PhataLerror 370 Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 Chiefs are there, we arent a couple of pieces away. Its up to him. I'm not a big fan of Pffft, but half of the forum is arguing that Derrick Johnson was just fine after his recovery from an Achilles tear, and then Derrick Johnson is completely absent from PFF's Top 101 Players from 2016 list. He was definitely absent from the playoffs, as were Jamaal Charles, Parker Ehinger, and for the most part, Tamba Hali. Who are these amazing pieces you speak of? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azchief21 5,278 Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 THis is a Superbowl Calibur team right fucking now. They only need 1 piece! They need a QB that plays to win, not plays to not lose. Chiefs are there and have been there. I dont see how they can upgrade anywhere and be under the cap that puts them over without changing the QB. Alex needs to play to fucking win. Chiefs are there, we arent a couple of pieces away. Its up to him. Could have all-pros at 10 positions on offense. If the QB is average to below average, the offense can never be better than average. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer 8,687 Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 Could have all-pros at 10 positions on offense. If the QB is average to below average, the offense can never be better than average. what would you rate Trent Green as? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azchief21 5,278 Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 what would you rate Trent Green as? Above average. And his offense was way above average. The defense unfortunately was a screen-doored submarine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer 8,687 Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 Above average. And his offense was way above average. The defense unfortunately was a screen-doored submarine really you thought Trent had above average skill set for an NFL QB? I dont.. I'd say average but just found the perfect scheme surrounded by all Pro's and HOFrs. nothing against Trent & my only hope was that Alex would be equal to Trent .. I think the skill set is very similar..big difference was supporting cast Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azchief21 5,278 Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 really you thought Trent had above average skill set for an NFL QB? I dont.. I'd say average but just found the perfect scheme surrounded by all Pro's and HOFrs. nothing against Trent & my only hope was that Alex would be equal to Trent .. I think the skill set is very similar..big difference was supporting cast Trent had 3 years with the Chiefs with over 4000 yards using WRs that were over 30 years old. Trent would hang in and take shots. Kennison averaged 17.5 yds per catch. Morton 14.5 in the same season. Ware led with 13.5 last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhataLerror 370 Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 I think what oldtimer is getting at is that Trent Green's offensive supporting cast was better than Smith's in 2016. It's just a guess, but it would be a reasonable one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer 8,687 Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 I think what oldtimer is getting at is that Trent Green's offensive supporting cast was better than Smith's in 2016. It's just a guess, but it would be a reasonable one. yes thats my point.. I thought it pretty obvious. Other than just the eyeball test of how each QB plays the game there really is nothing else that is a reliable way to compare. The scheme's was different and of course the supporting cast was different. I think Trent's arm strength was better, both ran the ball well until knocked silly . both similar sized give or take an inch & 10#'s. Both Highly intelligent and cautious throwing the ball. you give Alex Trent's team or visa versa I'd say the over all results would be very similar Both being average QB's but Trent's offense with this years Defense and now your talking point is ..supporting cast can carry a average QB. Average Alex is going no where for at least one more year and if that is a fact then the only other solution is to break the bank with FA's and bold moves on draft day that does not include drafting a QBOTF this year...JMO of course. I think the future is now and drafting a QB unless one falls to us and is a jaw dropping WTF scenario.. then I'm not for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azchief21 5,278 Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 yes thats my point.. I thought it pretty obvious. Other than just the eyeball test of how each QB plays the game there really is nothing else that is a reliable way to compare. The scheme's was different and of course the supporting cast was different. I think Trent's arm strength was better, both ran the ball well until knocked silly . both similar sized give or take an inch & 10#'s. Both Highly intelligent and cautious throwing the ball. you give Alex Trent's team or visa versa I'd say the over all results would be very similar Both being average QB's but Trent's offense with this years Defense and now your talking point is ..supporting cast can carry a average QB. Average Alex is going no where for at least one more year and if that is a fact then the only other solution is to break the bank with FA's and bold moves on draft day that does not include drafting a QBOTF this year...JMO of course. I think the future is now and drafting a QB unless one falls to us and is a jaw dropping WTF scenario.. then I'm not for it. Naw. They may be similar in talent the difference is mentality. Trent would use all the weapons around him and he did. He'd