. I believe Poe is injured. He was great in 2014. After the back injury, he could not push or consistently control the middle. Loss of DJ hurt a lot. When DJ could not put pressure up the middle. DJ was hurt, but played through the pain. The drop off in talent was enormous. Even though DJ was slowed up with injuries, his replacements were much, much worse. Houston looked good against Denver. That was it. Did he come back too soon? Will his knee respond better in 2017? Ford was good early, but teams learned he was a one trick pony, and he did nothing in the second half. Tamba Hali played with a lot of heart, but his knee is just screwed up so bad. He has bone on bone on one of his knees. I have had those issues since I was 25, and was told to quit sports. Once arthritis became more intense (mostly my left knee), I gave up sports. I was a shell of my previous self well before I quit. I don't know how he is doing it. My guess is he is on lots of medicine, which is not good. Bailey, and Howard were hurt, and missed most of the season. The depth was not good enough to handle these injuries. Without the ability to stop the run, the Chiefs had to play a two dimensional game. Because they could not pressure the middle, it was easy for quarterbacks to step up into a clean pocket. Our outside linebackers were injured, or not good enough to provide pressure from the outside. Summation: Our secondary did a much better job than it seemed. The bigger issues were pressure up the middle, and from the outside. The Chiefs have a ton of young talent in the secondary, and their coaches have been exceptional at developing talent. I anticipate White, Murray, and Nelson to improve. If Gaines can recover from his knee injury, the Chiefs will have three exceptional corners. Even if he fails to return to health, Terrance Mitchell, and Acker can defend quick routes. Both Berry, and Parker cover tremendous territory. Berry runs 4.4, and Parker is a 4.35 40 guy. That is rare speed for safeties. They can cover an expansive amount of territory. That is why teams seldom beat the Chiefs deep. Chiefs need a WILL (if DJ is not able to return healthy). They may need a MIKE (if Ramik Wilson fails to improve) However, March-Lillard got into the weight room, and put on 20 lbs of muscle since coming to the league. He has great instincts. Although he is not fast, he plays fast. I think he is your MIKE, but Wilson will have a say in that. D J Alexander showed flashes of improvement. It just takes time to get these guys up to speed, even if they are top picks. Alexander is fairly fast, and very quick for his size. He seems to be a decent WILL. The biggest need for the Chiefs was at NT. They may have fixed that for this year. Logan has improved every year, and was much better than Poe in every aspect (against the pass, and especially against the run. The Chiefs may want to develop a NT for the future, especially since Logan only signed a one year contract. RNR is improving. His motor is nonstop, and he plays much faster on the field than on the track. Bailey, and Howard will return from injury. That leaves OLB. I believe that is the biggest need in the draft for their defense. Dadi Nicolas may be an answer. He needs to gain weight. However, he played DE in college at 230 lbs, and did not suck. I would like to see Nicolas play at 245, but he showed the NFL was not too big of a jump. Ford sucked in the second half. Tamba Hali had to play too much. If Houston can return at 100% of his 2015 form, the Chiefs will have one of the best 3-4 LOLB in the league. However, even with Nicolas, Ford, and Tamba, they do not have a quality starter at ROLB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eraser 722 Posted March 19, 2017 Author Share Posted March 19, 2017 He is probably not a 1st round talent, but T J Watt would be an interesting pick. I sure would like to see what he can learn from Houston, and Hali. J J Watt was a lot better prospect in the draft, and ended up going #11 to the Texans. The Chiefs traded back with Cleveland from 21 to 27. Time expired on the Ravens. The Chiefs ran to the podium, and picked Jonathan Baldwin in front of Baltimore. I wish they had a few more minutes to contemplate that pick. Baldwin was horrible, could have done better. Their second pick was for Rodney Hudson. In the trade with Cleveland, KC got a 3rd round pick, which turned into Justin Houston. People thought I was nuts. I wanted the Chiefs to move up to around 15, where I suspected J J Watt would go. He didn't last that long. Baldwin was who the Chiefs settled for. I liked Cobb, but was also a fan of Carimi (miss), and Kaepernick (miss again). We never know how these things will work out. However, T J is a gym rat. The 21 reps was a bit weak (ranked 8th of all LB), but the other events were superb for a man his size. 37 inches vertical, and 128 inches broad tells me he is explosive out the gate. The 40 