PhataLerror 370 Posted May 3, 2017 Author Share Posted May 3, 2017 I find it funny that all you are is negative, and try to pick arguments with everyone you come in contact with. Must get old being that miserable. Diehard is one of the longest active members on this board, and he is taken serious by pretty much everyone BUT you. I would say on the opposite end, NO ONE takes YOU serious on this board. Huh? I think you're getting the thread here mixed up. I didn't have a beef with Diehard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SEMO 6,811 Posted May 3, 2017 Share Posted May 3, 2017 Sorry, my comment was meant to the argument of starting a rookie versus sitting a rookie. I guess I need to brush up on my Redskin Gam history. Are you serious? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SEMO 6,811 Posted May 3, 2017 Share Posted May 3, 2017 More praise from Gruden. http://www.arrowheadpride.com/2017/5/3/15531842/jon-gruden-says-this-isnt-the-same-texas-tech-system-patrick-mahomes-is-from Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vonschnitz 130 Posted May 4, 2017 Share Posted May 4, 2017 Some say that Mahomes has to work on his footwork, really, Aaron Rodgers doesn't have the best footwork either, but Rodgers makes plays just like Mahomes will make plays. I think you are right. Mahomes can throw with velocity and accuracy in any direction while is body is twisted in 50 different directions running away from rushers and with the pocket collapsing. He can throw accurately and at 60 mph to the left sideline while fleeing to the right. He can turn shit into milk chocolate. We have never seen this before in KC. He needs one single year to learn the proper footwork in the pocket. But he can still make amazing plays while being flushed from the pocket. Plus he is very smart and is a leader who inspires team mates. Dorsey and Reid always draft to fill a position that is going to become too expensive to keep paying a year or two out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhataLerror 370 Posted May 4, 2017 Author Share Posted May 4, 2017 Mahomes... can still make amazing plays while being flushed from the pocket. But can he play from the pocket? I've seen Colin Kaepernick make the plays you just described. The problem with Kaepernick was that he couldn't string together drives. NFL quarterbacks need more than throw velocity, and footwork isn't the only thing Mahomes needs to learn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiefsfan1963 1,101 Posted May 4, 2017 Share Posted May 4, 2017 But can he play from the pocket? I've seen Colin Kaepernick make the plays you just described. The problem with Kaepernick was that he couldn't string together drives.The problem with Kaperdick is that he couldn't handle success and started listening to his psycho squeeze. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhataLerror 370 Posted May 4, 2017 Author Share Posted May 4, 2017 The problem with Kaperdick is that he couldn't handle success and started listening to his psycho squeeze. Back in 2012, I was calling out the 49ers for elevating Kaepernick. That was years before all of the nonsense that has nothing to do with the reason he is unemployed today. Kaepernick has always been an athlete first, a quarterback second. He was a baseball pitcher in his early days, and he retained that mindset for as long as he played in the NFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xen 1,010,220 Posted May 4, 2017 Share Posted May 4, 2017 But can he play from the pocket? I've seen Colin Kaepernick make the plays you just described. The problem with Kaepernick was that he couldn't string together drives. NFL quarterbacks need more than throw velocity, and footwork isn't the only thing Mahomes needs to learn. Yes he has the best pocket presence in this draft after Nathan Peterman. Rarely got flustered or ran from phantom pressure. Has an uncanny feel for where pressure is coming from and unlike kizer hardly ever escaped into pressure. All in all, excellent pocket presence from a qb. Right now he's better at it than Alex Smith which is saying something. This is one of those things that qbs either have or don't. Some get better at it but usually only incrementally. A few other things... Unlike trubisky who almost always throws the fastball, Mahomes know when to take something off a throw or loft it and throws a super catchable ball. Unlike Watson and Alex Smith, when he does scramble to avoid pressure he keeps his eyes downfield, and usually scrambles to pass. This is where he can learn from Aaron Rodgers, who usually has good enough footwork on the run to make a great throw. Mahomes completes ridiculous passes on the run but if he improves in this area he will be ridiculously dangerous (he is already the best prospect in this area in years). Of course he is decent enough at scrambling for yards as well. Not as good as Watson or Josh dobbs, or even Alex Smith, but good. Not an essential quality imo. Mahomes' also goes through multiple progressions by far more than any other prospect. Better at it than Alex right now. Watson and Alex do a lot of pre snap reads to find the best matchup. Watson rarely goes through