The Alex Smith Wins Thread

[PhataLerror 370]

I'm not worried about next season. Tamba Hali said it right with this one...."I want it all." Let's take care of the Phins and play underdog Smith football which he relishes upon.

Fair enough. I won't spoil that vibe. I'd love for Tamba Hali to get his ring. I've seen two consecutive weeks of strong Chiefs football, the kind they played during the first five weeks of the season.

[KCJohnKC 33]

No interest in Brady or Smith for 2018. Regardless.

[DefensiveMan 758]

Fair enough. I won't spoil that vibe. I'd love for Tamba Hali to get his ring. I've seen two consecutive weeks of strong Chiefs football, the kind they played during the first five weeks of the season.

And I'd love to see nothing more than Smith standing on the podium on SB day in Minneapolis holding the Lombardi and MVP Trophy surrounded by Hali, DJ, Houston, and (injured) but always inspiring Eric Berry.

[Iluvhouse24 1,808]

Huh? Which NFL coach lost his job for playing Alex? And you are going to define Smith's season by his game against the Giants? Why not define Tom Brady's year by his game in Miami?

He means they've gone elsewhere looking for different qbs, not jobs. You ought to be able to piece that one together.

[PhataLerror 370]

He means they've gone elsewhere looking for different qbs, not jobs. You ought to be able to piece that one together.

OK, now I see it. It wasn't obvious to me at first. The problem there is that those coaches didn't exactly succeed in finding something better. None of them had careers that could be defined even as good.

 

I get that not everyone subscribes to the philosophy of 'a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush', but when it comes to the Chiefs, they don't have even one bird in the hand when it comes to things like the offensive line, a receiver corps with reasonably effective depth, or the defensive front seven. So if your roster is so weak at some fundamentally important position groups (so that every year for five years the Chiefs' season has turned on just a few critical injuries), doesn't it seem reasonable to want to replace someone besides the quarterback?

 

The whole 'great quarterbacks carry mediocre teams' concept is a total myth. You won't find a single example of a mediocre team carried by a high-end quarterback, at least not to the extent of winning a Super Bowl.

[Iluvhouse24 1,808]

OK, now I see it. It wasn't obvious to me at first. The problem there is that those coaches didn't exactly succeed in finding something better. None of them had careers that could be defined even as good.

 

I get that not everyone subscribes to the philosophy of 'a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush', but when it comes to the Chiefs, they don't have even one bird in the hand when it comes to things like the offensive line, a receiver corps with reasonably effective depth, or the defensive front seven. So if your roster is so weak at some fundamentally important position groups (so that every year for five years the Chiefs' season has turned on just a few critical injuries), doesn't it seem reasonable to want to replace someone besides the quarterback?

 

The whole 'great quarterbacks carry mediocre teams' concept is a total myth. You won't find a single example of a mediocre team carried by a high-end quarterback, at least not to the extent of winning a Super Bowl.

Thats because the level of play is elevated with a great QB. Demarcus Robinson and Chris Conley look like depth guys here. With a QB who hangs in the pocket and makes it all the way through a progression regularly, maybe these guys are more than that. Our offensive line is not nearly as bad as your stepdad makes them look. His complete lack of pocket presence creates sacks that dont have to be there and he leaves big plays on the field constantly.

 

I listen to Rich Gannon talk about this every time he does a game of ours or an interview on a local sports radio station. About how hard they have tried to get him to keep his eyes downfield and keep working through his reads and fight his tendency to pull it down and flee the pocket.

 

Im not going to argue that Fisher and Morse didnt regress some this year. But they aren't bad players. They are at least average players. Last year you could argue they were becoming GOOD players. And LDT and Schwartz are good players NOW.

 

Smith is who he is. He wont cost us games. But he is never going to allow ANY offense to operate at the best level it can because the guy just has an internal clock that runs too damn fast.

