Tyreek Hill, now one of the best WR's in the game?

[Mloe68 1,521]

We've been over this in these forums. Smith publicly said he wasn't in the progression, and no one from the team ever disputed that. That's on the offensive coordinator 100% of the time.

On this play, Smith has an intact pocket, and Hill has a clean release downfield. Still, with a Steelers defender lumbering up the middle, Smith scrambles.

https://cdn-vox--cdn-com.cdn.ampproject.org/i/s/cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/9nkQZkEgPs2pkz9Y-hBnXRYHKZc=/1400x0/filters:no_upscale()/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/7819569/reekopen.0.gif

 

Hill is just absolutely gone. Considering his speed and the fact that there’s no Pittsburgh defender within several yards of him, if Smith stays with the play for just long enough to air it out to Hill, that’s seven more points on the board for Kansas City.

 

Smith had another opportunity to hit Hill for a touchdown, and it went about as well as the first.

 

https://cdn-vox--cdn-com.cdn.ampproject.org/i/s/cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/K2sy-Bv75tJ-qUWGuiLbW9Hp1Pc=/1400x0/filters:no_upscale()/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/7819587/reek23.0.gif

 

This time, there are at least defenders trying to cover Hill, but thanks to his speed, he has them beat. Smith’s pocket is pretty clean again, although he’s reacting like it isn’t. The offensive line can only hold off the Steelers for so long, and Smith holds on to this ball far too long considering that Hill is, for much of this time, definitely open.

[kkuenn 3,603]

We've been over this in these forums. Smith publicly said he wasn't in the progression, and no one from the team ever disputed that. That's on the offensive coordinator 100% of the time.

No one is going to knock the starting qb publicly either.

[Mloe68 1,521]

No one is going to knock the starting an publicly either.

Film doesn’t lie. Alex lack of pocket presence caused him to abandon a clean pocket twice and miss wide open Tyreek both times for what would have been huge gains. In a game where your defense holds an elite offense to 18 points the QB absolutely has to make at least one of these two plays. It’s the plays Alex leaves on the table that hold this team back at critical times. I hope he goes for broke and plays aggressively in two weeks.

[PhataLerror 370]

Film doesn’t lie. Alex lack of pocket presence caused him to abandon a clean pocket twice and miss wide open Tyreek both times for what would have been huge gains. In a game where your defense holds an elite offense to 18 points the QB absolutely has to make at least one of these two plays. It’s the plays Alex leaves on the table that hold this team back at critical times. I hope he goes for broke and plays aggressively in two weeks.

What do you want me to do about it? What did you want Smith to do? Why are you holding him accountable for his coordinator's oversight? Ever play quarterback? You don't have time to look for players that aren't in your progression. This isn't complicated.

[KCJohnKC 33]

What do you want me to do about it? What did you want Smith to do? Why are you holding him accountable for his coordinator's oversight? Ever play quarterback? You don't have time to look for players that aren't in your progression. This isn't complicated.

Wait until you see Mahomes play. You'll see a QB that uses his feet to avoid pressure while keeping his eyes downfield reading his progressions multiple times over. It's what good QB'S do, they make plays.

 

I'm not sure why you make so many excuses for Alex.

[Mloe68 1,521]

What do you want me to do about it? What did you want Smith to do? Why are you holding him accountable for his coordinator's oversight? Ever play quarterback? You don't have time to look for players that aren't in your progression. This isn't complicated.

Two plays, two times your top WR is wide open, two times Alex Smith bails from a clean pocket and hence can’t find wide open WR. You are correct it’s not difficult, those panic moments from Smith are what differinciate him from the top tier of QBs and a reason why he’s got only 2 playoff wins in 13 seasons. No more needs to be said at this point.

Let’s see if Mahomes II on his tail will promote a more aggressive and poised effort that results in an actual playoff run. That’s all I care about right now.

[sith13 1,746]

Conley is only 6'3, I'm talking about a 6'4 6'5 type of WR who Pat could target against smaller CB's to move the chains and also when we're in the redzone for TD's. 

 

Conley has a freakish athletic ability and actually has better upwards range than most 6'4", 6'5" guys. He's tied for the all time 3rd in vertical jump and Cameron Wake is the only player in the NFL that recorded anything higher by half an inch. Another one in the mix would be sick but Conley will be able to fit that role as well. Two towering receivers and a speedy Hill is almost impossible to cover with conventional methods.

[KCSLC2008 606]

Let’s see if Mahomes II on his tail will promote a more aggressive and poised effort that results in an actual playoff run. That’s all I care about right now.

Man, stop fucking giving Mahomes credit for everything Smith does this year. Smith is on a contract year and that in itself is the motivation. He knows he's not gonna play here next year. I think it contributed to the 5-0 start, but shit, if he makes a playoff run, I'm giving Smith credit. If he doesn't, I'm giving Smith the blame.

