Could this be why Dorsey got canned?

[Dablueguy 0]

Your agenda full of facts never seems to include the fact that Dorsey was possibly the worst GM in the league with regard to cap management. But maybe you think that cap space is one of those minor details.

1)The Big contracts were not signed in a Vacuum.  Hunt was in on every one, and probably alot more than we know.  That's why they were long, drawn out processes.  Ownership is always involved in those.  

 

2)Dorsey recognized he needed improvement in cap managing.   That's why he fired the guy that was there.   Then the Idiot Hunt Fired HIM.   4 GM's, 5 HC's in a decade.  And here we are.  

[reesebobby 5,663]

1)The Big contracts were not signed in a Vacuum.  Hunt was in on every one, and probably alot more than we know.  That's why they were long, drawn out processes.  Ownership is always involved in those.  

 

2)Dorsey recognized he needed improvement in cap managing.   That's why he fired the guy that was there.   Then the Idiot Hunt Fired HIM.   4 GM's, 5 HC's in a decade.  And here we are.

So the stuff he did that was bad was Clark's fault and not in a vacuum and the stuff that he did that was good was him being good? I wish I lived in a world where the parts I suck at are somebody else's fault. He was the freaking General Manager. He shat all over himself on a host of big contracts and all you can say is they weren't done in a vacuum?

 

You're worried about Revis and not Hali? Good thinking.

[moons314 2,463]

Your agenda full of facts never seems to include the fact that Dorsey was possibly the worst GM in the league with regard to cap management. But maybe you think that cap space is one of those minor details.

Cap management is on Dorsey. Reid gets equal if not more blame for the roster. It’s reids show.

[Dablueguy 0]

So the stuff he did that was bad was Clark's fault and not in a vacuum and the stuff that he did that was good was him being good? I wish I lived in a world where the parts I suck at are somebody else's fault. He was the freaking General Manager. He shat all over himself on a host of big contracts and all you can say is they weren't done in a vacuum?

 

You're worried about Revis and not Hali? Good thinking.

Nope, I blamed Dorsey when he made mistakes.  Including the 2nd Hali contract, but that was a promise he made to Hali for the renegotiation he did the year before.  Including the ridiculous drafting of Kevin Hogan, and a Full Back in his 1st draft.   And his sloppy handling of cutting Maclin.  And some of his bad vet early signings, which he learned from.  Etc.   I've never had any problem criticising Dorsey. 

But the fact is, huge, franchise altering contracts are not done in a vacuum, much as you want to solely blame Dorsey for them.  Remember how Hunt had to step in at the last minute to keep Berry.   Now I agree with Hunt on that one, but it illustrates how involved Ownership gets in mega contracts.  

Damn straight I'm worried about the horrid Revis signing.   Because it shows what path Veach might take in Free Agency.   And it would be a path to destroying this team.   Why would I worry about Hali?   That was done 3 years ago, by a different guy then is here now.  

 

Overall, Dorsey was a top notch GM, and he'll use his great resume to get a GM job again, hopefully this offseason.  And probably build up his new team as quickly and impressively as he did the Chiefs.  

[reesebobby 5,663]

Cap management is on Dorsey. Reid gets equal if not more blame for the roster. It’s reids show.

I think not. But we can agree to disagree. I'd believe that he has some high level decision making. Like, "Hey I could use a quarterback and I think Mahomes is a good fit for what I'm wanting to do". But I doubt he had much to do with Ragland other than saying "Our linebackers are a big steaming pile of horseshit. Please find somebody" None the less if all Dorsey did was cap management and contracts, then he is worse than we could have imagined and Reid is poor at roster management. But I suspect Dorsey was bad at cap management and over rated at roster management.

[reesebobby 5,663]

Nope, I blamed Dorsey when he made mistakes.  Including the 2nd Hali contract, but that was a promise he made to Hali for the renegotiation he did the year before.  Including the ridiculous drafting of Kevin Hogan, and a Full Back in his 1st draft.   And his sloppy handling of cutting Maclin.  And some of his bad vet early signings, which he learned from.  Etc.   I've never had any problem criticising Dorsey. 

But the fact is, huge, franchise altering contracts are not done in a vacuum, much as you want to solely blame Dorsey for them.  Remember how Hunt had to step in at the last minute to keep Berry.   Now I agree with Hunt on that one, but it illustrates how involved Ownership gets in mega contracts.  

