xen 1,010,220 Posted November 4, 2017 Share Posted November 4, 2017 lol TRUE franchise quarterbacks. Like Alex. You should be his publicist. Or hype man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reesebobby 5,662 Posted November 4, 2017 Share Posted November 4, 2017 On what basis? Kirk Cousins hasn't been able to get his first long-term contract done. That in itself proves a lot: The Redskins won't pay enough to lock him up, and no one else will meet the Redskins' asking price. 32 General Managers don't agree with you, and Cousins lacks even one post-season victory. The burden of proof is on the argument for Cousins, not the argument against Cousins. If stats is all the argument for Cousins has, along with this supposed eye-test not presently validated by expert opinion, maybe there's something wrong with your position. I'll make a bet with you. I'll bet the next contract Cousins signs far exceeds any contract Alex has ever signed. And I guess that will be proof that the league disagrees with you. He most definitely would be on a long term contract right now if he wasn't franchised. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhataLerror 370 Posted November 5, 2017 Share Posted November 5, 2017 I'll make a bet with you. I'll bet the next contract Cousins signs far exceeds any contract Alex has ever signed. And I guess that will be proof that the league disagrees with you. He most definitely would be on a long term contract right now if he wasn't franchised. Crummy quarterbacks always take the top-dollar contract. It's the quarterbacks like Tom Brady that recognize that to win a championship, you can't take too big a slice of the salary cap pie. Cousins should take whatever he can get. He'll get a contract after this year, and it may be the biggest one he'll ever get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reesebobby 5,662 Posted November 5, 2017 Share Posted November 5, 2017 So let me get this straight. If he hasn't signed a big contract it's because all the GM's agree with you. But when he does, it's because he's a crummy quarterback? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xen 1,010,220 Posted November 5, 2017 Share Posted November 5, 2017 lol best thread ever... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calichief 3,016 Posted November 5, 2017 Share Posted November 5, 2017 Hold on - The best qb's in the league take less money ? Money taken relates to individual skill and play on the field? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhataLerror 370 Posted November 6, 2017 Share Posted November 6, 2017 Hold on - The best qb's in the league take less money ? Money taken relates to individual skill and play on the field? See Tom Brady. Undeniable. These quarterbacks are worth the guarantees. The biggest contracts are generally low on guarantees and with one-year out clauses if a quarterback underperforms and the team is ready to move on. But I certainly did not argue that a quarterback gets paid according to his play. Merely that a very good quarterback will be locked into a contract with more guaranteed money, which is the real thing we're talking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhataLerror 370 Posted November 6, 2017 Share Posted November 6, 2017 So let me get this straight. If he hasn't signed a big contract it's because all the GM's agree with you. But when he does, it's because he's a crummy quarterback? You didn't get it straight. You're looking for the gotcha. Re-read what I wrote. I was talking about term in Cousins' case as it relates to his current contract situation. He'll get dollars in his next contract, but he won't get the sort of dollars that guarantee term. The Chiefs have paid Alex Smith $58,500,000 since 2014. Kirk Cousins may finish his NFL career without earning that much money from 2018 onward. And that's acknowledging the fact that when Smith was extended by the Chiefs, the league didn't seem starved for starting-level quarterbacks. There are about a half-dozen teams in the league whose quarterbacks' futures are uncertain, and even then, I think Cousins' suitors are going to enter contract negotiations with a fair degree of skepticism concerning his actual ability. The Redskins' offense just scored 17 points on 13 possessions, and that wouldn't have been enough to win against the Seahawks had Blair Walsh been able to make just one of three field goal attempts. Kirk Cousins is overrated. Defense has been behind much of what Washington has accomplished. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xen 1,010,220 Posted November 6, 2017 Share Posted November 6, 2017 So you're saying alex smith was overpaid. Agreed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhataLerror 370 Posted November 6, 2017 Share Posted November 6, 2017 So you're saying alex smith was overpaid. Agreed. *shrug* Annually, he's paid much less than market rate for what he brings. Kirk Cousins will be overpaid for a couple years, and then fizzle out on a terrible team. At best, he'll end up in the Sam Bradford tier of quarterback, and that's pretty optimistic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reesebobby 5,662 Posted November 6, 2017 Share Posted November 6, 2017 You didn't get it straight. You're looking for the gotcha. Re-read what I wrote. I was talking about term in Cousins' case as it relates to his current contract situation. He'll get dollars in his next contract, but he won't get the sort of dollars that guarantee term. The Chiefs have paid Alex Smith $58,500,000 since 2014. Kirk Cousins may finish his NFL career without earning that much money from 2018 onward. And that's acknowledging the fact that when Smith was extended by the Chiefs, the league didn't seem starved for starting-level quarterbacks. There are about a half-dozen teams in the league whose quarterbacks' futures are uncertain, and even then, I think Cousins' suitors are going to enter contract negotiations with a fair degree of skepticism concerning his actual ability. The Redskins' offense just scored 17 points on 13 possessions, and that wouldn't have been enough to win against the Seahawks had Blair Walsh been able to make just one of three field goal attempts. Kirk Cousins is overrated. Defense has been behind much of what Washington has accomplished. Except for the following: He played his rookie contract and then was franchised twice because he rejected the long term contracts offered. Washington was #3 in total offense and #2 in passing offense in 2016. He will make 58 million in the next two and a half years. That's almost a certainty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calichief 3,016 Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 Nice comeback for cousins yesterday. Guys play hard for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieHard 2,061 Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 Cousins is solid. But his pay day will be elite range probably. Not sure it is worth it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhataLerror 370 Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 Except for the following: He played his rookie contract and then was franchised twice because he rejected the long term contracts offered. Washington was #3 in total offense and #2 in passing offense in 2016. He will make 58 million in the next two and a half years. That's almost a certainty. He won't be able to leverage his franchise