 

I already know that if we do somehow win the Super Bowl, everyone else getting credit. Retroactively, we can ignore those players or lack thereof in previous runs. Because Smith. The truth it's a team game and parts can be made up by other parts here in there but ultimately it's a team game. No one said Snith is a HOF QB.

 

I mean, people are already giving Mahomes credit for what he hasn't done yet. I believe he can, believe he will, and I would not be surprised if he does, but I'm not giving credit to him until he does it. Not his fault. Whatever Smith doesn't do is not a credit to what Mahomes has done, that will come in time and anticipation does not equal a bird or two in the hand.

[Mloe68 1,521]

Man, stop fucking giving Mahomes credit for everything Smith does this year. Smith is on a contract year and that in itself is the motivation. He knows he's not gonna play here next year. I think it contributed to the 5-0 start, but shit, if he makes a playoff run, I'm giving Smith credit. If he doesn't, I'm giving Smith the blame.

 

I already know that if we do somehow win the Super Bowl, everyone else getting credit. Retroactively, we can ignore those players or lack thereof in previous runs. Because Smith. The truth it's a team game and parts can be made up by other parts here in there but ultimately it's a team game. No one said Snith is a HOF QB.

 

I mean, people are already giving Mahomes credit for what he hasn't done yet. I believe he can, believe he will, and I would not be surprised if he does, but I'm not giving credit to him until he does it. Not his fault. Whatever Smith doesn't do is not a credit to what Mahomes has done, that will come in time and anticipation does not equal a bird or two in the hand.

First off Alex is not in a contract year. Secondly drafting Mahomes and seeing his talent every day in practice and how he makes downfield plays with regularity has absolutely made Alex a more aggressive passer and in general raised the level of play. This is what legit competition does. Something this organization has shied away from for decades. And another great biproduct of drafting Mahomes. Just being in the building Mahomes has indeed made Alex better. You can find quote after quote from Alex or Andy that acknowledge this.

 

"I- Pat's a hell of a player, but I hope to make him sit for a while."you don't go out there and play winning football, they're going to replace you with somebody who they think can.”

 

“When you’re drafting a guy that early, you’re hoping he’s bringing that quality. That is an unwritten and unsaid and untalked-about deal,” Smith said. “When the quarterback is really good, then it’s really competitive and we do compete in everything. We do all the time. We keep score in everything. The better everyone is then I think that’s going to make everyone better, myself included.”

 

Peter King said Andy Reid told him it was obvious how ultra motivated Alex Smith was all offseason especially working on deep passing.

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-network-total-access/0ap3000000841180/Andy-Reid-to-Peter-King-Alex-Smith-was-so-motivated-this-off-season

[PhataLerror 370]

Drafting Mahomes and seeing his talent every day in practice and how he makes downfield plays with regularity has absolutely made Alex a more aggressive passer and in general raised the level of play. This is what legit competition does.

Competition so "legit" that Brett Veach made a point of saying that Smith is "so far ahead of what Pat [Mahomes] is".

 

The idea of Mahomes pushing Smith is baseless.

[MisChief-Maker 135]

Hey guys, just read a great article HERE by Seth Keysor about the rapid rise of Hill, and how he's now in the elite class of wide receivers in the country. It's a great read and tbh it just wets the appetite because it's truly scary to think about what Hill will be doing in a year or two if his development continues in this fashion. 

[KCSLC2008 606]

First off Alex is not in a contract year. Secondly drafting Mahomes and seeing his talent every day in practice and how he makes downfield plays with regularity has absolutely made Alex a more aggressive passer and in general raised the level of play. This is what legit competition does. Something this organization has shied away from for decades. And another great biproduct of drafting Mahomes. Just being in the building Mahomes has indeed made Alex better. You can find quote after quote from Alex or Andy that acknowledge this.

 

"I- Pat's a hell of a player, but I hope to make him sit for a while."you don't go out there and play winning football, they're going to replace you with somebody who they think can.”

 

“When you’re drafting a guy that early, you’re hoping he’s bringing that quality. That is an unwritten and unsaid and untalked-about deal,” Smith said. “When the quarterback is really good, then it’s really competitive and we do compete in everything. We do all the time. We keep score in everything. The better everyone is then I think that’s going to make everyone better, myself included.”

 

Peter King said Andy Reid told him it was obvious how ultra motivated Alex Smith was all offseason especially working on deep passing.

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-network-total-access/0ap3000000841180/Andy-Reid-to-Peter-King-Alex-Smith-was-so-motivated-this-off-season

You know what I meant when I said contract year.

 

I do believe competition, especially legit, brings out the best and I believe that he is competitive. I'm just not gonna give Mahomes credit for that.

 

Smith is more aggressive, but he also has better weapons to last year. A second year Hill is better than the first year Hill. So maybe Dorsey/Reid/Veach prompted the attempts, but Smith gets credit for the completions. And in the playoffs if he folders, he gets the blame.

