PhataLerror 370 Posted June 26, 2017 Share Posted June 26, 2017 Absolutely. Having a great QB means not having draft offensive playmakers all over the field and allows teams to draft and develop more defensive players...and those guy don't have to be on the field as long, so they are stronger at the end of the game and can also take more chances on the field. Having a GM who is better at managing the cap allows a team to fill in holes with top FA's, something that Andy Reid loves to do. By the time of the next draft, Mahomes will likely be getting ready to start, so a trade for AS might bring in the money to sign another top FA or retain one or more of our stars who have contract talks coming up...or pick up more draft choices...or both. Changing GM's might also be the right thing to do, because we have a VERY young and deep team (thanks to Dorsey). I'm sorry, but what offensive playmakers are we talking about? Travis Kelce? The Chiefs don't have a healthy Jamaal Charles, they don't have even a WR1. There isn't anyone else that's a true playmaker, that is, except for the quarterback himself. There's not a single lineman that could be called elite, and Hill is a role player until he can stay on the field for closer to 100% of snaps and can run a number of different routes effectively. But you're right: If the offensive supporting cast would do their jobs: Block for the quarterback, catch the passes that hit them in the breadbasket, and run effectively between the tackles, then, yes, the defense and offense would both be better off at the end of games. It's not that the Chiefs haven't invested in the offense. It's just that the money hasn't been well-spent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vonschnitz 130 Posted June 26, 2017 Share Posted June 26, 2017 I'm sorry, but what offensive playmakers are we talking about? Travis Kelce? The Chiefs don't have a healthy Jamaal Charles, they don't have even a WR1. There isn't anyone else that's a true playmaker, that is, except for the quarterback himself. There's not a single lineman that could be called elite, and Hill is a role player until he can stay on the field for closer to 100% of snaps and can run a number of different routes effectively. But you're right: If the offensive supporting cast would do their jobs: Block for the quarterback, catch the passes that hit them in the breadbasket, and run effectively between the tackles, then, yes, the defense and offense would both be better off at the end of games. It's not that the Chiefs haven't invested in the offense. It's just that the money hasn't been well-spent. Its all just speculation, but I believe there are several high ceiling offensive players on the team right now that are developing and could become what are called "playmakers." I have heard a lot of exciting things about Chesson. Hill, of course, Hunt, Conley (still learning). These guys could really be emerging about the same time that Mahomes starts. Remember, guys who make plays on offense have a lot more room to do so when the field is stretched. We know Hill stretches the field, and Chesson has great speed, also. With more room, DAT could become a much bigger factor. The field will really be stretched when Mahomes becomes the starter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiefmanzada 466 Posted June 26, 2017 Share Posted June 26, 2017 I have to admit, my initial reaction to this news went something like this... Lmaooo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhataLerror 370 Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 Its all just speculation, but I believe there are several high ceiling offensive players on the team right now that are developing and could become what are called "playmakers." I have heard a lot of exciting things about Chesson. Hill, of course, Hunt, Conley (still learning). These guys could really be emerging about the same time that Mahomes starts. Remember, guys who make plays on offense have a lot more room to do so when the field is stretched. We know Hill stretches the field, and Chesson has great speed, also. With more room, DAT could become a much bigger factor. The field will really be stretched when Mahomes becomes the starter. "Could become" and "is" are two entirely different things. Mahomes has a higher ceiling than Smith, but he's not even qualified to take a regular season snap yet. In any case, the potential to stretch the field is worthless when your front five can't protect the quarterback for hardly more than two seconds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gil 243 Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 Mahomes has a higher ceiling than Smith, but he's not even qualified to take a regular season snap yet. Pure speculation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhataLerror 370 Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 Pure speculation. That he has a higher ceiling than Smith is also speculation. They haven't developed a test that accurately projects Football IQ. But we know for a fact that Mahomes has a number of weaknesses in quarterbacking fundamentals, especially footwork. Mahomes indicated early on that there's so much for him to learn about the Chiefs' offense. Imagine him to be whatever makes you happy, but it's not without precedent that literally no one but Chiefs fans that hate having Smith at quarterback believes that Mahomes should start this season, and a number of those believe he should be given two years. He is that raw, and when quarterbacks are that raw, promoting them early tends to ruin them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vonschnitz 130 Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 Its speculation, alright. That goes without saying. But there is hope. We have been waiting a long time to draft a QBOTF and posting endlessly on this board about that for as long as I can remember. If he pans out, it would be the answer to the franchise's biggest weakeness since Lenny retired in 1975 (except for the Montana years, in his twilight). We sure can't fault Dorsey for going all out to take Mahomes. If Mahomes had not gone