[PhataLerror 370]

Thats because the level of play is elevated with a great QB. Demarcus Robinson and Chris Conley look like depth guys here. With a QB who hangs in the pocket and makes it all the way through a progression regularly, maybe these guys are more than that. Our offensive line is not nearly as bad as your stepdad makes them look. His complete lack of pocket presence creates sacks that dont have to be there and he leaves big plays on the field constantly.

 

I listen to Rich Gannon talk about this every time he does a game of ours or an interview on a local sports radio station. About how hard they have tried to get him to keep his eyes downfield and keep working through his reads and fight his tendency to pull it down and flee the pocket.

 

Im not going to argue that Fisher and Morse didnt regress some this year. But they aren't bad players. They are at least average players. Last year you could argue they were becoming GOOD players. And LDT and Schwartz are good players NOW.

 

Smith is who he is. He wont cost us games. But he is never going to allow ANY offense to operate at the best level it can because the guy just has an internal clock that runs too damn fast.

I never complain about the right side of the line. Zach Fulton as a guard has been horrid, but now that Fulton is locked in at center, the drop-off from Morse to Fulton is negligible (which in itself is very disappointing). Witzmann is not good, but that's what happens when a team doesn't invest in its interior line successfully. Once Ehinger dropped off the face of this earth, any nasty or upside at left guard dropped off the earth with him.

 

To call the line average is to duck the real issue: Football Outsiders charts the Chiefs' line as giving up an adjusted sack rate almost double what Ben Roethlisberger's line has given up, and yet Le'Veon Bell gets to run behind what is also charted by Football Outsiders as the league's eighth-best run blocking line. That's a championship caliber line, not average. Average doesn't win playoffs, therefore Smith is tasked with carrying the line.

 

I liked Conley, and felt that his injury has been the season's most damaging injury to the Chiefs: It's the one that has forced Demarcus Robinson onto the field prematurely. He is not good today, and he may not make it in this league. I thought Wilson would get cut this past off-season, but the Chiefs chose to move on from Maclin, leaving Wilson a very low threshold to clear.

 

So if you're keeping count, Smith's tasked with dragging along a mediocre offensive line and a receiver corps lacking depth (take away the top two options of all teams in the league and compare what's left on the other 31 teams to what the Chiefs have, and what the Chiefs are fielding looks like a joke).

 

After all that, Smith has to hope that his defense can get off of the field and not give up scores against some of the league's most anemic offenses. Smith's had a few games this season where he's played well, but the defense choked away the game.

 

Is Brady having to drag along an inconsistent defense, a mediocre offensive line, and a weak receiver corps? No one's talking about it, but the Patriots' defense has quietly snuck into the league's top six in points allowed after a rough start to the season. Their line has blocked well even though it has gone against some of the toughest defensive fronts in the league. And wherever the receiver corps doesn't have top-tier talent, it has tenured players that know the system and get to where they're supposed to be every down.

 

When it comes to quarterbacks making a team better, I get the concept. Smith's got less to work with than Brady right now when it comes to supporting cast, and yet Smith's offense isn't terribly far behind Brady's offense in point production. You will argue that this circle runs in the other direction, and that Smith is making his players less effective. If that is so, why is it that players who play for the Patriots get to stay in New England, or get jobs elsewhere, but players who play for Kansas City and don't stay there end up out of the league?

[reesebobby 5,663]

OK, now I see it. It wasn't obvious to me at first. The problem there is that those coaches didn't exactly succeed in finding something better. None of them had careers that could be defined even as good.

 

I get that not everyone subscribes to the philosophy of 'a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush', but when it comes to the Chiefs, they don't have even one bird in the hand when it comes to things like the offensive line, a receiver corps with reasonably effective depth, or the defensive front seven. So if your roster is so weak at some fundamentally important position groups (so that every year for five years the Chiefs' season has turned on just a few critical injuries), doesn't it seem reasonable to want to replace someone besides the quarterback?

 

The whole 'great quarterbacks carry mediocre teams' concept is a total myth. You won't find a single example of a mediocre team carried by a high-end quarterback, at least not to the extent of winning a Super Bowl.

