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It's time to roll with Mahomes


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A lot of things add up to my opinion here. First is just pure logic. VERY young kid that just turned 22 last month. Hes never lined up under center. Never had to call plays in the huddle. His very limited time playing football at any level means matters. Klif Kingbury seemed adamant he would need some time before he's really ready. People that cover the Chiefs on a daily basis say it's obvious Alex is still way ahead in grasp of offense. And add to that the reality Pat needed some major work on footwork and pocket presence as he had a major issue with drifting. Most importantly I trust Andy Reid to know when it's go time for the kid.

I haven't played quarterback since a junior high game in 1980 and my footwork and pocket presence is still better than Alex Smith's is currently. I literally do not think I've ever seen a quarterback more likely to just fall down than Alex.

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I haven't played quarterback since a junior high game in 1980 and my footwork and pocket presence is still better than Alex Smith's is currently. I literally do not think I've ever seen a quarterback more likely to just fall down than Alex.

Hard to disagree with that based on the last month. He was awful vs Pitt, Dallas and NY. But he's still out there selling out to make plays with his legs and I'm pretty confident a player vote would overwhelmingly want him to be our starter which speaks volumes about toughness and leadership. He's still on pace for about 4,000 yards and 28 TDs - 6 INTs. I think he will rebound. But I've got no qualms with putting offensive woes of the last month squarely on his back as well. We've got other issues, but he's gone down with the ship rather than pulling us out of the funk like a 17 million dollar player should.

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yep, and Andy Reid won't change anything to counter it.

Is it Andy? Or is it Smith?

 

I think its Smith. Teams are running Cover 2 and 3 against us, because that leaves defenders in the box to stop the run. Alex WILL NOT attack the seams in the zone because he seems afraid to throw the ball when the defenders are facing him.

 

The only time he will is when Kelce sits down in one, and is wide open...Sometimes he tries to force it to Kelce when he's not wide open.

 

I think if Smith will look at Robinson and Dat sometime, it will open up the offense. He looks at Kelce, then Hill, then he goes into happy feet mode.

 

I'm sick of AS11, and I'd be willing to bet that Reid, Kelce, Hill and the entire offensive side of the ball is tired of him too.

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Also noteworthy is Alex played poorly despite not being under much pressure.

 

PFF says: Smith was only pressured on seven of his 45 pass attempts, but it didn’t really matter, as he went 24 for 34 for 210 yards and two interceptions when he had time to throw.

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Also noteworthy is Alex played poorly despite not being under much pressure.

 

PFF says: Smith was only pressured on seven of his 45 pass attempts, but it didn’t really matter, as he went 24 for 34 for 210 yards and two interceptions when he had time to throw.

I think Alex perceived pressure on the other 38 attempts. I don't know what happened to him. I realize the line has been not great, but he looks like he is in Pamplona Spain trying to throw passes.

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That kids attitude and makeup are just as special as his athletic gifts. That is something that is evident in his words and body language. He is going to be special.

You play him if we continue to lose.

Let him learn and take it in to the offseason.

 

Yeah, I understand your point. I was listening to 810, and thought Herm Edwards made a good point about the Chiefs not having a good defense, and it may be bad putting Mahomes in now. I'm still on the fence about starting him, because once it's done it's hard to go back. I don't think all the Chiefs problems are all on Smith

 

Who is this Mchomes you are talking about?

 

Mahomes. Now that I've spelled it correctly, what do you think about what I typed? I assume you would like Reid to make the switch. 

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Hunt's average has gone down each of the last 4 games. In game 1 he had 17 carries and averaged 19.6 yards. Last week he had 18 carries and averaged 1.3 yards. Is it time to bench him? Has he regressed? Is he done?

 

No, Hunt's production is a direct reflection of the offensive line play. So is Smith's. If we start Mahomes right now, we are putting the kid in a terrible position and likely will get him hurt. Hell, we will be lucky if we don't hurt Hunt.

 

First 5 games:

Hunt around 500 yards on 97 carries (5 yd avg)

Smith around 1400 yards on 158 attempts  (9 yrd avg)

 

Last five games:

Hunt around 270 yards on 76 carries (3.5 yd avg)

Smith around 1300 yards on 175 attempts (7.4 yd avg)

 

The drop off of these 2 kind of mirrors each other. Hunt's avg dropped significantly more than Smith's, but my poihnt is... It's not a change in Hunt. And it's not a change in Smith. Its a drop off in the Oline. I would like to fix that before I end up reading updates on Mahomes' return from knee surgery. This guy is the future, not a bandaid to help us limp into the playoffs.

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Hunt's average has gone down each of the last 4 games. In game 1 he had 17 carries and averaged 19.6 yards. Last week he had 18 carries and averaged 1.3 yards. Is it time to bench him? Has he regressed? Is he done?

