PhataLerror 370 Posted December 22, 2017 Share Posted December 22, 2017 altho we may not want to bare his children like some on here Sometimes homophones are just outright disturbing. I'm certain no one here wants to do this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhataLerror 370 Posted December 22, 2017 Share Posted December 22, 2017 Do you think there is a higher chance on us drafting an elite QB or just getting a 'veteran' who's never been elite and making him an elite QB? The idea that a player's manner of acquisition has any bearing on his play is irrational. This is not subject to argument. There's no such thing as drafting an "elite" quarterback. Even the best ones ever to play developed over time. Teams should continually invest in the quarterback position, but a disproportionately high investment in the quarterback position, either in draft capital in monetarily, leads to a tendency to lack quality in the supporting cast. By investing tremendous draft capital in Patrick Mahomes, the Chiefs had to pass on talent that could have been helpful at numerous positions. When the Chiefs could have committed to strengthening their roster for a 2017 Super Bowl run (like the Patriots did), they opted to set their eyes on 2020. (Not, "20/20". Clearly their vision is not that clear.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biggjliv4 1,292 Posted December 22, 2017 Share Posted December 22, 2017 Trent would have won the super bowl here with a defense. Couldn't agree more Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sith13 1,746 Posted December 22, 2017 Share Posted December 22, 2017 Trent would have won the super bowl here with a defense. Definitely. Personally I like Smith and think he's a decent QB but just not good enough to warrant his salary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KCSLC2008 606 Posted December 22, 2017 Share Posted December 22, 2017 Definitely. Personally I like Smith and think he's a decent QB but just not good enough to warrant his salary. Next year, the salary would increase, but on average, his contract was 18th according to overthecap.com. If one were to include just the average of this year and prior (not including the lower SF contract), it would obviously be lower than 18th. 20th? Add in the 8M he made the first year here? Even lower on average. Next year, it would jump to a higher one-year "average" (of one year). https://overthecap.com/position/quarterback/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sith13 1,746 Posted December 22, 2017 Share Posted December 22, 2017 Next year, the salary would increase, but on average, his contract was 18th according to overthecap.com. If one were to include just the average of this year and prior (not including the lower SF contract), it would obviously be lower than 18th. 20th? Add in the 8M he made the first year here? Even lower on average. Next year, it would jump to a higher one-year "average" (of one year). https://overthecap.com/position/quarterback/ It's not really a matter of averages as he has never been paid as a top guy but most QBs don't justify their contracts and Smith is one of those names. He's taking up over 10% of the salary cap and if a guy is getting paid as much he should make at least a couple lame guys perform at a decent level. If he cannot we simply end up being yet another average NFL team that's dealing with limited cap and always having holes to fill on offense. Salary cap went up by about 15% but teams went out giving QBs up to 100% increase and ruined a lot of franchises. Cutler and Romo deals were simply the ignition. In reality Smith should have gotten something like 12 million / year which would have been a huge increase on its own and would allow the Chiefs to keep at least one of our productive linemen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer 8,687 Posted December 22, 2017 Share Posted December 22, 2017 West and oldtimer, if we somehow win the Super Bowl this year with Smith, would he jump Montana? While obviously Montana is the better quarterback, Smith would have won it here. I think that at the very least he would jump Green. He would most certainly jump Green altho I do agree if Green had a Defense there was a great chance we could of won at least 1 and appeared in 2 SB's I do agree with Moons. Trent would throw a block and seemed to put his body on the line more than Smith but Smith surely is a warrior in his own right. oh and Phatal...shut the fuck up and get back in the downward dog where you belong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spfdchiefsfan 621 Posted December 22, 2017 Share Posted December 22, 2017 I'd take Green over Smith but it'd be Trent 3A Smith 3B I'd take Alex over Trent. Don't get me wrong, i love trent, i just think he was a product of that OLine. Could you imagine what Alex could do if he had the time Trent did just to sit back there and wait for someone to get open??? But my list would be Dawson Montana Smith 3A Green 3B. TomAto Tomahto Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhataLerror 370 Posted December 22, 2017 Share Posted December 22, 2017 oh and Phatal... Whoa, what'd I do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mloe68 1,521 Posted December 22, 2017 Share Posted December 22, 2017 The idea that a player's manner of acquisition has any bearing on his play is irrational. This is not subject to argument. There's no such thing as drafting an "elite" quarterback. Even the best ones ever to play developed over time. Teams should continually invest in the quarterback position, but a disproportionately high investment in the quarterback position, either in draft capital in monetarily, leads to a tendency to lack quality in the supporting cast. By investing tremendous draft capital in Patrick Mahomes, the Chiefs had to pass on talent that could have been helpful at numerous positions. When the Chiefs could have committed to strengthening their roster for a 2017 Super Bowl run (like the Patriots did), they opted to set their eyes on 2020. (Not, "20/20". Clearly their vision is not that clear.) And paying Mahomes 3 million in 2018-2020, rather than 20 million for Alex plus potentially also getting a day two pick? Now your starting to get it. Question for you. Would you rather have Tom Brady or Alex Smith. LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
