Chiefswinitall 60 Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 If the defensive players have given up then why wait to fire him? It would be great to see someone else take the reigns with a new approach. It would be nice to see Justin Houston be a pass rusher again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhataLerror 370 Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 It would be nice to see Justin Houston be a pass rusher again. Then watch tape from the old days. That Justin Houston's not coming back regardless of who coordinates the defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kcchief4lif 910 Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 Then watch tape from the old days. That Justin Houston's not coming back regardless of who coordinates the defense. Yep.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mloe68 1,521 Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 If the defensive players have given up then why wait to fire him? It would be great to see someone else take the reigns with a new approach. It would be nice to see Justin Houston be a pass rusher again. He's had sacks in 4 of our first 5 games and is still on pace for 11 sacks which would be the second most of his career. Did he aggravate an injury after that first month to slow him down? Possible. Also about the time Dee Ford became completely useless with his back issue he tried to play through. Sutton carries way to much blame for a unit that's lost so much in the last year. Just a shell of the dominant defense we had. Either way I'd like to see new blood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiefThunder 153 Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 He's had sacks in 4 of our first 5 games and is still on pace for 11 sacks which would be the second most of his career. Did he aggravate an injury after that first month to slow him down? Possible. Also about the time Dee Ford became completely useless with his back issue he tried to play through. Sutton carries way to much blame for a unit that's lost so much in the last year. Just a shell of the dominant defense we had. Either way I'd like to see new blood. I would say Sutton does carry the blame because of his lack of adjustments and he can't come up with ways to pressure the QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mloe68 1,521 Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 I would say Sutton does carry the blame because of his lack of adjustments and he can't come up with ways to pressure the QB. Agree he could do more. In fact he seemed to dial up some pressure late vs NYJ that was helping speed up McCown. But my point is our pass rush has been devestatrd by age and injury. There's only one guy left and he's also our best run defender. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moons314 2,463 Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 Agree he could do more. In fact he seemed to dial up some pressure late vs NYJ that was helping speed up McCown. But my point is our pass rush has been devestatrd by age and injury. There's only one guy left and he's also our best run defender. I’m not sure what more he could do? The popular theme is to scream blitz, but our back end is so bad, what do we think is gonna happen if we start bringing extra guys for the sake of pressure? You know I’m no Sutton apologist, but you are right, the defensive personnel really hinder the options. There are too many guys on that side of the ball who have no business being on the team, and regardless of dc, it’s gonna take more than one offseason to fix the defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DefensiveMan 758 Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 Sutton thinks there are too many threads here about him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calichief 3,016 Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 Then watch tape from the old days. That Justin Houston's not coming back regardless of who coordinates the defense.I disagree. Needs the right co. And I’m sure we’ll see full potential. James Harrison and others still killing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calichief 3,016 Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 Yep.... You guys act like he’s 42 years old Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biggjliv4 1,292 Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 Why fire Sutton? Didn't you all hear Andy? They are going to coach better and do better this week, it's all going to be good now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiefswinitall 60 Posted December 9, 2017 Author Share Posted December 9, 2017 I disagree. Needs the right co. And I’m sure we’ll see full potential. James Harrison and others still killing it. I can't tell if he's demoralized or just old, or injured. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calichief 3,016 Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 I can't tell if he's demoralized or just old, or injured.He’s hardly old. He’s being used wrong. He’s highly rated run stopper currently.He is probably not fully healthy either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mloe68 1,521 Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 He’s hardly old. He’s being used wrong. He’s highly rated run stopper currently. He is probably not fully healthy either. He started season off like a superstar but then sat out some practices with a sore knee and perhaps hasn't quite been the same since. Plus we were getting crushed in running game and he's our only LB that can set edge and force play inside him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieHard 2,061 Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 It’s hard to justify not utilizing one of the best coverage and run stuffing OLB as nothing but a pass rusher. 75% of the time he rushes the passer. Should it be 100%? When that is the weakest part of his game today? Should Sutton play a traditional 3-4 and trust our CBs and Ss to shut down opposing WRs? I struggle to understand what exactly we expect from him. With this personnel. How would you play this D? Not trying to be argumentative, but I don’t know what I would do if I were Sutton. What would you do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lamardirts 2,114 Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 It’s hard to justify not utilizing one of the best coverage and run stuffing OLB as nothing but a pass rusher. 