 

No, Hunt's production is a direct reflection of the offensive line play. So is Smith's. If we start Mahomes right now, we are putting the kid in a terrible position and likely will get him hurt. Hell, we will be lucky if we don't hurt Hunt.

 

First 5 games:

Hunt around 500 yards on 97 carries (5 yd avg)

Smith around 1400 yards on 158 attempts  (9 yrd avg)

 

Last five games:

Hunt around 270 yards on 76 carries (3.5 yd avg)

Smith around 1300 yards on 175 attempts (7.4 yd avg)

 

The drop off of these 2 kind of mirrors each other. Hunt's avg dropped significantly more than Smith's, but my poihnt is... It's not a change in Hunt. And it's not a change in Smith. Its a drop off in the Oline. I would like to fix that before I end up reading updates on Mahomes' return from knee surgery. This guy is the future, not a bandaid to help us limp into the playoffs.

It's also a possibility that Hunt's dropoff is because we can't throw the ball and they are able to stack the box. But I agree our line is just below average at best.

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Hunt's average has gone down each of the last 4 games. In game 1 he had 17 carries and averaged 19.6 yards. Last week he had 18 carries and averaged 1.3 yards. Is it time to bench him? Has he regressed? Is he done?

 

No, Hunt's production is a direct reflection of the offensive line play. So is Smith's. If we start Mahomes right now, we are putting the kid in a terrible position and likely will get him hurt. Hell, we will be lucky if we don't hurt Hunt.

 

First 5 games:

Hunt around 500 yards on 97 carries (5 yd avg)

Smith around 1400 yards on 158 attempts (9 yrd avg)

 

Last five games:

Hunt around 270 yards on 76 carries (3.5 yd avg)

Smith around 1300 yards on 175 attempts (7.4 yd avg)

 

The drop off of these 2 kind of mirrors each other. Hunt's avg dropped significantly more than Smith's, but my poihnt is... It's not a change in Hunt. And it's not a change in Smith. Its a drop off in the Oline. I would like to fix that before I end up reading updates on Mahomes' return from knee surgery. This guy is the future, not a bandaid to help us limp into the playoffs.

Alex wasn't under much pressure at all against NY. He played poorly anyway. Hunt averaged over 4 YPC which is hardly bad.

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A lot of things add up to my OPINION here. First is just pure logic. VERY young kid that just turned 22 last month. Hes never lined up under center. Never had to call plays in the huddle. His very limited time playing football at any level means matters. Klif Kingbury seemed adamant he would need some time before he's really ready. People that cover the Chiefs on a daily basis say it's obvious Alex is still way ahead in grasp of offense. And add to that the reality Pat needed some major work on footwork and pocket presence as he had a major issue with drifting. Most importantly I trust Andy Reid to know when it's go time for the kid. Andy has proven he is not afraid to swap QBs if it gives team the best chance to win.

 

Try to understand one thing. I'm completely ready to unleash the kid and live with the obvious growing pains that likely come with it. It's like having this great Christmas present under the tree that you can't play with yet.

I can't wait really for what will be a process we have not really seen here in my lifetime. If we only win 6 games next year with a surge of young talent and a 22 year old QB who's improving his QB IQ every week and has his talent. I can very much embrace that. Heck I'm flat excited about it.

I know others on this board especially will be rolling out laughable bust card with every INT though. LOL

 

I also believe Alex will rebound and gives the old guard it's best chance to get back to January and try to prove itself. If it becomes obvious we aren't going to be a playoff team or that offense isn't going to rebound under Alex, then maybe it would be time to get the new era started. This team has had its chances under the current core 30 plus year olds on their last leg. They rebuilt this organization into a solid consistent playoff team from the bowels of the league. And while it looks like this era is now dying a slow death, I'm still content to see it through knowing we are going to see something far different very soon. In other words I don't want to rush Pat in there before he's ready. These veterans probably deserve the best chance to win now. Whoever gives them that should be playing.

Sorry but these are excuses.

 

Dak Prescott came from a spread offense and he had to start week 1 last year. He was fine as a 22 year old starter.

DeShaun Watson played in a spread offense all through college and started playing week 1. He's 22 years old too.

Mitch Trubisky only played 13 college football games since high school. That's one season.

 

Mahomes has had OTA's, Training camp, preseason and more than 10 weeks in season to practice, review film and learn the playbook.

 

Andy said it himself when the kid was drafted. "We threw the kitchen sink at him mentally and he passed with flying colors."

Seriously, if he wasn't ready then he wouldn't be the backup.

 

It's a bunch of crap that this kid isn't ready but everyone else is.

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Sorry but these are excuses.

 

Dak Prescott came from a spread offense and he had to start week 1 last year. He was fine as a 22 year old starter.

