tges58 33 Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 Haven't seen this posted here yet. http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000788318/article/eric-berry-chiefs-agree-to-sixyear-78-million-deal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhataLerror 370 Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 Haven't seen this posted here yet. http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000788318/article/eric-berry-chiefs-agree-to-sixyear-78-million-deal I haven't seen the contract yet, so it's hard to know if the Chiefs managed to keep a good player at a good price. That being said, this story highlights the reason I never get excited about paying safeties. Byrd went from a good defense to a bad one, and suddenly it becomes obvious that his production was a function of the talent surrounding him. That's the way safeties are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KCSLC2008 606 Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 I haven't seen the contract yet, so it's hard to know if the Chiefs managed to keep a good player at a good price. That being said, this story highlights the reason I never get excited about paying safeties. Byrd went from a good defense to a bad one, and suddenly it becomes obvious that his production was a function of the talent surrounding him. That's the way safeties are. At least Berry is staying on a good defense. Run D obviously is an issue and bend don't break is an issue timewise, etc. but Berry's not moving to a bad one. I guess eventually it could but we have other cap decisions to address that a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liquidfriend 1,151 Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 Phata doesn't have a clue. He has no idea about the major injury suffered, or that Payton demanded Rob Ryan to use him incorrectly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calichief 3,016 Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 Phata doesn't have a clue. He has no idea about the major injury suffered, or that Payton demanded Rob Ryan to use him incorrectly.Well he is always arguing how everyone around Alex needs to step up right? Couldn't you say that for Byrd? Couldn't you say that for the worst players in the league? Give me a beak with this shit. So quick to hate Charles, berry, Houston, Dj, and love smith .. what a fucking joke ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robgar 1,046 Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 read somewhere that both of these guys will amount to a 10 million cap hit this year... so lets read between the lines a bit shall we? 20 million signing bonus for berry. 10 million signing bonus for ldt Berry: 4 million per year for the first five years - signing bonus Another 20 million guaranteed - this can be prorated as well LDT: 2 million per year for the first five years - sign bonus. that leaves 1.85 million for LDT -- last year of his current contract. leaves berry with probably around 900,000 to 1.5 million salary. also read that chiefs will pay him around 35 million total the first 4 years. that leaves him with 14 million spread over 3 years .. thats about an 8/9 million per year cap hit total ... or a bit more than half of the 13 mill per year.. that your reading.. Meaning that this is a heavily backloaded contract with nearly have of the money in the final three years.. Agent friendly, Team friendly deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eraser 722 Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 read somewhere that both of these guys will amount to a 10 million cap hit this year... so lets read between the lines a bit shall we? 20 million signing bonus for berry. 10 million signing bonus for ldt Berry: 4 million per year for the first five years - signing bonus Another 20 million guaranteed - this can be prorated as well LDT: 2 million per year for the first five years - sign bonus. that leaves 1.85 million for LDT -- last year of his current contract. leaves berry with probably around 900,000 to 1.5 million salary. also read that chiefs will pay him around 35 million total the first 4 years. that leaves him with 14 million spread over 3 years .. thats about an 8/9 million per year cap hit total ... or a bit more than half of the 13 mill per year.. that your reading.. Meaning that this is a heavily backloaded contract with nearly have of the money in the final three years.. Agent friendly, Team friendly deal. Close to what I anticipated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhataLerror 370 Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 At least Berry is staying on a good defense. Run D obviously is an issue and bend don't break is an issue timewise, etc. but Berry's not moving to a bad one. I guess eventually it could but we have other cap decisions to address that a bit. That's my point. Had the Chiefs drafted a safety in the first couple of rounds, they would have saved a substantial amount of money, and even the biggest Berry fans would have forgotten about Berry within three years. Now the talent level on the defense will have to fall commensurate with remaining cap dollars, and Berry will get exposed. Berry's better than Byrd, but not good enough to warrant a sixth of $78 million over the next six years. Time will reveal whether the contract is as bad as it sounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robgar 1,046 Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 That's my point. Had the Chiefs drafted a safety in the first couple of rounds, they would have saved a substantial amount of money, and even the biggest Berry fans would have forgotten about Berry within three years. Now the talent level on the defense will have to fall commensurate with remaining cap dollars, and Berry will get exposed. Berry's better than Byrd, but not good enough to warrant a sixth of $78 million over the next six years. Time will reveal whether the contract is as bad as it sounds. What makes you think he will get anywhere close to a sixth of 78 million a year over the next 6 years.. berry will see 40 million of that contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eraser 722 Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 What makes you think