tag value because the Redskins won't pay it. They've seen what they need to see: A quarterback that is a product of his team, not a quarterback that elevates his team. Most of the league sees that, too. The only reason I can't be more sure of his free agent market value is because you have teams like the Browns that are everlastingly on a search for even a marginal quarterback, and they may be willing to pay more than $20 million a year for a couple of years of mediocre quarterbacking before they move on yet again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reesebobby 5,662 Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 He won't be able to leverage his franchise tag value because the Redskins won't pay it. They've seen what they need to see: A quarterback that is a product of his team, not a quarterback that elevates his team. Most of the league sees that, too. The only reason I can't be more sure of his free agent market value is because you have teams like the Browns that are everlastingly on a search for even a marginal quarterback, and they may be willing to pay more than $20 million a year for a couple of years of mediocre quarterbacking before they move on yet again. He doesn't have to leverage it with the Redskins. Next year he'll most likely get the transition tag and be able to negotiate with other teams. If they exclusive tag him, the value is set so he doesn't have to leverage that either. It's 144 percent of his previous salary. If it's the transition tag, they'll either match what he's offered or he leaves. And we have no idea where he might go. Big Ben may retire. The Cardinals may be interested. As might the Broncos or the Bengals. Drew Brees is 38. Brady is 40. Manning is 36. Young quarterbacks that throw for lots of touchdowns, yards, and don't turn the ball over and are high character guys are valuable for some reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mloe68 1,521 Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 Alex is better than RGIII. I think we can all agree to that. When will RGIII file his collusion suit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhataLerror 370 Posted November 8, 2017 Share Posted November 8, 2017 He doesn't have to leverage it with the Redskins. Next year he'll most likely get the transition tag and be able to negotiate with other teams. If they exclusive tag him, the value is set so he doesn't have to leverage that either. It's 144 percent of his previous salary. If it's the transition tag, they'll either match what he's offered or he leaves. And we have no idea where he might go. Big Ben may retire. The Cardinals may be interested. As might the Broncos or the Bengals. Drew Brees is 38. Brady is 40. Manning is 36. Young quarterbacks that throw for lots of touchdowns, yards, and don't turn the ball over and are high character guys are valuable for some reason. Don't you think the teams with good quarterbacks could recognize how their quarterbacks are different from Cousins? No one says, "Cousins reminds me of Ben Roethlisberger," or, "Cousins reminds me of Brees". 2015 Peyton Manning was better than Cousins. Where in the world are you reading all of this Cousins hype? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reesebobby 5,662 Posted November 8, 2017 Share Posted November 8, 2017 When the chargers drafted Rivers do you think he reminded them of Brees? Or Luck reminded the Colts of manning? And where are you reading Alex Smith hype? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhataLerror 370 Posted November 8, 2017 Share Posted November 8, 2017 And where are you reading Alex Smith hype? There's very little. Perhaps the Smith for MVP nonsense, which I've downplayed from the start, because the Associated Press folks don't watch enough film to do anything but let stats trump actual player ability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhataLerror 370 Posted November 8, 2017 Share Posted November 8, 2017 When the chargers drafted Rivers do you think he reminded them of Brees? Or Luck reminded the Colts of manning? I don't know. Neither played in the same style as their predecessor. In any case, when the Chargers drafted Rivers and the Colts drafted Luck, they didn't have 50 NFL starts to look at as part of their evaluation. I'm not really sure where you're going with this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reesebobby 5,662 Posted November 8, 2017 Share Posted November 8, 2017 I'm going where you led us. You said teams with good quarterbacks recognize that Cousins is different than their current quarterback and implied that the Steelers wouldn't be interested because he's different than Roethlisberger. I'm sure the Chargers were pretty surprised when Rivers showed up for work and he was different than Brees. But without 50 NFL starts there would have been no way to know. Same with Luck. I bet they thought he was just like Manning, but that's the luck of the draw I guess. You'd think they would do a combine or watch them play in college. If only there was some way to know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAChiefsFan79 136 Posted November 18, 2017 Author Share Posted November 18, 2017 See Tom Brady. Undeniable. These quarterbacks are worth the guarantees. The biggest contracts are generally low on guarantees and with one-year out clauses if a quarterback underperforms and the team is ready to move on. But I certainly did not argue that a quarterback gets paid according to his play. Merely that a very good quarterback will be locked into a contract with more guaranteed money, which is the real thing we're talking about. Tom Brady is one of the rare QBs that restructured his contract to be team friendly to the cap. You are using him as your benchmark to criticize Cousins, yet you defend Alex Smith... Who didn't do the same thing as Brady. Hypocrisy much? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhataLerror 370 Posted November 19, 2017 Share Posted November 19, 2017 Tom Brady is one of the rare QBs that restructured his contract to be team friendly to the cap. You are using him as your benchmark to criticize Cousins, yet you defend Alex Smith... Who didn't do the same thing as Brady. Hypocrisy much? Following the signing of his slotted rookie contract, Smith has continually taken contracts where his contribution to the team (if not measured purely in statistics) brought far better value than a market-rate contract. There's no hypocrisy to this. These Chiefs were 2-14 before Smith arrived. The Chiefs have paid out very little money to turn this around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mloe68 1,521 Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 Following the signing of his slotted rookie contract, Smith has continually taken contracts where his contribution to the team (if not measured purely in statistics) brought far better value than a market-rate contract. There's no hypocrisy to this. These Chiefs were 2-14 before Smith arrived. The Chiefs have paid out very little money to turn this around. So comical you want to credit Alex Smith with most of these wins that were more a product of a ball hawking defense than anything he did. But then blame the team when they aren't winning and he's forced to actually perform like a 17-20 million dollar player should. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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