DeShaun Watson played in a spread offense all through college and started playing week 1. He's 22 years old too.

Mitch Trubisky only played 13 college football games since high school. That's one season.

 

Mahomes has had OTA's, Training camp, preseason and more than 10 weeks in season to practice, review film and learn the playbook.

 

Andy said it himself when the kid was drafted. "We threw the kitchen sink at him mentally and he passed with flying colors."

Seriously, if he wasn't ready then he wouldn't be the backup.

 

It's a bunch of crap that this kid isn't ready but everyone else is.

Bunch of crap that the success rate in their rookie seasons of players this young is VERY small? It's not crap, just fact. A few of your facts are also off here. First off Dak Prescott was at Miss State for FIVE seasons, not THREE and thus opened his rookie season as a 23 year old. So yeah he was fine as a 22 year old starter in college. Mitch Trubisky is over a year older than Pat Mahomes II (I.E. he's NOT 22 either) starting out of complete necessity and has 4 freakin TD passes the entire season and is barely completing 50 percent of his passes. He's had several games this year he passed less than 10 times. D Watson is your guy if your looking for compelling evidence Mahomes should be good to go right off the batt.

Of course he's also perhaps the best college QB in th last two decades and without a doubt an exception to the rule.

Bottom line is there is no doubt advanced passing games in high school and college make the learning curve shorter from a pure passing standpoint. And I think Mahomes will be ready to fight through his natural learning curve soon. But that's pure speculation as only people that see him every day know. The question right now is simple and one that none of those other teams could legitimately ask because they all had scrub starters. Does Pat give us a better chance to win games right now. If that answer is yes. Then he sure as heck should be in there. I'm skeptical based on the reasons provided especially the fact Andy doesn't have him in there yet.

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Bunch of crap that the success rate in their rookie seasons of players this young is VERY small? It's not crap, just fact. A few of your facts are also off here. First off Dak Prescott was at Miss State for FIVE seasons, not THREE and thus opened his rookie season as a 23 year old. So yeah he was fine as a 22 year old starter in college. Mitch Trubisky is over a year older than Pat Mahomes II (I.E. he's NOT 22 either) starting out of complete necessity and has 4 freakin TD passes the entire season and is barely completing 50 percent of his passes. He's had several games this year he passed less than 10 times. D Watson is your guy if your looking for compelling evidence Mahomes should be good to go right off the batt.

Of course he's also perhaps the best college QB in th last two decades and without a doubt an exception to the rule.

Bottom line is there is no doubt advanced passing games in high school and college make the learning curve shorter from a pure passing standpoint. And I think Mahomes will be ready to fight through his natural learning curve soon. But that's pure speculation as only people that see him every day know. The question right now is simple and one that none of those other teams could legitimately ask because they all had scrub starters. Does Pat give us a better chance to win games right now. If that answer is yes. Then he sure as heck should be in there. I'm skeptical based on the reasons provided especially the fact Andy doesn't have him in there yet.

Don't care that Dak played 4 full years. He still played in a spread offense.

 

You are free to think this, but NFL history says you're wrong.

Marriotta came from a spread system, Cam did too and played one year of college ball. Jared Goff, Dak, Watson, etc. even Carson Wentz played immediately and he played at a small school!

 

The NFL is changing. More and more spread principles are being used than ever before to help QB's succeed and offenses score points.

 

Using Trubisky and others like Goff doesn't relate to Mahomes either. They struggled/are struggling bc of terrible coaching and bad talent. Jeff Fischer was a horrible offensive coach and right now John Fox is. Trubisky has zero WR's bc they are both on IR.

Meanwhile Pat has a solid pass protecting OL, a great trio of weapons in Hunt, Kelce & Hill and a damn good offensive coach. He's in the perfect place to succeed.

 

Idk what others have watched but I saw Alex and thought what all of us have thought: he's done. It's getting cold and windy which is Alex's kryptonite. He's not there mentally anymore and it looks like his shoulder is flaring up.

 

If Pat is this far behind and can't even get on the field at this point, that's horrific news. It would be like Paxton Lynch.

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Hunt's average has gone down each of the last 4 games. In game 1 he had 17 carries and averaged 19.6 yards. Last week he had 18 carries and averaged 1.3 yards. Is it time to bench him? Has he regressed? Is he done?

 

No, Hunt's production is a direct reflection of the offensive line play. So is Smith's. If we start Mahomes right now, we are putting the kid in a terrible position and likely will get him hurt. Hell, we will be lucky if we don't hurt Hunt.