West 6,714 Posted December 22, 2017 Share Posted December 22, 2017 Smith won a playoff game...Trent did not....so I would go 3A and 3B, but change the names. Gannon was a Raider, another horrible management call, so he did not make my list. If Smith wins the AFC Championship game this year, he goes ahead of Joe M. w Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mloe68 1,521 Posted December 22, 2017 Share Posted December 22, 2017 I'd take Alex over Trent. Don't get me wrong, i love trent, i just think he was a product of that OLine. Could you imagine what Alex could do if he had the time Trent did just to sit back there and wait for someone to get open??? But my list would be Dawson Montana Smith 3A Green 3B. TomAto Tomahto In my opinion there’s no way Alex would have been as good as Trent with that team. And no way would Trent been as good as Alex with this team. If that makes sense. They are of the same ilk though with different strengths and weaknesses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mloe68 1,521 Posted December 22, 2017 Share Posted December 22, 2017 Smith won a playoff game...Trent did not....so I would go 3A and 3B, but change the names. Gannon was a Raider, another horrible management call, so he did not make my list. If Smith wins the AFC Championship game this year, he goes ahead of Joe M. w Joe is a very tough call for me because he was so beaten up by the time he got here, he had trouble making it through games at times. He had to be pinch hit for in that epic Pitt win but then returned with an “it” factor win that we haven’t had a QB since deliver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
West 6,714 Posted December 22, 2017 Share Posted December 22, 2017 Montana was amazing...The Denver Monday Night game was vintage... He may have pulled out the Buffalo game but he was hurt very badly.... Love the guy.... w Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieHard 2,061 Posted December 22, 2017 Share Posted December 22, 2017 Smith won a playoff game...Trent did not....so I would go 3A and 3B, but change the names. Gannon was a Raider, another horrible management call, so he did not make my list. If Smith wins the AFC Championship game this year, he goes ahead of Joe M. w That’s fair. Trent did not have a D at all, but Alex hung 44 points on a team in the playoffs and lost the game. I would be curious it that is a scoring record for the Chiefs in a playoff game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhataLerror 370 Posted December 23, 2017 Share Posted December 23, 2017 That’s fair. Trent did not have a D at all, but Alex hung 44 points on a team in the playoffs and lost the game. I would be curious it that is a scoring record for the Chiefs in a playoff game. It was a Chiefs record. The Chiefs' best post-season score previous to 2013 was set in 1966 when the Chiefs defeated the Bills 31-7, and then tied in 2003, when the Chiefs lost 31-38 against the Colts. In fact, Alex Smith's 2013 Chiefs hold the record for the second-highest losing score in NFL post-season history. "But, but, but... if the Chiefs only had a quarterback." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moons314 2,463 Posted December 23, 2017 Share Posted December 23, 2017 It was a Chiefs record. The Chiefs' best post-season score previous to 2013 was set in 1966 when the Chiefs defeated the Bills 31-7, and then tied in 2003, when the Chiefs lost 31-38 against the Colts. In fact, Alex Smith's 2013 Chiefs hold the record for the second-highest losing score in NFL post-season history. "But, but, but... if the Chiefs only had a quarterback." You’re seriously beating a dead horse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhataLerror 370 Posted December 23, 2017 Share Posted December 23, 2017 You’re seriously beating a dead horse. I was answering a question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moons314 2,463 Posted December 23, 2017 Share Posted December 23, 2017 I was answering a question. I was talking about the last line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mloe68 1,521 Posted December 23, 2017 Share Posted December 23, 2017 That’s fair. Trent did not have a D at all, but Alex hung 44 points on a team in the playoffs and lost the game. I would be curious it that is a scoring record for the Chiefs in a playoff game. And in fairness to Alex. He outplayed Trent in their playoff games vs Indy. Too bad we’ve never seen that Alex again in January. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mloe68 1,521 Posted December 23, 2017 Share Posted December 23, 2017 It was a Chiefs record. The Chiefs' best post-season score previous to 2013 was set in 1966 when the Chiefs defeated the Bills 31-7, and then tied in 2003, when the Chiefs lost 31-38 against the Colts. In fact, Alex Smith's 2013 Chiefs hold the record for the second-highest losing score in NFL post-season history. "But, but, but... if the Chiefs only had a quarterback." Yep. And he also has the honor of being one of a handful of teams in NFL history to have a defense give up 0 TDs at home and still manage to lose. The Alex we saw in that 2014 playoff game has unfortunately never appeared again. And that’s why Andy knew he had to try and get better at that position rather than paying a non elite QB he can’t count on in January 20 million per season. Football 101. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