time means a lot less to me than his 10 yard split. Unfortunately, the NFL did not provide his split time. It may not have been accurate, but I used an app on my phone to get an approximate time, and I am sure it was 1.60 or faster. I did it several times, got an average, and then used 1.60 as a standard, and recorded where he was at the 1.60 mark. I had him a little beyond 10 yards at 1.60. That is one of the fastest times of any LB at the combine. He obviously lost time. By the 20 yard mark he was slowing, and at 40 yards, he ranked just 12th fastest of all line backers this year. I don't care about the 40. The vertical jump, broad jump, and 10 yard split tell me how explosive the player is out of a stance. He ranked 1 or 2 in each of those. The 3 cone, 20 yard shuttle, and 60 yard shuttle are good tests to determine how mobile a player is. He finished either 1 or 2 in each of those categories. Compared to Dee Ford 250 lb reps Ford was stronger 29 to 21 T J needs to get bigger, and stronger. 40 yard dash Ford was faster 4.53 to 4.7 means nothing 10 yard dash Watt was quicker 1.6 to 1.67 very important *** 20 yard shuttle Watt was quicker 4.13 to 4.71 ****** tells me everything I want to know about Watt vs Ford 60 yard shuttle Watt ran an impressive 11.20. Dee Ford's time was not recorded, but nothing tells me he was close vertical leap Watt jumped higher 37 inches vs 35 1/2 speaks to Watt's explosive first step. broad jump Watt jumped 128 inches vs 124 inches. Again, Watt is explosive with his legs 3 cone Watt was 6.79 vs 7.07 Really speaks to Watt's advantage in mobility and quickness T J Watt was the fastest (by far) in the 60 yard shuttle for linebackers. He was 8th best overall. Other than Christian McCaffrey (running back), the six others who were faster were either cornerbacks or wideouts. The ONLY LB that definitively beat TJ Watt in time trials was Von Miller 40 yard dash 4.53 (4.69 for Watt) 10 yard split 1.57 (unofficially, nearly identical) 20 yard split 2.57 (I had Watt at 2.7, 2.75) 20 shuttle 4.06 (4.13 for Watt) 3 cone 6.70 (6.79 for Watt) Vertical 37 inches *(same for Watt) Broad Jump 126 inches *(128 inches for Watt) reps at 250 21 reps *(21 reps for Watt) Watt measured 1 3/8 inches taller, and 6 lbs heavier than Von Miller Von Miller has 33 1/2 inch arms to 33 1/8 for Watt Watt has 11 inch hands to 9 1/4 for Von Miller I think people are underrating T J Watt just like they did in 2011 with his brother. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetlord 10,209 Posted March 19, 2017 Share Posted March 19, 2017 You build your offense around your QB and until they have a new starting QB, you're building the offense around Alex. Yes and if you like Mahomes enough to pick at 35, why not just take him 8 picks earlier if it's the difference between getting him and not getting him? Especially considering the cost of big time QB contracts, giving up that extra team option year would be completely baffling from a cap point. The idea is to get Mahomes and a first round pick rather than Mahomes and a second round pick. People more in the know than anyone here have a pretty good feel for how the draft will fall out. If the Chiefs feel they can trade up in the second to get Mahomes and that's who they want, it makes more sense than to spend their first and miss out on a starting ILB. They also know how much drop off there is between Mahomes and whoever would be next in line at QB on their draft chart. Maybe it just isn't that clear that Mahomes is the best choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DefensiveMan 758 Posted March 19, 2017 Share Posted March 19, 2017 A lot of people have Charles Harris being taken at 16 by the Ravens. He's slowly crept his way up the boards. He's still the best OLB in this draft IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieHard 2,061 Posted March 19, 2017 Share Posted March 19, 2017 I don't know who they like. I don't see them trading up. Doesn't seem like their style. Especially if the guy they like goes top 10. They sure won't do it because fans want it. I honestly see them going BPA or trading down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetlord 10,209 Posted March 19, 2017 Share Posted March 19, 2017 One of the interesting things about discussion boards and mock drafts is that there's always at least 40 players who "won't last" until #27. I was pretty good at math but never could figure out how that works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liquidfriend 1,151 Posted March 19, 2017 Share Posted March 19, 2017 The idea is to get Mahomes and a first round pick rather than Mahomes and a second round pick. People more in the know than anyone here have a pretty good feel for how the draft will fall out. If the Chiefs feel they can trade up in the second to get Mahomes and that's who they want, it makes more sense than to spend their first and miss out on a