 

First 5 games:

Hunt around 500 yards on 97 carries (5 yd avg)

Smith around 1400 yards on 158 attempts (9 yrd avg)

 

Last five games:

Hunt around 270 yards on 76 carries (3.5 yd avg)

Smith around 1300 yards on 175 attempts (7.4 yd avg)

 

The drop off of these 2 kind of mirrors each other. Hunt's avg dropped significantly more than Smith's, but my poihnt is... It's not a change in Hunt. And it's not a change in Smith. Its a drop off in the Oline. I would like to fix that before I end up reading updates on Mahomes' return from knee surgery. This guy is the future, not a bandaid to help us limp into the playoffs.

I know that this is not a reason to stick with Smith, but if Mahomes came in and got an ACL tear, we would stick with Smith another year and not be able to trade him. Or we would cut him or trade and then have some other guy get Mahomes reps next year.

 

If Reid feels that Mahomes will give us a better chance of winning the Super Bowl this year, put him in then. If Reid feels that we have no chance and we want to develop Mahomes on the field, do that. But otherwise, if there is a plus and minus playing him, if it's borderline in the QB developing guru (or so-called)'a mind, and we have the injury factor and the trade factor etc., play Smith and adjust your play calling and try to get better at other facets of the game. Get other players experience that will help Mahomes next year.

 

And yes, I realize that people can get injured slipping in the shower. They can get noncontact injuries as well. So I'm not saying that he definitely will get injured behind our line. I'm not saying sacrifice our window or opportunity to save him from some injury. I'm just saying that that is a possibility. I mean, let Smith face that possibility instead?

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Don't care that Dak played 4 full years. He still played in a spread offense.

 

You are free to think this, but NFL history says you're wrong.

Marriotta came from a spread system, Cam did too and played one year of college ball. Jared Goff, Dak, Watson, etc. even Carson Wentz played immediately and he played at a small school!

 

The NFL is changing. More and more spread principles are being used than ever before to help QB's succeed and offenses score points.

 

Using Trubisky and others like Goff doesn't relate to Mahomes either. They struggled/are struggling bc of terrible coaching and bad talent. Jeff Fischer was a horrible offensive coach and right now John Fox is. Trubisky has zero WR's bc they are both on IR.

Meanwhile Pat has a solid pass protecting OL, a great trio of weapons in Hunt, Kelce & Hill and a damn good offensive coach. He's in the perfect place to succeed.

 

Idk what others have watched but I saw Alex and thought what all of us have thought: he's done. It's getting cold and windy which is Alex's kryptonite. He's not there mentally anymore and it looks like his shoulder is flaring up.

 

If Pat is this far behind and can't even get on the field at this point, that's horrific news. It would be like Paxton Lynch.

Point here is you were wrong about Dak. He wasn't the same age and clearly came into the league with more experience. Do you think there is any chance we would be playing Mitch Trubisky over Alex Smith then I really don't have much more to say. He's playing because they have nobody else. Jared Goff didn't start until about this part of the season last year and was miserable and his team went 0-7. But why the heck not play him, because they sucked anyway. Mariota was solid his rookie year and still went 3-9 as a starter. Same thing applies. The team was awful so why not make the move. Rookie QBs with this little experience that were just 21 years old when the season started, don't find much success right away in this league. Thats just a fact. Those teams had to force issue. We do not.

All this is just pure semantics anyway. There's only one question that matters with a first place team fighting for a playoff spot. Which QB gives you the best chance to win? Alex Smith or Pat Mahomes II. Andy is going to play the guy he thinks is the better choice RIGHT NOW. And it's got zero with Mahomes being FAR behind. That's laughable. 

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Mahomes would probably provide a spark and would utilize the younger wide receivers as he probably practices with them on the second team but then other teams would figure that out and everyone will be clamoring for Smith to come back and that ship will have sailed. Take your lumps and stick with Smith and make some massive changes this offseason.

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I'm not convinced Mahomes is far behind where Smith currently is. The Smith of the first few games yes. I'd buy that.

Now that's a legit argument. The Alex we have seen the last month is worth replacing. If he's not helping us win what difference does it make even if Mahomes struggles.  Again I think Alex will turn it around, but even then I would have put Mahomes II in the game in the 4th quarter to spark the team on Sunday. 

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Yeah, I understand your point. I was listening to 810, and thought Herm Edwards made a good point about the Chiefs not having a good defense, and it may be bad putting Mahomes in now. I'm still on the fence about starting him, because once it's done it's hard to go back. I don't think all the Chiefs problems are all on Smith

 

 

 

Mahomes. Now that I've spelled it correctly, what do you think about what I typed? I assume you would like Reid to make the switch.

 

I would not take Smith out. We need him to play decent for draft day trade value. Benching him kills that
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It's also a possibility that Hunt's dropoff is because we can't throw the ball and they are able to stack the box.

You know what's crazy? I posted about this a day ago, and people are still parroting untruth.

 

I'm glad that we have Next-Gen Stats. Dumb things people have been saying against Smith for years are getting proven to be lies.

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