 

It's really kind of impossible to say.  Roster strength is too subjective.  But Tom Brady can't always have the best roster around him.  And he always wins. And he wins with Troy Brown, Welker, Edelman, guys that are not extremely gifted. Peyton Manning turned around the Colts and Broncos from poor to mediocre to Super Bowl champs.  Same with Big Ben.  He's always in the hunt.  

[KCJohnKC 33]

I never complain about the right side of the line. Zach Fulton as a guard has been horrid, but now that Fulton is locked in at center, the drop-off from Morse to Fulton is negligible (which in itself is very disappointing). Witzmann is not good, but that's what happens when a team doesn't invest in its interior line successfully. Once Ehinger dropped off the face of this earth, any nasty or upside at left guard dropped off the earth with him.

 

To call the line average is to duck the real issue: Football Outsiders charts the Chiefs' line as giving up an adjusted sack rate almost double what Ben Roethlisberger's line has given up, and yet Le'Veon Bell gets to run behind what is also charted by Football Outsiders as the league's eighth-best run blocking line. That's a championship caliber line, not average. Average doesn't win playoffs, therefore Smith is tasked with carrying the line.

 

I liked Conley, and felt that his injury has been the season's most damaging injury to the Chiefs: It's the one that has forced Demarcus Robinson onto the field prematurely. He is not good today, and he may not make it in this league. I thought Wilson would get cut this past off-season, but the Chiefs chose to move on from Maclin, leaving Wilson a very low threshold to clear.

 

So if you're keeping count, Smith's tasked with dragging along a mediocre offensive line and a receiver corps lacking depth (take away the top two options of all teams in the league and compare what's left on the other 31 teams to what the Chiefs have, and what the Chiefs are fielding looks like a joke).

 

After all that, Smith has to hope that his defense can get off of the field and not give up scores against some of the league's most anemic offenses. Smith's had a few games this season where he's played well, but the defense choked away the game.

 

Is Brady having to drag along an inconsistent defense, a mediocre offensive line, and a weak receiver corps? No one's talking about it, but the Patriots' defense has quietly snuck into the league's top six in points allowed after a rough start to the season. Their line has blocked well even though it has gone against some of the toughest defensive fronts in the league. And wherever the receiver corps doesn't have top-tier talent, it has tenured players that know the system and get to where they're supposed to be every down.

 

When it comes to quarterbacks making a team better, I get the concept. Smith's got less to work with than Brady right now when it comes to supporting cast, and yet Smith's offense isn't terribly far behind Brady's offense in point production. You will argue that this circle runs in the other direction, and that Smith is making his players less effective. If that is so, why is it that players who play for the Patriots get to stay in New England, or get jobs elsewhere, but players who play for Kansas City and don't stay there end up out of the league?

Fulton, terrible LG, situational C. Don't underestimate that they simplified the schemes in order to protect both Fulton and Weitzman these last few games. Morse is a decidedly better Center. If Ehinger(pre-injury)/Morse were healthy the O-line depth is very good actually and I believe you're trying to qualify backups as starters.

 

Roethlisberger is huge and notorious for avoiding sacks with very good pocket presence. He's pressured constantly. Smith is athletic and creates many of his own sacks with very limited pocket presence. I will simply refuse to believe that this fact doesn't frustrate you to no end. Giving you your Football Outsiders numbers.

 

Conley will continue to be misused and underutilized until Mahomes gets a chance to truly see what he can become. I'm afraid he'll be too much of a technician and not enough baller for Mahomes. A shame because his size/athletic combination could be phenomenal. Robinson will thrive with Mahomes. Just because Alex has no clue how to use him doesn't mean he's not talented and in fact, head to head, Robinson *should* leapfrog Conley under Mahomes because of Conleys rigid play. Wilson needs to go.

 

Up until this year, whether good or bad, this Defense has been the facet of the game we all have depended on due to Alex Smiths huge limitations. I completely concede that this year Alex has found a way to bring his eyes up much more than normal and it's paying off for him to the tune of the best season of his career. A year that he's regressed in for a number of games as well. Thankfully he's readjusting and finding a groove again.