his progressions and will run if the first 1 or possibly 2 options are not there. Alex is great at pre snap reads. Mahomes is good but needs improvement. This is absolutely a teachable skill. How God you are at it is a product of intelligence and how good a coach you have. Mahomes is smart and now has great coaches. To do list for mahomes: Get comfortable with 3, 5, and 7 step drops. Note they practiced under center at Texas tech but rarely did those drops. Not super essential considering most teams are in shotgun over half the time but needs to learn. Get better at pre snap reads. This is where Alex and Andy will help him grow exponentially. Watson is good at this too. Oh that footwork. Amazing that he's probably the third most accurate qb in this draft while attempting tons more hard throws to make than any other prospect in this draft, by far. Or Alex. IF Andy gets his feet right... watch out. Watson and Chad Kelly were the most accurate but numbers were bolstered by not routinely attempting the caliber of throws Mahomes was chucking with regularity. There's more but I'm tired of typing on my phone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NChiefsCorner 496 Posted May 5, 2017 Share Posted May 5, 2017 Kevin Keitzman on am810 keeps saying that if Alex Smith gets to the SB and wins the Chiefs will not be able to get rid of him, because teams just don't do that, if I remember right that's exactly what the Ravens did with Trent Dilfer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xen 1,010,220 Posted May 5, 2017 Share Posted May 5, 2017 Kevin Keitzman on am810 keeps saying that if Alex Smith gets to the SB and wins the Chiefs will not be able to get rid of him, because teams just don't do that, if I remember right that's exactly what the Ravens did with Trent Dilfer. Unlikely scenario but hell if he wins a superbowl he'll be a god in KC. Doesn't mean they won't replace him if someone else beats him out though. Hell Mahomes may be good for Alex. Maybe he'll loosen up and take some chances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calichief 3,016 Posted May 5, 2017 Share Posted May 5, 2017 Unlikely scenario but hell if he wins a superbowl he'll be a god in KC. Doesn't mean they won't replace him if someone else beats him out though. Hell Mahomes may be good for Alex. Maybe he'll loosen up and take some chances. I hope it pushes him to play some do or die ball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calichief 3,016 Posted May 5, 2017 Share Posted May 5, 2017 Unlikely scenario but hell if he wins a superbowl he'll be a god in KC. Doesn't mean they won't replace him if someone else beats him out though. Hell Mahomes may be good for Alex. Maybe he'll loosen up and take some chances. Also, I think Alex has the talent. It's in there. We've seen it on passes to tyreek etc. He just doesn't see the whole field and I think he's far too afraid to make a mistake. Imo.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liquidfriend 1,151 Posted May 5, 2017 Share Posted May 5, 2017 Kevin Keitzman on am810 keeps saying that if Alex Smith gets to the SB and wins the Chiefs will not be able to get rid of him, because teams just don't do that, if I remember right that's exactly what the Ravens did with Trent Dilfer. He'd serve out his contract if that happened, but I don't see it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vonschnitz 130 Posted May 5, 2017 Share Posted May 5, 2017 Yes he has the best pocket presence in this draft after Nathan Peterman. Rarely got flustered or ran from phantom pressure. Has an uncanny feel for where pressure is coming from and unlike kizer hardly ever escaped into pressure. All in all, excellent pocket presence from a qb. Right now he's better at it than Alex Smith which is saying something. This is one of those things that qbs either have or don't. Some get better at it but usually only incrementally. A few other things... Unlike trubisky who almost always throws the fastball, Mahomes know when to take something off a throw or loft it and throws a super catchable ball. Unlike Watson and Alex Smith, when he does scramble to avoid pressure he keeps his eyes downfield, and usually scrambles to pass. This is where he can learn from Aaron Rodgers, who usually has good enough footwork on the run to make a great throw. Mahomes completes ridiculous passes on the run but if he improves in this area he will be ridiculously dangerous (he is already the best prospect in this area in years). Of course he is decent enough at scrambling for yards as well. Not as good as Watson or Josh dobbs, or even Alex Smith, but good. Not an essential quality imo. Mahomes' also goes through multiple progressions by far more than any other prospect. Better at it than Alex right now. Watson and Alex do a lot of pre snap reads to find the best matchup. Watson rarely goes through his progressions and will run if the first 1 or possibly 2 options are not there. Alex is great at pre snap reads. Mahomes is good but needs improvement. This is absolutely a teachable skill. How God you are at it is a product of intelligence and how good a coach you have. Mahomes is smart and now has great coaches. To