75% of the time he rushes the passer. Should it be 100%? When that is the weakest part of his game today? Should Sutton play a traditional 3-4 and trust our CBs and Ss to shut down opposing WRs? I struggle to understand what exactly we expect from him. With this personnel. How would you play this D? Not trying to be argumentative, but I don’t know what I would do if I were Sutton. What would you do? I expect the DC to develop the talent he's been given for the past 3 years. I'm not expecting HOFers but solid and serviceable guys. I blame Dorsey and Sutton for so many blown picks, overpaid past their prime contracts and a very vanilla defensive scheme. You are right that our players aren't that great but this isn't year one and this isn't the DV era defense were we never invested in that side of the ball. The product this year, completely his fault or not is unacceptable and should cost him his job. We are like dead last on D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieHard 2,061 Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 I expect the DC to develop the talent he's been given for the past 3 years. I'm not expecting HOFers but solid and serviceable guys. I blame Dorsey and Sutton for so many blown picks, overpaid past their prime contracts and a very vanilla defensive scheme. You are right that our players aren't that great but this isn't year one and this isn't the DV era defense were we never invested in that side of the ball. The product this year, completely his fault or not is unacceptable and should cost him his job. We are like dead last on D. That is a fair point. I would say Houston, DJ and Berry are eating up most of that money and they are plagued with injuries. Not sure how much Sutton was involved in those signings. The point about development is a good one. None of the DBs have really delevoped. Peters and Berry are just natural talents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mloe68 1,521 Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 It’s hard to justify not utilizing one of the best coverage and run stuffing OLB as nothing but a pass rusher. 75% of the time he rushes the passer. Should it be 100%? When that is the weakest part of his game today? Should Sutton play a traditional 3-4 and trust our CBs and Ss to shut down opposing WRs? I struggle to understand what exactly we expect from him. With this personnel. How would you play this D? Not trying to be argumentative, but I don’t know what I would do if I were Sutton. What would you do? 100 percent agree. I’d like to see him mix coverages and throw in a few tactical blitzes but overall Sutton is hamstrung by personel. You need a few guys who are skilled st blitzing to pull it off especially with the back end issues we have in coverage. I don’t like when he makes statements like yesterday that we really can’t chsnge anything minus Peters, but overall there’s not a ton he can do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mloe68 1,521 Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 I expect the DC to develop the talent he's been given for the past 3 years. I'm not expecting HOFers but solid and serviceable guys. I blame Dorsey and Sutton for so many blown picks, overpaid past their prime contracts and a very vanilla defensive scheme. You are right that our players aren't that great but this isn't year one and this isn't the DV era defense were we never invested in that side of the ball. The product this year, completely his fault or not is unacceptable and should cost him his job. We are like dead last on D. Certainly valid points I just see a defense where most of our big investments either with early picks or big money are not playing or just aren’t the same player we paid then to be. We let this defense get past the tipping point of regressing age. And injuries to Berry combined with the bad attitude of Peters are made it far worse. Not sure Sutton should be saddled with that blame. But he certainly does deserve some blame and I’m like most people that think with a new surge of youth and speed on defense we also need a new attitude which probably needs to come from the DC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dksww 484 Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 It starts with coaching. The Sutton defensive scheme sucks. Since he's been here, they've been good against bad teams but struggled against good offenses. This year it completely imploded. Sutton needs to be fired so we can overhaul the entire defense. There's players to work with for next year but they for sure need another legit pass rushing DE/OLB, CB comparable to Peters and more help at S other than just Berry. Sorenson and Parker are average at best and should be depth pieces. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mloe68 1,521 Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 It starts with coaching. The Sutton defensive scheme sucks. Since he's been here, they've been good against bad teams but struggled against good offenses. This year it completely imploded. Sutton needs to be fired so we can overhaul the entire defense. There's players to work with for next year but they for sure need another legit pass rushing DE/OLB, CB comparable to Peters and more help at S other than just Berry. Sorenson and Parker are average at best and should be depth pieces. This is a coaches and QBs League first and foremost so you have a point. I do think we could also be replacing as much as 25 percent of the defense next season so why not find a coach who brings a new attitude and let Veach get him a surge of talent that fits. We also need leadership back there. Overall though we have to be careful scapegoating Sutton to much when his hands were clearly tied by some bad veteran contracts for players clearly past their prime. Plenty of blame to go around there and lots of changes needed. But at least there is talent there to build around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dksww 484 Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 This is a coaches and QBs League first and foremost so you have a point. I do think we could also be replacing as much as 25 percent of the defense next season so why not find a coach who brings a new attitude and let Veach get him a surge of talent that fits. We also need leadership back there. Overall though we have to be careful scapegoating Sutton to much when his hands were clearly tied by some bad veteran contracts for players clearly past their prime. Plenty of blame to go around there and lots of changes needed. But at least there is talent there to build around. I agree, but I've had issues with Sutton's schemes since he got here. The bend but don't break soft zone 4 man rush has been here since day 1. Hopefully Veach will have a person in mind Reid will be comfortable with and then Veach and the new DC can get to work on the talent they will want on the roster. A huge part of the defensive roster will not be here next season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAChiefsFan79 136 Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 I’m not sure what more he could do? The popular theme is to scream blitz, but our back end is so bad, what do we think is gonna happen if we start bringing extra guys for the sake of pressure? You know I’m no Sutton apologist, but you are right, the defensive personnel really hinder the options. There are too many guys on that side of the ball who have no business being on the team, and regardless of dc, it’s gonna take more than one offseason to fix the defense. This. 100% this. Can't blitz with DBs when the existing ones can't cover for 2 seconds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calichief 3,016 Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 He needs to turn what talent he has loose! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mloe68 1,521 Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 This. 100% this. Can't blitz with DBs when the existing ones can't cover for 2 seconds. You also can’t blitz players that aren’t good at it. People just assume anyone can get into the backfield and make a good open field tackle. Some of our corners in particular are horrible tacklers. There is more I believe Sutton can do to disguise coversges and stunt some pressure. There’s no doubt this is mainly a talent issue though. He’s trying to hide some glaring weaknesses which isn’t easy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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