Damn straight I'm worried about the horrid Revis signing.   Because it shows what path Veach might take in Free Agency.   And it would be a path to destroying this team.   Why would I worry about Hali?   That was done 3 years ago, by a different guy then is here now.  

 

Overall, Dorsey was a top notch GM, and he'll use his great resume to get a GM job again, hopefully this offseason.  And probably build up his new team as quickly and impressively as he did the Chiefs.

Ok. Yay Dorsey. Whatever.

[Mloe68 1,521]

 

Nope, I blamed Dorsey when he made mistakes.  Including the 2nd Hali contract, but that was a promise he made to Hali for the renegotiation he did the year before.  Including the ridiculous drafting of Kevin Hogan, and a Full Back in his 1st draft.   And his sloppy handling of cutting Maclin.  And some of his bad vet early signings, which he learned from.  Etc.   I've never had any problem criticising Dorsey. 

But the fact is, huge, franchise altering contracts are not done in a vacuum, much as you want to solely blame Dorsey for them.  Remember how Hunt had to step in at the last minute to keep Berry.   Now I agree with Hunt on that one, but it illustrates how involved Ownership gets in mega contracts.  

Damn straight I'm worried about the horrid Revis signing.   Because it shows what path Veach might take in Free Agency.   And it would be a path to destroying this team.   Why would I worry about Hali?   That was done 3 years ago, by a different guy then is here now.  

 

Overall, Dorsey was a top notch GM, and he'll use his great resume to get a GM job again, hopefully this offseason.  And probably build up his new team as quickly and impressively as he did the Chiefs.  

Dorsey had another monumental bust in Russell which is killing us today. The second round pick on Gaines has been really bad. Thus forcing Veach to throw darts at the board to help the weakest CB depth in the league. He ignored ILB despite an aging injury riddled DJ and nobody else of consequence. Thus forcing Veach to have to find a guy in training camp. He left the WR group with zero veteran presence because of mismanagement of the salary cap.  He gave LDT and Sorenson large extensions to which they are again both majorly under performing. And 8 million to Tamba may be the most laughable ridiculous thing any GM has ever done here. Evidence mounting I was wrong to be mad at Clark Hunt for firing Dorsey who apparently saw this cliff coming. Veach inherited much more of a mess than any of us realized. Those are the facts that are much more compelling to impacting this team than any $300,000 late season signing made because we were desperate. In fact Ragland and Butker give Veach an A plus so far. Can you imagine picking up a likely Pro Bowler off another teams practice squad in October. 

[reesebobby 5,663]

Dorsey had another monumental bust in Russell which is killing us today. The second round pick on Gaines has been really bad. Thus forcing Veach to throw darts at the board to help the weakest CB depth in the league. He ignored ILB despite an aging injury riddled DJ and nobody else of consequence. Thus forcing Veach to have to find a guy in training camp. He left the WR group with zero veteran presence because of mismanagement of the salary cap.  He gave LDT and Sorenson large extensions to which they are again both majorly under performing. And 8 million to Tamba may be the most laughable ridiculous thing any GM has ever done here. Evidence mounting I was wrong to be mad at Clark Hunt for firing Dorsey who apparently saw this cliff coming. Veach inherited much more of a mess than any of us realized. Those are the facts that are much more compelling to impacting this team than any $300,000 late season signing made because we were desperate. In fact Ragland and Butker give Veach an A plus so far. Can you imagine picking up a likely Pro Bowler off another teams practice squad in October.

 

Third round draft picks are not made in a vacuum. It wasn't his fault. Other people probably signed off on it. Gee.

[Chiefswinitall 60]

Did Clark Hunt force dorsey to resign Berry and Houston?

