Is John Elway a Coach-Killer?

[KC Warpaint 3,234]

Mike Freeman's 10-Point Stance

Bleacher Report

 

November 22, 2017

 

Talk to team executives and assistant coaches about John Elway, and you come away with the notion that there is great admiration and respect for him and what he's done in leading the Broncos front office. Some genuinely adore him.

He built a Super Bowl winner. He won a recruiting battle to get Peyton Manning. He built a once-in-a-decade defense. Elway also was a legendary player who worked hard to understand how front offices and scouting work, which became apparent in the top-notch talent he added around him.

But his admirers are almost stunned by what they are seeing from Elway now.

 

One NFC assistant coach who describes himself as an Elway fan said Elway is increasingly being seen as a coach-killer.

"Coaches are starting to see the Broncos as a death trap," another assistant told B/R.

 

The cycle started three years ago. The Broncos made the Super Bowl in 2013 but lost to Seattle. Then, after a loss to Indianapolis in the divisional round the following year, coach John Fox was gone, despite having won 38 games over his final three seasons in Denver.

"I think in any relationship, whether it be player-coach, coach-GM, you're always going to have bumpy patches," Elway said at a news conference to announce Fox's departure in 2015. "I think the main thing between John and I was we disagreed how to get to the next level. We accomplished so much, four AFC West championships. But I think the biggest miss between us was how we can take that next step and what it was going to take to get to that next step. I think that's where that disagreement came from."

 

Fox's departure wasn't all unusual. These things happen. Coaching tenures run their course.

Elway didn't push out Gary Kubiak, but there wasn't much chance for the relationship to sour. Kubiak walked away after winning a Super Bowl and only two seasons on the Denver sideline.

 

But now comes the latest chapter in this awkward story, kicked off last week when Elway called his team soft. Coaches around the league saw the comments as a direct shot at his head coach, Vance Joseph.

 

Remarks like Elway's shouldn't be aired publicly, the coaches with whom I communicated said.

Days after Elway's comments, the team's offensive coordinator, Mike McCoy, was fired.

 

"It was my decision," Joseph said at a news conference, according to the team's transcript. "It was my decision only. John and I talk every day about the football team. He watches every practice and every meeting, but it was my decision."

 

Few people in football believe that. They say Elway's fingerprints are all over the move.

Team officials across the sport believe Elway is using Joseph and McCoy as scapegoats for his poor quarterback moves. Trevor Siemian has been awful. Brock Osweiler has been putrid and, according to ESPN's Dan Graziano, will get benched for Paxton Lynch. And there's no indication Lynch will be any good, either.

 

The common thread tying the three together: all were Elway decisions.

 

It's rare when you can trace a franchise's successes and failures so clearly to one man. But in the same way Denver's recent Super Bowl appearances can be traced to Elway, the struggles of the team can also be traced to him. Heading into the Thanksgiving weekend, Denver is 3-7 and in last place in the AFC West. That isn't because it is soft but because it lacks continuity.

 

Coaches around the NFL with whom I spoke believe more sideline changes are on the way for the Broncos. In other words, Joseph isn't safe.

As respected as he is as a player and executive, Elway is gaining a reputation as someone who is rash and impatient with his coaching staffs, someone who sees coaches as disposable. And someone who isn't taking full responsibility for his personnel decisions.

[oldtimer 8,686]

interesting take

[Mloe68 1,521]

Elway seems to be completely unrealistic about his teams ability to consistently win without a consistent QB and takes that out on his coaches. And now he actually has a bad coach. And this QB deal is Elways fault. I credit him for valuing the position and constantly trying to get a QB. But he's ironically been flat miserable at drafting QBs. He got lucky as heck with Manning or else more people would see this massive issue for them.

 

He'd. I think the Chiefs actually goaded him into trading up for Lynch. And worse thing is they have great WRs.

[BroncoStud 3,253]

I get what the author is TRYING to say, and Elway isn't without his leadership flaws, but come on...

 

John Fox rode Manning's coattails.  Fox will never get a team to the level of winning a Super Bowl, he's just not that good.  He got completely out-witted against Pete Carroll in the Super Bowl, it was laughable how much better prepared the Seahawks were, especially when it came to the Denver defense, for which Fox is supposed to be a guru (yeah right).  His tenure with the Bears is atrocious.

 

Kubiak came in and won a Super Bowl.  Kubiak is one of Elway's best friends and his career backup QB, and was his OC under Shanahan, so it all made sense.  Kubiak didn't quit because Elway was going to "kill his career", he quit because he was told by medical professionals that if he continued to coach in the NFL he would die from heart trauma.  So he retired.

 

Then Elway hired another good friend, Vance Joseph, who immediately fired Wade Phillips (which looks f'ing stupid right now).  Then Elway found out like the rest of us that Vance Joseph is a horrible head coach and gets schooled ever week.  So now Elway is back into a corner because he made a horrible hire.  Vance Joseph will be fired and Elway will find a more permanent and higher profile replacement for him.

 

The ironic part of the Elway front office is that he appears to SUCK at selecting offensive players but he's great at building defenses.  I think the Broncos will go heavy after a QBOTF because he knows how important that position is to success.

[Mloe68 1,521]

I get what the author is TRYING to say, and Elway isn't without his leadership flaws, but come on...