 

Smith does not have less to work with. Kelce and Gronk are equals at worst. Hill has outperformed Cooks and is fast on his way to a top 5 AFC or better receiver. Edelman has been hurt, Hogan is a solid receiver but been hurt half the season as well. KC' so O-line has more talent and NE's O-line is better coached. Hunt is better than any back NE has, and I'm a fan of Lewis.

 

As for the narrative that Smith makes his receivers less effective, how can you deny this? It's blatant and obvious. If Alex Smith doesn't trust you, you don't get the ball, talent or no...plain and simple. Are their growing pains, missed routes and dropped passes? God yes, but we're seeing the exact same thing from the guys he trusts in Wilson and Harris.

 

Alex is having a great year and I hope he finishes it as the Super Bowl MVP. After that, thank you sir for all the success you've brought us. I wish you nothing but success from here on out.

[Mloe68 1,521]

Thats because the level of play is elevated with a great QB. Demarcus Robinson and Chris Conley look like depth guys here. With a QB who hangs in the pocket and makes it all the way through a progression regularly, maybe these guys are more than that. Our offensive line is not nearly as bad as your stepdad makes them look. His complete lack of pocket presence creates sacks that dont have to be there and he leaves big plays on the field constantly.

 

I listen to Rich Gannon talk about this every time he does a game of ours or an interview on a local sports radio station. About how hard they have tried to get him to keep his eyes downfield and keep working through his reads and fight his tendency to pull it down and flee the pocket.

 

Im not going to argue that Fisher and Morse didnt regress some this year. But they aren't bad players. They are at least average players. Last year you could argue they were becoming GOOD players. And LDT and Schwartz are good players NOW.

 

Smith is who he is. He wont cost us games. But he is never going to allow ANY offense to operate at the best level it can because the guy just has an internal clock that runs too damn fast.

What the hell does Rich Gannon know. LOL

[Iluvhouse24 1,808]

What the hell does Rich Gannon know. LOL

Guy would do anything he could to keep a play alive. The anti Smith.

[PhataLerror 370]

It's really kind of impossible to say.  Roster strength is too subjective.  But Tom Brady can't always have the best roster around him.  And he always wins. And he wins with Troy Brown, Welker, Edelman, guys that are not extremely gifted. Peyton Manning turned around the Colts and Broncos from poor to mediocre to Super Bowl champs.  Same with Big Ben.  He's always in the hunt.  

Well, Yes, Brady can. The Patriots have consistently attracted top-tier talent without paying out top-tier salary cap money. They've got a great scouting department and have drafted well. They don't give the keys to any player that doesn't earn his keep, so when free agent players like Mike Gillislee disappoint, they get to sit out lengthy portions of the season as healthy scratches.

 

Sometimes football players are better to have than physically gifted players. If fans recognized that the games are more like a well-choreographed dance than like the combine, they could understand why it was ideal for Manning and Brady to play with guys like Wes Welker. In fact, the Patriots have done what they have done by undervaluing the very players many fans valued.

[PhataLerror 370]

Smith does not have less to work with. Kelce and Gronk are equals at worst. Hill has outperformed Cooks and is fast on his way to a top 5 AFC or better receiver. Edelman has been hurt, Hogan is a solid receiver but been hurt half the season as well. KC' so O-line has more talent and NE's O-line is better coached. Hunt is better than any back NE has, and I'm a fan of Lewis.

Go back and read what I wrote:

 

Smith's tasked with dragging along a mediocre offensive line and a receiver corps lacking depth (take away the top two options of all teams in the league and compare what's left on the other 31 teams to what the Chiefs have, and what the Chiefs are fielding looks like a joke).

That means take away Kelce and Hill, as well as Gronkowski and Cooks, two pairs of counterparts that are quite similar in their skill sets. Hill is more splashy because of his top speed, but Cooks is the better receiver overall. There are subtle differences between Gronkowski and Kelce, but they're quite interchangeable. After that?