[reesebobby 5,663]

Dorsey had another monumental bust in Russell which is killing us today. The second round pick on Gaines has been really bad. Thus forcing Veach to throw darts at the board to help the weakest CB depth in the league. He ignored ILB despite an aging injury riddled DJ and nobody else of consequence. Thus forcing Veach to have to find a guy in training camp. He left the WR group with zero veteran presence because of mismanagement of the salary cap.  He gave LDT and Sorenson large extensions to which they are again both majorly under performing. And 8 million to Tamba may be the most laughable ridiculous thing any GM has ever done here. Evidence mounting I was wrong to be mad at Clark Hunt for firing Dorsey who apparently saw this cliff coming. Veach inherited much more of a mess than any of us realized. Those are the facts that are much more compelling to impacting this team than any $300,000 late season signing made because we were desperate. In fact Ragland and Butker give Veach an A plus so far. Can you imagine picking up a likely Pro Bowler off another teams practice squad in October. 

I read somewhere that Dorsey's dog ate his notes on that draft.  

[Dablueguy 0]

Did Clark Hunt force dorsey to resign Berry and Houston?

Berry yes, if you believe the numerous reports that stated it.   

[Dablueguy 0]

I read somewhere that Dorsey's dog ate his notes on that draft.  

Might have been Andy's lap dog Veach.   

[Dablueguy 0]

Third round draft picks are not made in a vacuum. It wasn't his fault. Other people probably signed off on it. Gee.

Surrender noted and accepted.   

[soonerborn77 276]

Nope, I blamed Dorsey when he made mistakes.  Including the 2nd Hali contract, but that was a promise he made to Hali for the renegotiation he did the year before.  Including the ridiculous drafting of Kevin Hogan, and a Full Back in his 1st draft.   And his sloppy handling of cutting Maclin.  And some of his bad vet early signings, which he learned from.  Etc.   I've never had any problem criticising Dorsey. 

But the fact is, huge, franchise altering contracts are not done in a vacuum, much as you want to solely blame Dorsey for them.  Remember how Hunt had to step in at the last minute to keep Berry.   Now I agree with Hunt on that one, but it illustrates how involved Ownership gets in mega contracts.  

Damn straight I'm worried about the horrid Revis signing.   Because it shows what path Veach might take in Free Agency.   And it would be a path to destroying this team.   Why would I worry about Hali?   That was done 3 years ago, by a different guy then is here now.  

 

Overall, Dorsey was a top notch GM, and he'll use his great resume to get a GM job again, hopefully this offseason.  And probably build up his new team as quickly and impressively as he did the Chiefs.

 

What about Gaines and Russell, you only keep saying Hogan? Ford as a first rounder also now looks like unless he does a 180 will go in the bust category. Also what do you mean Hali was done by a different guy, not following there.

[Dablueguy 0]

What about Gaines and Russell, you only keep saying Hogan? Ford as a first rounder also now looks like unless he does a 180 will go in the bust category. Also what do you mean Hali was done by a different guy, not following there.

Gaines was a good player until he got hurt.   Hasn't come back from his ACL, and is shot.   Russell was a bust.   But I am talking about players that it was stupid to draft in the 1st place when I talk about Hogan or the Fullback.   

Ford has been disappointing, but not a bust.  He's shown flashes, although not enough, and now his ongoing health seems to be a big question mark.

 

Hali's contract was done 3 years ago, by a guy who is no longer here, as a promise for a much needed cut the year before.  It's stupid to compare it to the current abomination of the Revis signing, by the current guy., or complain about it going forward.  It was a bad contract, period.   Dorsey won't be signing contracts like Hali's anymore, but Veach might very well be signing one's like Revis's, and if that's the case, this franchise is doomed to failure for a pretty long time.   

[Calichief 3,016]

Nuclear winter couldn’t make me miss that smug piece of shit. King Carl good riddance.

Couldn’t agree more.

All he has to do was get Marty just a couple of weapons.

[PAChiefsFan79 136]

My "agenda" is facts. Dorsey isn't here. To blame him for this recent collapse, reeks of an agenda. Dorsey didn't sign Revis. Dorsey didn't fail to sign Alex Collins, or other young players around that might have helped. That's what he did through his 4 years. His record here speaks for itself, and will get him the top job elsewhere. Complete turnaround quick, and continued good team for 4 years. The year he's not here, the wheels are falling off. Those are facts.

Giving him blame doesn't "reek of an agenda". He is largely responsible for this current roster. Had the Chiefs gone undefeated you would be praising him for gifting this roster to Veach. That said, there is plenty of blame to go around and Veach is included. And Reid. And the scouting department. Blaming 1 individual is lazy.