 

I take fault and the way I responded to you. You were talking about aggressiveness and obviously having a legitimate QB behind you who passes the ball deep often has an effect. I just don't like the credit being given all the time to him. Smith has to make those passes and not many are going to give anyone else the blame when he doesn't.

[Mloe68 1,521]

Competition so "legit" that Brett Veach made a point of saying that Smith is "so far ahead of what Pat [Mahomes] is".

 

The idea of Mahomes pushing Smith is baseless.

Only if you have reading comprehension problems. If you don’t understand about how competition fuels improved play there’s not much more I can say. Alex Smith said it, Andy Reid said it, but somehow it’s baseless to you. You can argue with them about it.

[Mloe68 1,521]

You know what I meant when I said contract year.

 

I do believe competition, especially legit, brings out the best and I believe that he is competitive. I'm just not gonna give Mahomes credit for that.

 

Smith is more aggressive, but he also has better weapons to last year. A second year Hill is better than the first year Hill. So maybe Dorsey/Reid/Veach prompted the attempts, but Smith gets credit for the completions. And in the playoffs if he folders, he gets the blame.

 

I take fault and the way I responded to you. You were talking about aggressiveness and obviously having a legitimate QB behind you who passes the ball deep often has an effect. I just don't like the credit being given all the time to him. Smith has to make those passes and not many are going to give anyone else the blame when he doesn't.

Certainlg part of the reason we drafted Mahomes is Andy wants more of a big play threat at QB than Alex had delivered. It was a clear part of Alex’s game that was lacking if nothing else the idea of recognizing beatable one on one coverages and taking good risks to get the ball out there. It’s a mindset and clearly Alex took note. This is a win win for this team because it also works the other way.

Pat Mahomes is also being highly impacted by what Alex Smith brings to the table and we can reap those rewards for years to come.

Point here is that organization has spent most of three decades coddling starting QBs by putting substandard or pure backup types behind the starter. Not only were we not developing a pipeline for the future but we weren’t putting any fear or edge into our starters. We’ve legitmately got that now.

[KCSLC2008 606]

Alex Smith is a self-motivated player. Mentally tough who has adjusted his game in the past with just his future on the line (but no one behind him).

 

But what the Chiefs wanted, what is effective in the playoffs, what could keep his job this year, what could earn him a contract in the future, the talent we had on offense, the time in the system, the fans' response, whatever Mahomes could teach Smith, Nagy calling the plays, all contribute to HOW he plays. It's ALL going in the same direction, as Smith is still careful with the ball. There are no negatives to him being aggressive, in my opinion, and I did think HE learned something from that damn Steelers loss (not just Dorsey and Reid). I truly think he believed in protecting the ball, keeping the game manageable, not letting things get out of hand and he had succeeded in that, but to get over the hump, not only making those plays (he knew that, obviously) but putting emphasis on that is what is needed.

 

His history with bad coaches and bad teams had forced him to push and that lead to bad things. I'm not trying to make it psychological or suggest he didn't academically know all this already - he did - but I think all of the above pushed him.

 

The stupid midseason slump, I believe was Reid going back to passive mode and Smith failing to stick to it. I mean, Smith did miss plays in that stretch that Reid did call, but Reid did start getting too predictable and then too creative. There wasn't consistency in the offensive playcalling. Yes, you can be consistent without being predictable.

[PAChiefsFan79 136]

Back to Tyreek Hill...

 

https://www.arrowheadpride.com/2017/12/27/16820268/tyreek-hill-is-an-elite-wr-and-ill-prove-it

 

 

good article by Seth. Elite!

[Mloe68 1,521]

Back to Tyreek Hill...

 

https://www.arrowheadpride.com/2017/12/27/16820268/tyreek-hill-is-an-elite-wr-and-ill-prove-it

 

 

good article by Seth. Elite!

25th in targets (which is ridiculous), 6th in yardage (which shows how elite he is already)

[KCSLC2008 606]

25th in targets (which is ridiculous), 6th in yardage (which shows how elite he is already)

Normally, I would say that if he were targeted more, teams would stop him more but his speed is just so quick that it's not like a normal receiver who has his numbers trend down the more attention he gets.

 

With Smith at quarterback and running the West Coast offense, which would surprise you less, the current situation or a WR being 6th in targets but 25th in yards?

[Mloe68 1,521]

Normally, I would say that if he were targeted more, teams would stop him more but his speed is just so quick that it's not like a normal receiver who has his numbers trend down the more attention he gets.

 

With Smith at quarterback and running the West Coast offense, which would surprise you less, the current situation or a WR being 6th in targets but 25th in yards?

In an Andy Reid offense in general it would be more surprising to see a WR in the top twenty in targets period. But you can’t have an elite WR like this with SO many fewer looks than other top guys. He’s got to get the ball more.