into the draft as a Junior and gone back to play one more year in college and performed as expected, he would have been considered pro-ready and might have been picked off at the very top of the first round. To move up there at that point, we would have had to trade the entire future of the team away. With Alex, we had the luxury of getting him while he was cheaper (at the 10th spot) and let him learn under Reid and staff his system and practice against pros for a year. It could turn out to be the best move in Chiefs history. I sure hope it works. This analysis is not mine. I read it on one of the sites yesterday. Arrowhead Pride, I think. Anyway, the entire organization can be thanked for figuring this one out, not just Reid and Dorsey. But he will need at least a year to get ready and make up for having come out as a Junior. The other thing that the article mentioned is that, if he looks ready to start in 2018, Alex could be traded or released before the draft, greatly healing the cap problem and maybe getting us back an extra draft choice or two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhataLerror 370 Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 Its speculation, alright. That goes without saying. But there is hope. We have been waiting a long time to draft a QBOTF and posting endlessly on this board about that for as long as I can remember. If he pans out, it would be the answer to the franchise's biggest weakeness since Lenny retired in 1975 (except for the Montana years, in his twilight). We sure can't fault Dorsey for going all out to take Mahomes. If Mahomes had not gone into the draft as a Junior and gone back to play one more year in college and performed as expected, he would have been considered pro-ready and might have been picked off at the very top of the first round. To move up there at that point, we would have had to trade the entire future of the team away. With Alex, we had the luxury of getting him while he was cheaper (at the 10th spot) and let him learn under Reid and staff his system and practice against pros for a year. It could turn out to be the best move in Chiefs history. I sure hope it works. This analysis is not mine. I read it on one of the sites yesterday. Arrowhead Pride, I think. Anyway, the entire organization can be thanked for figuring this one out, not just Reid and Dorsey. But he will need at least a year to get ready and make up for having come out as a Junior. The other thing that the article mentioned is that, if he looks ready to start in 2018, Alex could be traded or released before the draft, greatly healing the cap problem and maybe getting us back an extra draft choice or two. But how much of that validation is a consequence of restricting one's thought to one's selected echo chamber? Most everyone here will agree that other actions didn't work, but didn't they not work due to matters that had no relationship with how a certain quarterback was acquired? The whole concept of having to draft one's quarterback to succeed is fundamentally irrational, as so many franchises (including the Chiefs) have won Super Bowls with quarterbacks acquired otherwise. There's a huge difference between attempting and succeeding. The Chiefs may attempt to win a Super Bowl with Mahomes, but validation comes from the result, not from the method. I commented on that Arrowhead Pride article you referenced. If you scrutinize the reasoning, it was dubious at best. The Chiefs could have gotten two impact players and an additional solid prospect between 2017 and 2018, but instead, they went all-in for a quarterback that may or may not be relevant in the NFL. If history is any indicator, two of the three quarterbacks of the 2018 class referenced in that Arrowhead Pride article won't have an NFL career as good as Smith's. Something to think about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azchief21 5,278 Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 Mahomes has the talent and potential to be elite but we won't know until he hits the field. Smith has proven to be average at best. He's a placeholder right now until Mahomes learns the playbook. Smith is a smart man, he knows this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Handswarmer 645 Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 i don't think anyone knows what the potential is for Mahomes anymore than they know what beer I drink. Its all a crap shoot. You all WANT him to have the potential, TO BE the QBOTF, HOPE that he isn't Todd Blackledge, etc etc etc.... I know what the responses will be- spare me. I understand the passion- I appreciate it and I know it. I know your frustratioms The bottom line is that potential does not equal success; this is NOT to say, IN ANY SHAPE, WAY OR FORM, that Mahomes is or will be a bust or will be All Pro, but rather that while hopes are high since the Team finally addressed the QB position, it doesn't guarantee success either. There are a lot of flame outs in the NFL recently: Ponder, Gabbert, Manuel, Osweiler, RG3, Kapernick, etc, because of the importance placed on the position. Nothing guarantees success like playing in the games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azchief21 5,278 Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 i don't think anyone knows what the potential is for Mahomes anymore than they know what beer I drink. Its all a crap shoot. You all WANT him to have the potential, TO BE the QBOTF, HOPE that he isn't Todd Blackledge, etc etc etc.... I know what the responses will be- spare me. I understand the passion- I appreciate it and I know it. I know your frustratioms The bottom line is that potential does not equal success; this is NOT to say, IN ANY SHAPE, WAY OR FORM, that Mahomes is or will be a bust or will be All Pro, but rather that while hopes are high since the Team finally addressed the QB position, it doesn't guarantee success either. There are a lot of flame outs in the NFL recently: Ponder, Gabbert, Manuel, Osweiler, RG3, Kapernick, etc, because of the importance placed on the position. Nothing guarantees success like playing in the games. That's why I said we won't know until he hits the field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NChiefsCorner 496 Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 Mahommes should start as a rookie, just like Joe Flacco. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiefsfan1963 1,101 Posted June 28, 2017 Share Posted June 28, 2017 Mahommes should start as a rookie, just like Joe Flacco.Or like Grease, Tebow, Lossman, Harrington, Boller, Couch etc... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhataLerror 370 Posted June 28, 2017 Share Posted June 28, 2017 Or like Grease, Tebow, Lossman, Harrington, Boller, Couch etc... Boller had a cannon, didn't he? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroncoStud 3,253 Posted June 28, 2017 Share Posted June 28, 2017 Or like Grease, Tebow, Lossman, Harrington, Boller, Couch etc... Tebow has as many playoff victories since 1994 as the Chiefs do... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhataLerror 370 Posted June 28, 2017 Share Posted June 28, 2017 Tebow has as many playoff victories since 1994 as the Chiefs do... That's the difference a true team makes. There was something good for Tebow to lead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vonschnitz 130 Posted June 28, 2017 Share Posted June 28, 2017 That's the difference a true team makes. There was something good for Tebow to lead. I like this Chiefs team. I've seen 'em all since 1969. I went to all the home games that year. I like this team a lot. I guess that is why I am here. I'm a fan ( a shortened form of the word "fanatic" - something inherently irrational). Why are you here, Phatal? Does it satisfy some masochistic impulse? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhataLerror 370 Posted June 28, 2017 Share Posted June 28, 2017 I like this Chiefs team. I've seen 'em all since 1969. I went to all the home games that year. I like this team a lot. I guess that is why I am here. I'm a fan ( a shortened form of the word "fanatic" - something inherently irrational). Why are you here, Phatal? Does it satisfy some masochistic impulse? I don't always expect the team I root for to be the best team in the league. You've read enough of what I've written to know precisely how I feel about quarterbacks relative to the team. You also know why I don't think either the Chiefs' offense or defense is close to elite level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gil 243 Posted June 28, 2017 Share Posted June 28, 2017 That he has a higher ceiling than Smith is also speculation. They haven't developed a test that accurately projects Football IQ. But we know for a fact that Mahomes has a number of weaknesses in quarterbacking fundamentals, especially footwork. Mahomes indicated early on that there's so much for him to learn about the Chiefs' offense. Imagine him to be whatever makes you happy, but it's not without precedent that literally no one but Chiefs fans that hate having Smith at quarterback believes that Mahomes should start this season, and a number of those believe he should be given two years. He is that raw, and when quarterbacks are that raw, promoting them early tends to ruin them. Every rookie has "so much to learn". Saying he's not qualified to take a regular season snap is just silly, regurgitated conjecture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiefsfan1963 1,101 Posted June 28, 2017 Share Posted June 28, 2017 Tebow has as many playoff victories since 1994 as the Chiefs do...Then I guess Denver should have kept him if he was so valuable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhataLerror 370 Posted June 29, 2017 Share Posted June 29, 2017 Then I guess Denver should have kept him if he was so valuable. If the Broncos had not landed Peyton Manning, and Elway still insisted on getting rid of Tebow, that's a franchise that could have ended up in big trouble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KCSLC2008 606 Posted June 29, 2017 Share Posted June 29, 2017 There's a huge difference between attempting and succeeding. The Chiefs may attempt to win a Super Bowl with Mahomes, but validation comes from the result, not from the method. And it would be a validation that Mahomes was the right guy, not that drafting in the first round was right, though obviously you had to draft there to get Mahomes. Or it would mean that somebody had to play QB on a stacked team (years from now) and someone else drafted, signed, or traded for could have won. Too many moving pieces. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Handswarmer 645 Posted June 29, 2017 Share Posted June 29, 2017 Mahommes should start as a rookie, just like Joe Flacco. You know that Joe was the last healthy Qb on the roster, right? Boller was still the starter, hurt his shoulder. Troy Smith (Heisman trophy winner) got sick (pneumonia) before the last preseason game so Joe played. Then Joe started the season, won and kept winning. Rest is history Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhataLerror 370 Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 You know that Joe was the last healthy Qb on the roster, right? Boller was still the starter, hurt his shoulder. Troy Smith (Heisman trophy winner) got sick (pneumonia) before the last preseason game so Joe played. Then Joe started the season, won and kept winning. Rest is history So it could have been Kyle Boller that won a Super Bowl against the 49ers. I never knew that. (It certainly would never have been Troy Smith. He was Colin Kaepernick Light.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Handswarmer 645 Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 So it could have been Kyle Boller that won a Super Bowl against the 49ers. I never knew that. (It certainly would never have been Troy Smith. He was Colin Kaepernick Light.) No no no no no..................and no That was 2008. 2009 Boller was throwing INT's for the Raiders Smith lasted another 2 years and sucked. Like Tebow, good College QB couldn't translate into the pros. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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