[Dablueguy 0]

Giving him blame doesn't "reek of an agenda". He is largely responsible for this current roster. Had the Chiefs gone undefeated you would be praising him for gifting this roster to Veach. That said, there is plenty of blame to go around and Veach is included. And Reid. And the scouting department. Blaming 1 individual is lazy.

I agree with the bolded.  

[Mloe68 1,521]

Third round draft picks are not made in a vacuum. It wasn't his fault. Other people probably signed off on it. Gee.

Third round cuts that are cut in training camp of their rookie seasons are horrendous busts for an organization. You rarely ever see it. Group effort to take Russell? Yes of course like every pick.

[reesebobby 5,663]

It was a parody.

[Mloe68 1,521]

Giving him blame doesn't "reek of an agenda". He is largely responsible for this current roster. Had the Chiefs gone undefeated you would be praising him for gifting this roster to Veach. That said, there is plenty of blame to go around and Veach is included. And Reid. And the scouting department. Blaming 1 individual is lazy.

Spot on. Blaming any one guy or player for our issues is burying our head in the sand to reality. But this is without question Dorsey and Andys roster and they both must accept the majority of the blame to go along with the credit they've been getting the last four years. Phase one of the plan looks like it hit a wall before they could pull plug this offseason. In general it was a good 5 year run. Now Veach will turn the page and we will see what he can do in earnest to turn a good run into a great one the next five years. Operation Lombardi or bust starts Jan 1.

[sith13 1,746]

What about Gaines and Russell, you only keep saying Hogan? Ford as a first rounder also now looks like unless he does a 180 will go in the bust category. Also what do you mean Hali was done by a different guy, not following there.

 

I think Gaines was a great pick. A lot of potential coming out of college and definitely worth a shot. He came up pretty good to begin with but has been getting worse in both physical and mental aspects of the game with every injury. Rather than a mistake he's a good pick that hasn't worked out. Russell is a terrible pick though, cutting the 3rd rounder before the season starts means that the scouting department messed up big time. 

[reesebobby 5,663]

I think Gaines was a great pick. A lot of potential coming out of college and definitely worth a shot. He came up pretty good to begin with but has been getting worse in both physical and mental aspects of the game with every injury. Rather than a mistake he's a good pick that hasn't worked out. Russell is a terrible pick though, cutting the 3rd rounder before the season starts means that the scouting department messed up big time. 

 

I doubt you knew much about a cornerback from Rice coming out of college.  I know I didn't.  

 

This analysis is pretty spot on.  

 

 

Weaknesses

Durability is a concern. Has been dinged up. Underdeveloped and underpowered. Does not play to timed speed. Not equipped to handle man-to-man responsibility. Poor run supporter and tackler. Does not project as a core special-teams player. Tweener traits.

Draft Projection Rounds 4-5 Bottom Line Lean, active zone corner whose ball skills will have to carry him. Could earn a roster spot on pure measurables but lacks desirable functional speed, strength and physicality.

 

 

http://www.nfl.com/draft/2014/profiles/phillip-gaines?id=2543851

[oldtimer 8,687]

Herm Edwards called Gaines coming out of the Draft.." the best Corner you've never heard of" . I always thought Herm was a pretty decent judge of talent especially in the DB realm but he sure wiffed on that one.

[sith13 1,746]

I doubt you knew much about a cornerback from Rice coming out of college.  I know I didn't.  

 

This analysis is pretty spot on.  

 

 

Weaknesses

Durability is a concern. Has been dinged up. Underdeveloped and underpowered. Does not play to timed speed. Not equipped to handle man-to-man responsibility. Poor run supporter and tackler. Does not project as a core special-teams player. Tweener traits.

Draft Projection Rounds 4-5 Bottom Line Lean, active zone corner whose ball skills will have to carry him. Could earn a roster spot on pure measurables but lacks desirable functional speed, strength and physicality.

 

 

http://www.nfl.com/draft/2014/profiles/phillip-gaines?id=2543851

 

Had no idea that he existed until the pick but looking at the reports after making the pick it was a great move IMO. That's how we learn about most of the draft picks. The weaknesses seem to be very spot on. Even though I think he had decent speed he sure lacks durability and more of a zone guy. Obviously that's before the injuries, right now he looks more like a couch guy.