get the ball down the field. He'd stretch it. Trent was trying to win. For me, Trent any day regardless of the offense then or now. AA would have dinked and dunked then. Defenses wouldn't have feared the downfield game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Okiechief1 425 Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 yes thats my point.. I thought it pretty obvious. Other than just the eyeball test of how each QB plays the game there really is nothing else that is a reliable way to compare. The scheme's was different and of course the supporting cast was different. I think Trent's arm strength was better, both ran the ball well until knocked silly . both similar sized give or take an inch & 10#'s. Both Highly intelligent and cautious throwing the ball. you give Alex Trent's team or visa versa I'd say the over all results would be very similar Both being average QB's but Trent's offense with this years Defense and now your talking point is ..supporting cast can carry a average QB. Average Alex is going no where for at least one more year and if that is a fact then the only other solution is to break the bank with FA's and bold moves on draft day that does not include drafting a QBOTF this year...JMO of course. I think the future is now and drafting a QB unless one falls to us and is a jaw dropping WTF scenario.. then I'm not for it. Biggest difference between the 2 is the line an TG. Only line I've ever seen that was on par with it was the early 90s cowboys. Got the feeling we aren't going to do much in FA though as I think after berry we only have 8 to 10 left and some of that will go towards the draft class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer 8,687 Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 I think $7 mil is for the draftees The Chiefs will need to catch lightning in a bottle with another Draft pick or two Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azchief21 5,278 Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 Biggest difference between the 2 is the line an TG. Only line I've ever seen that was on par with it was the early 90s cowboys. Got the feeling we aren't going to do much in FA though as I think after berry we only have 8 to 10 left and some of that will go towards the draft class. That o line was awesome, no doubt. They were road graders. Trent's best year he was sacked 32 times. AA's best year he was sacked 28 times. TG was one of the best. Kelce is not too shabby. Don't like to compare QBs from different eras but I'm sure they're a little more wimpy on calls for WRs and QBs these days as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhataLerror 370 Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 The scheme's was different and of course the supporting cast was different. When you have Chiefs fans trying to say that Jeremy Maclin should be released to make cap room, and that Tyreek Hill is on his way to being an elite receiver, you know that some folks just don't have a clue about what makes someone on the field a football player rather than an athlete in a football uniform. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer 8,687 Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 When you have Chiefs fans trying to say that Jeremy Maclin should be released to make cap room, and that Tyreek Hill is on his way to being an elite receiver, you know that some folks just don't have a clue about what makes someone on the field a football player rather than an athlete in a football uniform. J-Mac had a bad year.. fact. He has a portfolio that states that he is a solid WR..probably a better #2 than a #1 but that's a Chiefs curse along with a HOF QB..they seem to be a pipe dream. I don't agree with releasing J-Mac but I think that 2017 will be Average Alex's and J-Mac's last year unless they light up the score boards and challenge NFL seasonal records just not personal or team records. I think Tyreek is more of a Dante Hall than a Devin Hester..if we are lucky he will be a Golden Tate and not a Rocket Ismael ( yes I have seen a lot of ND football in my day) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liquidfriend 1,151 Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 you give Alex Trent's team or visa versa I'd say the over all results would be very similarAbsolutely not. One of the more absurd things I've read recently. Alex Smith would probably have better rushing stats, but about the same passing wise. Trent Green was willing to risk losing the game in order to win it. He plaued every game with that mentality. Trent Green could throw an absolute pretty deep ball and throw it to where only his receiver coild make a play on it, and actually have an ability to make the play. Smith would just run around until the line just couldn't hold up anymore. Trent was fearless and it led to him getting the TrINT nickname earlier on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer 8,687 Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 Absolutely not. One of the more absurd things I've read recently. Alex Smith would probably have better rushing stats, but about the same passing wise. Trent Green was willing to risk losing the game in order to win it. He plaued every game with that mentality. Trent Green could throw an absolute pretty deep ball and throw it to where only his receiver coild make a play on it, and actually have an ability to make the play. Smith would just run around until the line just couldn't hold up anymore. Trent was fearless and it led to him getting the TrINT nickname earlier on. I am of the thought that IF Alex had not been put into a West Coast Offense and drilled into a more Vertical Attack that he would of been fine at that.. He has been drilled to be a West Coast QB.at that