Edelman is more versatile than Conley, but Conley was coming along in his development. Now they're both gone, leaving:

 

Amendola vs. Wilson

Hogan vs. Robinson

Dorsett vs. Thomas

 

Any one of those Patriots receivers are better than any one of those Chiefs receivers, and it's really not close. Amendola has had a lengthy career in the NFL as a role player, and has more starts than those three Chiefs put together. Hogan has more starts than Wilson. The experience and ability of those Patriots receivers are superior to what Smith has at his disposal when defenses act to take away his two best targets in Kelce and Hill.

 

Pay close attention to my actual complaint: It's not the lack of high-end talent that is weighing on the Chiefs, but rather the lack of passable role players. But make no mistake: In terms of the high-end talent, the Chiefs aren't ahead of the league's best teams in that department either.

[KCJohnKC 33]

Go back and read what I wrote:

 

That means take away Kelce and Hill, as well as Gronkowski and Cooks, two pairs of counterparts that are quite similar in their skill sets. Hill is more splashy because of his top speed, but Cooks is the better receiver overall. There are subtle differences between Gronkowski and Kelce, but they're quite interchangeable. After that?

Edelman is more versatile than Conley, but Conley was coming along in his development. Now they're both gone, leaving:

 

Amendola vs. Wilson

Hogan vs. Robinson

Dorsett vs. Thomas

 

Any one of those Patriots receivers are better than any one of those Chiefs receivers, and it's really not close. Amendola has had a lengthy career in the NFL as a role player, and has more starts than those three Chiefs put together. Hogan has more starts than Wilson. The experience and ability of those Patriots receivers are superior to what Smith has at his disposal when defenses act to take away his two best targets in Kelce and Hill.

 

Pay close attention to my actual complaint: It's not the lack of high-end talent that is weighing on the Chiefs, but rather the lack of passable role players. But make no mistake: In terms of the high-end talent, the Chiefs aren't ahead of the league's best teams in that department either.

Your problem is comparing Brady to Smith directly. Brady has utilized less than what Smith has now, which isn't as God awful as you'd like to believe. Brady simply understands he has to see his receivers in order to get the ball to them. Alex is only beginning to understand this concept.

 

Smith is having a great year and deserves any accolades he gets. Had he decided to adjust his game sooner, he may have been able to take advantage of some pretty good defenses. He wasted those years and I hope he lays it all out on the table this year. Hopefully his last in KC.

[Mloe68 1,521]

Well, Yes, Brady can. The Patriots have consistently attracted top-tier talent without paying out top-tier salary cap money. They've got a great scouting department and have drafted well. They don't give the keys to any player that doesn't earn his keep, so when free agent players like Mike Gillislee disappoint, they get to sit out lengthy portions of the season as healthy scratches.

 

Sometimes football players are better to have than physically gifted players. If fans recognized that the games are more like a well-choreographed dance than like the combine, they could understand why it was ideal for Manning and Brady to play with guys like Wes Welker. In fact, the Patriots have done what they have done by undervaluing the very players many fans valued.

This is a gross misunderstanding of the reality Brady largely raises mediocre talent to another level because they play with him. 1 year rental of a QB who’s gonna throw for 4,500 yards and 30 plus TDs and just orchestrated the biggest comeback in Super Bowl history. Yes. I’d love to finally see what a high level QB could do here! And Mahomes could learn from the best ever.

[PhataLerror 370]

This is a gross misunderstanding of the reality Brady largely raises mediocre talent to another level because they play with him. 1 year rental of a QB who’s gonna throw for 4,500 yards and 30 plus TDs and just orchestrated the biggest comeback in Super Bowl history. Yes. I’d love to finally see what a high level QB could do here! And Mahomes could learn from the best ever.

Ridiculous nonsense. If the Falcons don't do their best 2013 Chiefs AFC Wild Card Playoff imitation, there would be no comeback. Dan Quinn ordered the team into a shell both offensively and defensively, and it came back to bite him. That comeback doesn't even happen if the Falcons could have, say, kicked at least a field goal on every one of their second half drives (because that's the sort of defense Chiefs fans settle for, even though it doesn't win games).