he will get anywhere close to a sixth of 78 million a year over the next 6 years.. berry will see 40 million of that contract. I think you will be correct. No one I know of has the exact numbers. http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/kansas-city-chiefs/eric-berry-6514/ Spotrac only records what you show. OTC doesn't even give those numbers yet. Berry is 28, so if the Chiefs can get 4 years out of this new contract, they may be happy. You never know in football how these things work. One major injury, and it is over. Berry's contract won't be so heavy at the end as to approach $19 per season for the final two years. The average is $13, and I heard his cap number this year is likely to be around $5 1/2 M. So, it is cap friendly for 2017. However, you have to make up for that in future years. Let's say his salary is around $2.5 M for 2017 ($5.833 M cap # for '17) That means his average salary, and prorated bonus would be $15.1 M on average for the remainder. The first four years usually eat up all the guaranteed money. Year 1 $2.5 M Salary $3.33 M prorated bonus $5.8 cap hit, dead money $40 M, savings/loss ($34.2 M) Year 2 $8.8 M Salary $3.33 M prorated bonus $12.1 cap hit, dead money $34.2 M, savings/loss (28.3 M) Year 3 $9.9 M Salary $3.33 M prorated bonus $13.2 cap hit, dead money $22.1 M, savings/ loss ($18.2 M) Year 4 $10.8 M Salary $3.33 M prorated bonus $14.1 cap hit, dead money $10.0 M, savings/loss $800 K Year 5 $12.1 M Salary $3.33 M prorated bonus $15.4 cap hit dead money $6.66 M savings/loss $5.3 M Year 6 $14.1 M Salary $3.33 M prorated bonus $17.4 cap hit, dead money $3.33 M savings/loss $10.9 M Under this scenario, the Chiefs could manage releasing Berry if after year 3 (if he is unable to play or no longer productive) In addition, if they find he still has a few more years left, they could extend his contract by 2 or 3 years, and lower the cap hit by converting salary to signing bonus. Troy Polomalu played 12 seasons, and retired at age 33. He was hurt in 2009 at the age of 28 (played 5 games). He missed 2 games the following 2 seasons (2010 - 2011), and was good up until he reached age 30. In 2012, he was not very good, and got hurt again (only played 7 games). He rebounded, and made the pro bowl in 2013 at the age of 32. However, it was actually not a very strong year. Statistically, the numbers were there, but he was a step slower. The following season, Troy played hurt, but managed to make it through 12 games. He was washed up. The following year, he retired. There is no way to tell if Berry will have a career that mirrors Polomalu, but usually players at that position seem to wain after they hit 30 years of age. Ronnie Lott was more of a FS, but hit hard. He lasted until he was 35, but was ineffective in his final year. At age 34, Lott was still playing at a high level. Rodney Harrison managed to play 16 years, and retired at age 36. However, Harrison was a shadow of his former self, and really only truly effective until age 32. Rod Woodson was the exception. He played until he was 38 years old, and had been an all pro up until the year before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhataLerror 370 Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 I think you will be correct. No one I know of has the exact numbers. http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/kansas-city-chiefs/eric-berry-6514/ Spotrac only records what you show. OTC doesn't even give those numbers yet. Berry is 28, so if the Chiefs can get 4 years out of this new contract, they may be happy. You never know in football how these things work. One major injury, and it is over. Berry's contract won't be so heavy at the end as to approach $19 per season for the final two years. The average is $13, and I heard his cap number this year is likely to be around $5 1/2 M. So, it is cap friendly for 2017. However, you have to make up for that in future years. Let's say his salary is around $2.5 M for 2017 ($5.833 M cap # for '17) That means his average salary, and prorated bonus would be $15.1 M on average for the remainder. The first four years usually eat up all the guaranteed money. Year 1 $2.5 M Salary $3.33 M prorated bonus $5.8 cap hit, dead money $40 M, savings/loss ($34.2 M) Year 2 $8.8 M Salary $3.33 M prorated bonus $12.1 cap hit, dead money $34.2 M, savings/loss (28.3 M) Year 3 $9.9 M Salary $3.33 M prorated bonus $13.2 cap hit, dead money $22.1 M, savings/ loss ($18.2 M) Year 4 $10.8 M Salary $3.33 M prorated bonus $14.1 cap hit, dead money $10.0 M, savings/loss $800 K Year 5 $12.1 M Salary $3.33 M prorated bonus $15.4 cap hit dead money $6.66 M savings/loss $5.3 M Year 6 $14.1 M Salary $3.33 M prorated bonus $17.4 cap hit, dead money $3.33 M savings/loss $10.9 M Under this scenario, the Chiefs could manage releasing Berry if after year 3 (if he is unable to play or no longer productive) In addition, if they find he still has a few more years left, they could extend his contract by 2 or 3 years, and lower the cap hit by converting salary to signing bonus. Troy Polomalu played 12 seasons, and retired at age 33. He was hurt in 2009 at the age of 28 (played 5 games). He missed 2 games the following 2 seasons (2010 - 2011), and was good up until he reached age 30. In 2012, he was not very good, and got hurt again (only played 7 games). He rebounded, and made the pro bowl in 2013 at the age of 32. However, it was actually not a very strong year. Statistically, the numbers were there, but he was a step slower. The following season, Troy played hurt, but managed to make it through 12 games. He was washed up. The following year, he retired. There is no way to tell if Berry will have a career that mirrors Polomalu, but usually players at that position seem to wain after they hit 30 years of age. Ronnie Lott was more of a FS, but hit hard. He lasted until he was 35, but was ineffective in his final year. At age 34, Lott was still playing at a high level. Rodney Harrison managed to play 16 years, and retired at age 36. However, Harrison was a shadow of his former self, and really only truly effective until age 32. Rod Woodson was the exception. He played until he was 38 years old, and had been an all pro up until the year before. I thought prorated signing bonuses only