 

John Fox rode Manning's coattails. Fox will never get a team to the level of winning a Super Bowl, he's just not that good. He got completely out-witted against Pete Carroll in the Super Bowl, it was laughable how much better prepared the Seahawks were, especially when it came to the Denver defense, for which Fox is supposed to be a guru (yeah right). His tenure with the Bears is atrocious.

 

Kubiak came in and won a Super Bowl. Kubiak is one of Elway's best friends and his career backup QB, and was his OC under Shanahan, so it all made sense. Kubiak didn't quit because Elway was going to "kill his career", he quit because he was told by medical professionals that if he continued to coach in the NFL he would die from heart trauma. So he retired.

 

Then Elway hired another good friend, Vance Joseph, who immediately fired Wade Phillips (which looks f'ing stupid right now). Then Elway found out like the rest of us that Vance Joseph is a horrible head coach and gets schooled ever week. So now Elway is back into a corner because he made a horrible hire. Vance Joseph will be fired and Elway will find a more permanent and higher profile replacement for him.

 

The ironic part of the Elway front office is that he appears to SUCK at selecting offensive players but he's great at building defenses. I think the Broncos will go heavy after a QBOTF because he knows how important that position is to success.

Again I think it's pretty simple. Elway has been bad at drafting QBs and nothing is a coach killer more than a bad QB.

 

John Fox did get a Jake Delhiome team to the Super Bowl but same thing applies to him in Chicago. Bad QB play. He's won two games this year where his QB had 5 or less completions. He won a game st Arrowhead with Tebow completing 2 passes. That's pretty good coaching.

[BroncoStud 3,253]

A John Fox apologist LOL...  Fox, who seems a like a really nice guy, hasn't won a Super Bowl in 2 decades a head coach.  He's a decent coach but not a great one, he never will be.  And that's ok, but Elway didn't "kill his career", that's just the blind hatred for Denver seething out of you.  Fox is a lot like Andy Reid, good but not great.

[xen 1,010,220]

Gary kubiak wasn't a great coach. He had wade and peyton and they got hot at the right time.

[BroncoStud 3,253]

Gary kubiak wasn't a great coach. He had wade and peyton and they got hot at the right time.

Peyton was not only injured for half the season, he got benched for Osweiler, and beyond that his arm was dead...  Kubiak did a great job that season of having Denver ready to win every week.  One of the better coaching performances in recent history in my opinion.

[xen 1,010,220]

Peyton was not only injured for half the season, he got benched for Osweiler, and beyond that his arm was dead... Kubiak did a great job that season of having Denver ready to win every week. One of the better coaching performances in recent history in my opinion.

Meh. Without peyton they don't win that superbowl. Period.

[Mloe68 1,521]

A John Fox apologist LOL... Fox, who seems a like a really nice guy, hasn't won a Super Bowl in 2 decades a head coach. He's a decent coach but not a great one, he never will be. And that's ok, but Elway didn't "kill his career", that's just the blind hatred for Denver seething out of you. Fox is a lot like Andy Reid, good but not great.

Good coaches are great mainly for one reason. They have really good QBs. And again on point what I actually said is that the ultimate coach killer is a bad QB. And that's all Elway has drafted for his coaches since he got there. It's that simple.

I could not care less about John Fox. He's an overall solid cosch that's it. Winning with Tim Tebow isn't easy. That's my point.

[BroncoStud 3,253]

Good coaches are great mainly for one reason. They have really good QBs. And again on point what I actually said is that the ultimate coach killer is a bad QB. And that's all Elway has drafted for his coaches since he got there. It's that simple.

I could not care less about John Fox. He's an overall solid cosch that's it. Winning with Tim Tebow isn't easy. That's my point.

Great QBs don't grow on trees, if there were a plethora of them, more teams own one.  Last year Dak Prescott looked like a QBotF, now he looks like an NFL backup.  Even Andrew Luck, who was the most sure bet in recent NFL history hasn't lived up to hype and may never be the same again after injuries.  Cam Newton sometimes can't read a defense to save his life or throw a ball anywhere near tight coverage...

 

I think Elway wants to rebuild the OL, which is smart, and keep the defense intact, which is also smart, but as long as Vance Joseph is the HC, it won't matter.  He's truly awful.

[Mloe68 1,521]

Great QBs don't grow on trees, if there were a plethora of them, more teams own one. Last year Dak Prescott looked like a QBotF, now he looks like an NFL backup. Even Andrew Luck, who was the most sure bet in recent NFL history hasn't lived up to hype and may never be the same again after injuries. Cam Newton sometimes can't read a defense to save his life or throw a ball anywhere near tight coverage...

 

I think Elway wants to rebuild the OL, which is smart, and keep the defense intact, which is also smart, but as long as Vance Joseph is the HC, it won't matter. He's truly awful.

Great QBs are extremely hard to find. But it shouldn't be that tough to find competent guys who could complement the defense Denver is wasting. That oline is certainly part of the issue too Why Elway signed our scrub OT and made him the starter there, I will never understand. It's that type of stuff in general which unfairly kills coaches. Joseph does suck though in his own right regardless. We've had coaches like that and it's not hard to recognize incompetent game plans and general looking lost.