do list for mahomes: Get comfortable with 3, 5, and 7 step drops. Note they practiced under center at Texas tech but rarely did those drops. Not super essential considering most teams are in shotgun over half the time but needs to learn. Get better at pre snap reads. This is where Alex and Andy will help him grow exponentially. Watson is good at this too. Oh that footwork. Amazing that he's probably the third most accurate qb in this draft while attempting tons more hard throws to make than any other prospect in this draft, by far. Or Alex. IF Andy gets his feet right... watch out. Watson and Chad Kelly were the most accurate but numbers were bolstered by not routinely attempting the caliber of throws Mahomes was chucking with regularity. There's more but I'm tired of typing on my phone. Thank you, Xen, for all of those observations. I don't know anything about Mahomes' priorities as a football player vs. an athlete. To me, any NFL football player is great athlete by definition. As far as Phatal's comment regarding Kaepernik and Mahomes having been in baseball and originally pitchers, all that says is that he has a strong, accurate arm, with finesse. He is also a different person than Kaepernik. He is not Kaepernik wearing a mask. Drawing parallels like that is utterly meaningless. Dorsey, Reid, and the scouts think he will be great and moved way up to get him. I trust them. At the very worst, he will be an average QB in a year. At the best, he would be another Brett Favre. Most likely, he will be a top 5 QB eventually after several years unless he is shot in a bar or killed in a car wreck. The Chiefs did what they had to do and believed in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieHard 2,061 Posted May 5, 2017 Share Posted May 5, 2017 Kevin Keitzman on am810 keeps saying that if Alex Smith gets to the SB and wins the Chiefs will not be able to get rid of him, because teams just don't do that, if I remember right that's exactly what the Ravens did with Trent Dilfer. I find it hard to worry about what the down side of winning a Super Bowl would be, but that is totally Kevin. Obsessed with the irrelevant. Yes Smith will be here for at least 2018. A Super Bowl victory puts Mahomes on the bench for an extra year or 2? I can live with that. Just show me that trophy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liquidfriend 1,151 Posted May 5, 2017 Share Posted May 5, 2017 The main key with KK is that he's naturally butthurt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xen 1,010,220 Posted May 5, 2017 Share Posted May 5, 2017 Thank you, Xen, for all of those observations. I don't know anything about Mahomes' priorities as a football player vs. an athlete. To me, any NFL football player is great athlete by definition. As far as Phatal's comment regarding Kaepernik and Mahomes having been in baseball and originally pitchers, all that says is that he has a strong, accurate arm, with finesse. He is also a different person than Kaepernik. He is not Kaepernik wearing a mask. Drawing parallels like that is utterly meaningless. Dorsey, Reid, and the scouts think he will be great and moved way up to get him. I trust them. At the very worst, he will be an average QB in a year. At the best, he would be another Brett Favre. Most likely, he will be a top 5 QB eventually after several years unless he is shot in a bar or killed in a car wreck. The Chiefs did what they had to do and believed in it. Yeah there's really no comparison between kaepernick and mahomes on or off the field. Off the field mahomes has his head on straight. Kaep is a head case. On the field in college, Kaepernick was more of a Josh Dobbs type of player. Running qb with a good not great arm who ran a simplified spread. In Kaepernick's case it was the pistol read option offense. Dobbs ran a similar pistol/shotgun offense but it was more of a smashmouth spread than read option. Whereas Mahomes ran a more sophisticated version of the air raid spread. Obviously this is a spread offense but instead of being loaded with one read plays like the college offenses that Dobbs, Kaepernick and even deshaun Watson ran, Kliff Kingsbury's tech offense is a fairly pure air raid spread with more multi read concepts. It will be a big change for mahomes to jump to the west coast offense however keep in mind Reid has added more spread concepts to his offense than almost any other coach not named belicheat. He added read option plays for Alex and he'll adjust it to mahomes as well. It's a very flexible offensive system. The spread is the great equalizer in college football. You don't have to recruit great athletes to win. That's one of the reasons air raid qbs have not done well in the NFL. They simply were not great athletes or players. The system made them look better than they were. I firmly believe mahomes is the exception to this. I've never seen a college spread qb with his combination of talents. The NFL hasn't either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xen 1,010,220 Posted May 5, 2017 Share Posted May 5, 2017 The main key with KK is that he's naturally butthurt.lol Perpetually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer 8,687 Posted