extend for 5 years. I was expecting a $4 million-per-year hit from that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer 8,686 Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 I thought prorated signing bonuses only extend for 5 years. I was expecting a $4 million-per-year hit from that. listening to the talking heads that is what was figured when talking about the cap hit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KCSLC2008 606 Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 What makes you think he will get anywhere close to a sixth of 78 million a year over the next 6 years.. berry will see 40 million of that contract. I think he is saying a sixth more then what Byrd got? 5/6 of 78 million is 65 million. Or better put, I think he is comparing 13 million per year to 10.8 million per year. (10.8 is 5/6th of 13.) I don't think anyone would be saying that Berry would sign this contract and only play for one of the six years. Or would they say that the first sixth of the contract is more than two years and that Berry would only play two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KCSLC2008 606 Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 Nevermind, I missed the boat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eraser 722 Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 We have yet to see the full details of Berry's contract. However, it is not reasonable for the contract to be backloaded to the point where $38 M of the $78 M contract comes within the final two years. It is likely Berry will make more than $40 M. But it is true, the Chiefs are responsible for a minimum payment of $40 M. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhataLerror 370 Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 We have yet to see the full details of Berry's contract. However, it is not reasonable for the contract to be backloaded to the point where $38 M of the $78 M contract comes within the final two years. It is likely Berry will make more than $40 M. But it is true, the Chiefs are responsible for a minimum payment of $40 M. Or the guarantees might trigger over successive years. The signing bonus is the poison pill, and the guarantees make Berry, his agent, and the Chiefs look good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eraser 722 Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 Or the guarantees might trigger over successive years. The signing bonus is the poison pill, and the guarantees make Berry, his agent, and the Chiefs look good. Exactly correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liquidfriend 1,151 Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 Not all guarantees are the same and guarantee doesn't necessarily equal to fully guaranteed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieHard 2,061 Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 That's my point. Had the Chiefs drafted a safety in the first couple of rounds, they would have saved a substantial amount of money, and even the biggest Berry fans would have forgotten about Berry within three years. Now the talent level on the defense will have to fall commensurate with remaining cap dollars, and Berry will get exposed. Berry's better than Byrd, but not good enough to warrant a sixth of $78 million over the next six years. Time will reveal whether the contract is as bad as it sounds. I don't think Berry is such a fan favorite because of his play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omahacolt 208 Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 that is a lot of coin for a safety good player though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eraser 722 Posted March 4, 2017 Share Posted March 4, 2017 I would like to know the details of the agreement before putting my final say on it. I hear a lot of talk that he earned it. That may be true, but it is also a falsehood. Contracts are not written to pay for past performance. If they were, no one would receive a rookie contract, because no one has done anything. In fact, one team does make an effort to pay players for what they will likely add to the team, and New England does not overpay for older players. They cut old players when they become too pricey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robgar 1,046 Posted March 6, 2017 Share Posted March 6, 2017 This is more about leadership than anything else.. If there is a Chief you can say put the team on there back, in order to win, week in, and week out it is berry... You have to pay these guys... we knew this was coming when we made him the highest safety ever taken in the draft.. We knew it when he came back from cancer, and guys... he plays pretty damned well... But what he means to this team, is a combination of the above, with DJ and Tamba nearing the ends of there careers, we could not afford to loose our leader. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eraser 722 Posted March 6, 2017 Share Posted March 6, 2017 I saw where someone's mock draft had Peppers going to New England. Wow, that would suck. He seems to be the most Berry like individual in the draft. I wonder, is there room for Peppers with Peters, Berry, Parker, and Nelson? I know this sounds weird, but maybe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SEMO 6,811 Posted March 6, 2017 Share Posted March 6, 2017 I saw where someone's mock draft had Peppers going to New England. Wow, that would suck. He seems to be the most Berry like individual in the draft. I wonder, is there room for Peppers with Peters, Berry, Parker, and Nelson? I know this sounds weird, but maybe. If Peppers is there at 27, I would run my card to the table. He is a game changer and a major upgrade over Parker, maybe even Berry. Parker is good and I like him. But, he plays nickel a lot anyway. Berry, Parker and Peppers on the field together...Our dime defense would be absolutely sick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liquidfriend 1,151 Posted March 6, 2017 Share Posted March 6, 2017 Spending your top pick, when you have no run D and really need a QB to develop, wouldn't be the best move. Peppers is more athlete than football player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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