[reesebobby 5,663]

Ridiculous nonsense. If the Falcons don't do their best 2013 Chiefs AFC Wild Card Playoff imitation, there would be no comeback. Dan Quinn ordered the team into a shell both offensively and defensively, and it came back to bite him. That comeback doesn't even happen if the Falcons could have, say, kicked at least a field goal on every one of their second half drives (because that's the sort of defense Chiefs fans settle for, even though it doesn't win games).

 

Apparently you don't watch games.   That kind of makes sense.   Atlanta was up 28 to 3 mid third quarter and ran the ball three times from that moment forward.  They were up 16 when they gave up a strip sack for a fumble in their own territory with 8 minutes to go in the game.  Then, the next possession on 2nd and 11 at the NE 23 yard line, they tried to pass again and again gave up a 12 yard sack taking them out of field goal range.  A field goal would have won the game.   They didn't need a field goal on every possession, they could have taken a knee three times and punted on every possession.  They stopped the clock with incompletions and turned the ball over in the passing game when it was completely unnecessary.  Schottenheimer's second half was probably the worst coaching job in the history of the Super Bowl.   

[DefensiveMan 758]

Smith needs to beat Joe Flacco at home.

[KCSLC2008 606]

Apparently you don't watch games. That kind of makes sense. Atlanta was up 28 to 3 mid third quarter and ran the ball three times from that moment forward. They were up 16 when they gave up a strip sack for a fumble in their own territory with 8 minutes to go in the game. Then, the next possession on 2nd and 11 at the NE 23 yard line, they tried to pass again and again gave up a 12 yard sack taking them out of field goal range. A field goal would have won the game. They didn't need a field goal on every possession, they could have taken a knee three times and punted on every possession. They stopped the clock with incompletions and turned the ball over in the passing game when it was completely unnecessary. Schottenheimer's second half was probably the worst coaching job in the history of the Super Bowl.

When we lost our lead to the Colts, we didn't have very many incompletions to stop the clock but I do think we ran out of bounds too many times? Punted too many times for sure. People said we should've run the ball more, but a lot of the passes were caught and tackled inbounds. Some for first downs where a run would likely not. I did a break down back then but I've been trying to erase that game from my memory.

[Calichief 3,016]

When we lost our lead to the Colts, we didn't have very many incompletions to stop the clock but I do think we ran out of bounds too many times? Punted too many times for sure. People said we should've run the ball more, but a lot of the passes were caught and tackled inbounds. Some for first downs where a run would likely not. I did a break down back then but I've been trying to erase that game from my memory.

Worst game of my life.

[Palangi 788]

Hopefully Alex has a good playoff run. With the way he has played and a good playoff run we might get good compensation back in a trade

[Chiefmanzada 466]

There’s still the decision to keep him to be made

[Palangi 788]

It's there. And just the thought of that might drive his price up even more

[PhataLerror 370]

There’s still the decision to keep him to be made

If Smith is still on the Chiefs' roster on March 16 when his $2 million roster bonus kicks in, there are people here that will instantly collapse to the ground in the fetal position, rocking back and forth, sucking their thumbs while moaning incoherently.

 

It's not a done deal that Smith gets traded, and not necessarily in the Chiefs' best interests for a variety of reasons. The week 17 game is going to have an impact on the decision to be made.

[DefensiveMan 758]

If Smith is still on the Chiefs' roster on March 16 when his $2 million roster bonus kicks in, there are people here that will instantly collapse to the ground in the fetal position, rocking back and forth, sucking their thumbs while moaning incoherently.

 

It's not a done deal that Smith gets traded, and not necessarily in the Chiefs' best interests for a variety of reasons. The week 17 game is going to have an impact on the decision to be made.

So you're saying week 17 will provide the Chiefs staff ample time to monitor and critique Mr. Pat Mahummus' play? Is he ready to be the guy in essence? I think you're right.