starting ILB. They also know how much drop off there is between Mahomes and whoever would be next in line at QB on their draft chart. Maybe it just isn't that clear that Mahomes is the best choice. No. If you get a shot at a QB you really like and he fits your system, take the QB. If they don't feel clear that Mahomes is the right choice, than they shouldn't take Mahomes. This isn't rocket science. They're not going to miss out on a high quality starting ILB because the draft is short of those that fit well into this Defense. The secret to building success in the NFL is to load talent around a good, young QB before you have to start doling out the big bucks (Seattle with Wilson, Oakland with Carr). The longer they can kick the can down the road without handing out the big cash, the better. 8 spots of draft positioning isn't worth 30 million. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xen 1,010,220 Posted March 19, 2017 Share Posted March 19, 2017 A lot of people have Charles Harris being taken at 16 by the Ravens. He's slowly crept his way up the boards. He's still the best OLB in this draft IMO. He looked really smooth in the LB drills at the combine. Heck of a player. I like him or watt if we go OLB in the first, which I am not opposed to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liquidfriend 1,151 Posted March 19, 2017 Share Posted March 19, 2017 I think TJ Watt projects better for the elephant role after he spends some time in nfl weight training program and adds the power to his move moveset Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetlord 10,209 Posted March 20, 2017 Share Posted March 20, 2017 No. If you get a shot at a QB you really like and he fits your system, take the QB. If they don't feel clear that Mahomes is the right choice, than they shouldn't take Mahomes. This isn't rocket science. They're not going to miss out on a high quality starting ILB because the draft is short of those that fit well into this Defense. The secret to building success in the NFL is to load talent around a good, young QB before you have to start doling out the big bucks (Seattle with Wilson, Oakland with Carr). The longer they can kick the can down the road without handing out the big cash, the better. 8 spots of draft positioning isn't worth 30 million. Don't disagree. But there no reason to take the QB that will last to #45 in the first round if the team has three extra picks they can package to move up in round two. It's all up to the staff to determine which, if any, QB they want, how much they are willing to invest, and how long he'll be on the board. It's all up to us to predict and second guess with about 10% of the knowledge of the staff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liquidfriend 1,151 Posted March 20, 2017 Share Posted March 20, 2017 Don't disagree. But there no reason to take the QB that will last to #45 in the first round if the team has three extra picks they can package to move up in round two. It's all up to the staff to determine which, if any, QB they want, how much they are willing to invest, and how long he'll be on the board. It's all up to us to predict and second guess with about 10% of the knowledge of the staff. Quality starting QB's are such a hot commodity that they don't follow traditional ideology anymore, at least in my opinion. I think you have to overdraft them some. If we're talking about drafting a QB multiple rounds early, or at least a good full round early than yes I would agree with your stance. The demand for QB's is just so stupid anymore that you can watch some god awful tape, like Christian Hackenberg at Penn St, and they will still go early 2nd in the draft. I think a lot of these QB's are more Round 2 prospects, but you have to weigh for demand and take 'em in the first if you need to get one. That will go for any draft really, until the rules for Defense are scaled back majorly (not gonna happen). The value with a Mahomes or a Kizer is good enough late first imo. Just comes down to if you like the QB or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhataLerror 370 Posted March 20, 2017 Share Posted March 20, 2017 The secret to building success in the NFL is to load talent around a good, young QB before you have to start doling out the big bucks (Seattle with Wilson, Oakland with Carr). The longer they can kick the can down the road without handing out the big cash, the better. So how many quarterbacks have won a Super Bowl on their rookie contract? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eraser 722 Posted March 20, 2017 Author Share Posted March 20, 2017 So how many quarterbacks have won a Super Bowl on their rookie contract? Roethlisberger (twice), Montana, Brady (twice), Wilson, Namath, Aikman, Bradshaw, and McMahaon. About 20% chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhataLerror 370 Posted March 20, 2017 Share Posted March 20, 2017 Roethlisberger (twice), Montana, Brady (twice), Wilson, Namath, Aikman, Bradshaw, and McMahaon. About 20% chance. Eli Manning, too. Still, that's not a particularly glowing endorsement for the school of "Elite Young Quarterbacks on Cheap Contracts". If anything, it looks like the Seahawks are increasingly distanced from a future Super Bowl win for as long as they are paying Wilson almost $20 million per year. Maybe Wilson wasn't the primary reason they won in the first place. Anyone who watched the Steelers win the Super Bowl with Roethlisberger in 2005 knows that Roethlisberger was not the primary reason for that win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kccrow 529 Posted March 20, 2017 Share Posted March 20, 2017 IIRC Joe Flacco won his SB in the final year of his rookie contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhataLerror 370 Posted March 20, 2017 Share Posted March 20, 2017 IIRC Joe Flacco won his SB in the final year of his rookie contract. Correct. In the four years since Flacco got his new contract, the Ravens have gone 30-30 with Joe Flacco starting, going 1-1 in the post-season. Is Flacco elite? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
West 6,714 Posted March 21, 2017 Share Posted March 21, 2017 That was the argument a few years back and it sure looks like Joe took the money and the team went down the tubes. w Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DefensiveMan 758 Posted March 22, 2017 Share Posted March 22, 2017 That was the argument a few years back and it sure looks like Joe took the money and the team went down the tubes. w He was great during that playoff run. Truly, he was. Ray Lewis and Ed Reed were the backbone of that team. They carried them to greatness. Joe, was right place / right time. HandsWarmer, tanked as did the Ravens Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eraser 722 Posted March 22, 2017 Author Share Posted March 22, 2017 I missed it by a couple. 12 Super Bowl wins by players on their rookie contract. The ideal is to draft a player such as Brady, who has made himself affordable despite winning 4 Super Bowls. As with many winners, it also comes with a SB contract that destroys the cap space necessary to win future games. Rodgers, Manning, and Brady are players who continued to be worth their money. You do not have to necessarily win a Super Bowl in order to get into cap trouble. There are few single Super Bowl winners. St Louis, Tampa Bay, Kansas City, New York Jets, Chicago, and Indianapolis have been one time winners. The Tennessee Titans, San Diego Chargers, Philadelphia Eagles, Minnesota Vikings, Jacksonville Jaguars, Houston Texans, Detroit Lions, Cleveland Browns, Cincinnati Bengals, Carolina Panthers, Buffalo Bills, Atlanta Falcons, and Arizona Cardinals have never won a Super Bowl. http://www.foxsports.com/nfl/story/which-nfl-teams-have-never-won-a-super-bowl-010517 Of the thirty two teams, half were multiple Super Bowl winners. At least, the Chiefs have been to the Super Bowl twice, and won it once. The four teams never playing at a Super Bowl are the Detroit Lions, Houston Texans Jacksonville Jaguars, and Cleveland Browns (current iteration). How bad is it to be a fan of the Detroit Lions. They have been in the NFL 87 years, and have yet to see their team in a Super Bowl game. The Lions haven't been to the Super Bowl, and yet their current starting quarterback, Matthew Stafford, has consistently been one of the highest paid. He was paid $22.5 M in 2016, $22 M in 2017, and will be a free agent in 2018. He will probably be paid somewhere north of $25 M, and if he remains with the Lions, he will likely remain a non-participant in the big game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liquidfriend 1,151 Posted March 22, 2017 Share Posted March 22, 2017 That's a pretty good indicator of how bad the Lions are at drafting. You can still win with a high priced QB, but you better draft well (Pats) or play with a HoF QB that players will take less to play for (Pats again, Denver with Peyton). As for Flacco, he had some big time throws during that run. Ozzie hasn't been as good at finding talent for years now (Oher, Elam come to mind quickly) and it shows on that roster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhataLerror 370 Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 That's a pretty good indicator of how bad the Lions are at drafting. Interestingly, the Lions signed NFL hopeful Matthew Stafford a day before the 2009 NFL Draft. Maybe that's why things turned out well for their quarterback: They didn't select him on draft day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DefensiveMan 758 Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 http://www.si.com/nfl/2017/03/22/nfl-mock-draft-first-round-picks-trade-rumors Trade up for McCaffrey? I don't see it happening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.