May 5, 2017 Share Posted May 5, 2017 KK the talking zit with ears Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhataLerror 370 Posted May 5, 2017 Author Share Posted May 5, 2017 As far as Phatal's comment regarding Kaepernik and Mahomes having been in baseball and originally pitchers, all that says is that he has a strong, accurate arm, with finesse. He is also a different person than Kaepernik. He is not Kaepernik wearing a mask. Drawing parallels like that is utterly meaningless. My point of comparison was not 'Mahomes is Kaepernick'; I never said anything of the sort. I compared an aspect of Kaepernick's game to an aspect of Mahomes' game; two totally different things. I think Mahomes is a better prospect than Kaepernick. Kaepernick had the higher ceiling due to throw velocity and footspeed, but in terms of a ceiling that is likely to be attainable, Mahomes is probably more likely to have sustained success in the NFL because he's not as raw coming into the league as Kaepernick was. My later comment about my take on Kaepernick in 2012 was all about my being correct about his NFL potential before Ron Jaworski called him a quarterback with the potential to be the best ever, and long before Kaepernick became more concerned about his brand and about activism than he was about football. A surefire way for anyone to discredit themselves in regard to film study is to argue that Kaepernick is unemployed because of political reasons. Six years into the league, the tape shows that he's made little progress as an NFL quarterback. I wasn't even talking about Mahomes at that point. I don't have anything more than a probability-based outlook on Mahomes' NFL career prospects; I haven't seen him play against NFL teams yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vonschnitz 130 Posted May 5, 2017 Share Posted May 5, 2017 My point of comparison was not 'Mahomes is Kaepernick'; I never said anything of the sort. I compared an aspect of Kaepernick's game to an aspect of Mahomes' game; two totally different things. I think Mahomes is a better prospect than Kaepernick. Kaepernick had the higher ceiling due to throw velocity and footspeed, but in terms of a ceiling that is likely to be attainable, Mahomes is probably more likely to have sustained success in the NFL because he's not as raw coming into the league as Kaepernick was. My later comment about my take on Kaepernick in 2012 was all about my being correct about his NFL potential before Ron Jaworski called him a quarterback with the potential to be the best ever, and long before Kaepernick became more concerned about his brand and about activism than he was about football. A surefire way for anyone to discredit themselves in regard to film study is to argue that Kaepernick is unemployed because of political reasons. Six years into the league, the tape shows that he's made little progress as an NFL quarterback. I wasn't even talking about Mahomes at that point. I don't have anything more than a probability-based outlook on Mahomes' NFL career prospects; I haven't seen him play against NFL teams yet. I see. Thanks, Phatal. We both hope he is a big success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Handswarmer 645 Posted May 5, 2017 Share Posted May 5, 2017 Kevin Keitzman on am810 keeps saying that if Alex Smith gets to the SB and wins the Chiefs will not be able to get rid of him, because teams just don't do that, if I remember right that's exactly what the Ravens did with Trent Dilfer. Fans were in an uproar about it but in reality they wouldn't have repeated with Dilfer as the QB. His range downfield was limited. He had success when the playbook was limited- not because of his football IQ, but because of his physical limitations. Plus the formula was to run Jamal Lewis down the throat, pop a short route to Sharpe, let the defense go hunt for scalps. Grbac was horrible....dumbest fa signing ever...for both our teams! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Handswarmer 645 Posted May 5, 2017 Share Posted May 5, 2017 Sorry, my comment was meant to the argument of starting a rookie versus sitting a rookie. I guess I need to brush up on my Redskin Gam history. No, you have my apologies. I thought that was Phatal's comment. I was wr, wr, wr, wr, wro........MISTAKEN! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Handswarmer 645 Posted May 5, 2017 Share Posted May 5, 2017 I find it hard to worry about what the down side of winning a Super Bowl would be, but that is totally Kevin. Obsessed with the irrelevant. Yes Smith will be here for at least 2018. A Super Bowl victory puts Mahomes on the bench for an extra year or 2? I can live with that. Just show me that trophy. If that were the scenario, winning the SB with Smith and sitting Mahomes for another year, that would be a win-win situation for Chiefs fans.... Nothing wrong with that at all... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calichief 3,016 Posted May 7, 2017 Share Posted May 7, 2017 https://twitter.com/chiefsreporter/status/861016224716771328 Mahomes already putting in extra work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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