West 6,714 Posted December 23, 2017 Share Posted December 23, 2017 Smith was the best available option for the Chiefs. I give Reid mucho credit that he went out and got Mahomes.... Of course, Mahomes has not proven anything yet at the NFL Level but he makes many folks very hopeful. He even makes a few, confident. w Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KCSLC2008 606 Posted December 23, 2017 Share Posted December 23, 2017 Yep. And he also has the honor of being one of a handful of teams in NFL history to have a defense give up 0 TDs at home and still manage to lose. The Alex we saw in that 2014 playoff game has unfortunately never appeared again. And that’s why Andy knew he had to try and get better at that position rather than paying a non elite QB he can’t count on in January 20 million per season. Football 101. I blame him and the offense for not being able to score 20 points. I don't give a shit that the defense did not allow a touchdown. They allowed 18 points and the offense is supposed to score at least 20. So many damn people keep bringing up the touchdown thing and it's overstated. I blame the offense for losing the game, not the defense. But 18 points is 18. I don't care how it comes. The offense scored touchdowns, doesn't make them any better. They only scored 16. They get the blame. Not allowing a TD is a talking point, not a substantive thing. Not scoring 20 points is substantive. I don't give the defense credit for letting the Steelers get in field-goal range six times*. I give the defense credit for holding them to 18. Basically the same thing, but all this zero touchdowns crap acts like they allowed zero points. Just like no touchdown to a receiver acted like we had zero touchdowns on the year. Number of touchdowns he had was an issue and while I believe in diversity of scoring, including the receiver, including the whole field of play, the number of touchdowns was enough to criticize the offense by itself. Because if a receiver caught a two yard pass and ran it for 70 yards doesn't make Smith a better quarterback, but it would get rid of that stat. I think zero is as relevant as say, four, The overall touched him stay the same. The quality of quarterback play stays the same (good or bad). Scoring 18 touchdowns instead of 25 is the problem. Not scoring 20 points in a playoff game is enough for sufficient blame. Because if the defense had allowed two touchdowns and we had two safeties, it wouldn't change a damn thing about the offense not scoring 20 points. In fact, maybe that would have meant that the offense had the ball more and the defense didn't chew up the clock? (*I admit I don't recall offhand how many of the six field goals the Steeler started In field goal range.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhataLerror 370 Posted December 24, 2017 Share Posted December 24, 2017 I blame him and the offense for not being able to score 20 points. I don't give a shit that the defense did not allow a touchdown. They allowed 18 points and the offense is supposed to score at least 20. So many damn people keep bringing up the touchdown thing and it's overstated. I blame the offense for losing the game, not the defense. But 18 points is 18. I don't care how it comes. The offense scored touchdowns, doesn't make them any better. They only scored 16. They get the blame. Not allowing a TD is a talking point, not a substantive thing. Not scoring 20 points is substantive. I don't give the defense credit for letting the Steelers get in field-goal range six times*. I give the defense credit for holding them to 18. Basically the same thing, but all this zero touchdowns crap acts like they allowed zero points. Just like no touchdown to a receiver acted like we had zero touchdowns on the year. Number of touchdowns he had was an issue and while I believe in diversity of scoring, including the receiver, including the whole field of play, the number of touchdowns was enough to criticize the offense by itself. Because if a receiver caught a two yard pass and ran it for 70 yards doesn't make Smith a better quarterback, but it would get rid of that stat. I think zero is as relevant as say, four, The overall touched him stay the same. The quality of quarterback play stays the same (good or bad). Scoring 18 touchdowns instead of 25 is the problem. Not scoring 20 points in a playoff game is enough for sufficient blame. Because if the defense had allowed two touchdowns and we had two safeties, it wouldn't change a damn thing about the offense not scoring 20 points. In fact, maybe that would have meant that the offense had the ball more and the defense didn't chew up the clock? (*I admit I don't recall offhand how many of the six field goals the Steeler started In field goal range.) The Steelers had a huge time of possession in that game (over 34 minutes) in a game where the Steelers had only nine meaningful offensive possessions. Smith was not responsible for either of the Chiefs' turnovers, the hack-pick and the West fumble. Smith was not responsible for the game-tying two-point conversion being called back on a holding penalty (but holding was about the only way the offensive line got anything done that game). Everyone wants to boil it down to Smith, but an all-around poor effort by the entire team was to blame for that loss. Championship teams don't allow 2 points per drive and fail to produce meaningful pressure on the opposing quarterback. The 'didn't allow a touchdown' gripe exaggerates the actual contributions of the Chiefs' defense that game. That defense allowed an average of well over 40 yards per drive, and while the defense wasn't to blame for both Chiefs turnovers allowing the Steelers to start a pair of drives in Chiefs' territory, just one more clutch stop by that defense turns that game into a 17-15 contest in which the Chiefs could have won on the strength of its defense, which is what guys like Roethlisberger have been doing for their entire post-season career. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonder 47 Posted December 24, 2017 Share Posted December 24, 2017 Alex is an average to slightly above average QB who has helped us get back to mediocrity. One playoff win over Brian Hoyer doesn’t mean we should crown his ass Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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