he has morphed because that is what he has been asked/told to do. Its too late for him to change now tho. Keep reading my stuff I'll give you more absurd thoughts for you to absorb and scoff at. tI dont bother me none, I'm too old to care what others think Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liquidfriend 1,151 Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 I am of the thought that IF Alex had not been put into a West Coast Offense and drilled into a more Vertical Attack that he would of been fine at that.. He has been drilled to be a West Coast QB.at that he has morphed because that is what he has been asked/told to do. Its too late for him to change now tho. Keep reading my stuff I'll give you more absurd thoughts for you to absorb and scoff at. tI dont bother me none, I'm too old to care what others think I think he would of been a bust in a vertical Offense. He never had the most exceptional arm, but it was adequate enough to run a pared down Norv Turner offense. His shoulder injury sapped a lot of his arm strength imo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhataLerror 370 Posted March 4, 2017 Share Posted March 4, 2017 I think he would of been a bust in a vertical Offense. He never had the most exceptional arm, but it was adequate enough to run a pared down Norv Turner offense. His shoulder injury sapped a lot of his arm strength imo And how did Smith get his shoulder injury? The same way he got his lacerated spleen: Playing for mediocre rosters with sub-standard offensive lines that a few fans thought were better than they actually were. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calichief 3,016 Posted March 4, 2017 Share Posted March 4, 2017 J-Mac had a bad year.. fact. He has a portfolio that states that he is a solid WR..probably a better #2 than a #1 but that's a Chiefs curse along with a HOF QB..they seem to be a pipe dream. I don't agree with releasing J-Mac but I think that 2017 will be Average Alex's and J-Mac's last year unless they light up the score boards and challenge NFL seasonal records just not personal or team records. I think Tyreek is more of a Dante Hall than a Devin Hester..if we are lucky he will be a Golden Tate and not a Rocket Ismael ( yes I have seen a lot of ND football in my day) Crazy. Tyreek hill is going to be a star. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhataLerror 370 Posted March 4, 2017 Share Posted March 4, 2017 Crazy. Tyreek hill is going to be a star. He's got to run more than a 9-route or catch passes out of the backfield before that becomes a credible, well-founded projection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liquidfriend 1,151 Posted March 4, 2017 Share Posted March 4, 2017 And how did Smith get his shoulder injury? The same way he got his lacerated spleen: Playing for mediocre rosters with sub-standard offensive lines that a few fans thought were better than they actually were. I don't think anyone believed the line was good 3 years ago. So I don't know what angle you're going for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhataLerror 370 Posted March 4, 2017 Share Posted March 4, 2017 I don't think anyone believed the line was good 3 years ago. So I don't know what angle you're going for. The same angle I've had: Don't expect that a slight upgrade of the offensive line from one-of-the-league's-worst to barely passable in pass protection is going to cause a phenomenal spike in anyone's pass production. Smith trusted his line to give him time more than in previous years, and his trust was rewarded with more batted passes and hack-arm picks than I've seen from him in a long time. The offensive line play in the playoffs this year was adequate from play to play, and yet gave up some bad pressures, sacks, and a turnover. You're not even a decent line if you rarely give three seconds of protection and a clean pocket against a four-man rush, and allow catastrophic penetrations on one out of every twelve offensive snaps. Give Alex Smith the line everyone else called "good" gets, and you'll get a quarterback that's better than good. I'm not asking for perfection. I'm just asking for a line that doesn't allow one counter-productive result at least once on practically every offensive drive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liquidfriend 1,151 Posted March 4, 2017 Share Posted March 4, 2017 They were ranked close to Dallas when it came to allowing pressure. Even good lines will allow some pressure and hits. The Chiefs line was one of the better pass blocking units, so you're barking up thd wrong tree. The only starter remaining from that line is Fisher, who was starting at LT for the first time sans some spot duty as a rookie. They nearly turned over that line 100%. Not buying your whining woe is Alex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhataLerror 370 Posted March 4, 2017 Share Posted March 4, 2017 They were ranked close to Dallas when it came to allowing pressure. I get tired of hearing this. Smith was releasing the ball on average almost a half-second earlier than Dak Prescott. That's half-an-eternity in NFL time. Among qualified quarterbacks, Smith was at the top of the list for snap-to-release times. Prescott was at the bottom. To compare the Cowboys' line to the Chiefs' line is ludicrous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azchief21 5,278 Posted March 4, 2017 Share Posted March 4, 2017 Crazy. Tyreek hill is going to be a star. He'll need a capable QB to be a star at WR. We've seen what he can do with a punt, a KO, a handoff and a bubble screen. Can't wait to see what he'll do in the vertical game. AA is a WR black hole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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