PhataLerror 370 Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 We were near the bottom of the league in red zone efficiency coming in , so Mahomes is actually ahead of the curve compared to our current state. Well, yes, with a small sample size, one can generally find ways to justify unjustifiable comparisons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adamixoye 604 Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 Well, yes, with a small sample size, one can generally find ways to justify unjustifiable comparisons. You literally brought up the red zone, so... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adamixoye 604 Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 I was very impressed on his recovery of Devey's terrible snap, and I also liked his checkdown to Sherman on the play about halfway through the third quarter. Those are the plays I want to see Mahomes make, because those are the plays that win football games against playoff teams. I am still pretty new to this board, this can't be serious can it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhataLerror 370 Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 I am still pretty new to this board, this can't be serious can it? Yes, it's serious. Against good teams, you need a quarterback that manages the game. You can't consistently win if your quarterback is making poor decisions or is unable to salvage less-than-optimal circumstances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adamixoye 604 Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 Yes, it's serious. Against good teams, you need a quarterback that manages the game. You can't consistently win if your quarterback is making poor decisions or is unable to salvage less-than-optimal circumstances. But that's exactly what he did in those "sandlot" plays that you dismissed already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhataLerror 370 Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 But that's exactly what he did in those "sandlot" plays that you dismissed already. I'm more concerned about having a quarterback that can execute the assigned scheme. When you throw to your outlet and gain a few yards even though something goes wrong, you're doing a job you can do again and again. When you sandlot, who knows what you'll get? You like sandlotting? You think it's better than managing a game? Why is Tyrod Taylor just getting the first post-season of his career? Why is Russell Wilson sitting this post-season? Where are Colin Kaepernick and Robert Griffin? You've got to be able to execute the scheme. Anything else is the highlight fodder sandwiched between season-killing losing streaks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KCJohnKC 33 Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 I'm more concerned about having a quarterback that can execute the assigned scheme. When you throw to your outlet and gain a few yards even though something goes wrong, you're doing a job you can do again and again. When you sandlot, who knows what you'll get? You like sandlotting? You think it's better than managing a game? Why is Tyrod Taylor just getting the first post-season of his career? Why is Russell Wilson sitting this post-season? Where are Colin Kaepernick and Robert Griffin? You've got to be able to execute the scheme. Anything else is the highlight fodder sandwiched between season-killing losing streaks. Phatal, we would have lost this game with Alex Smith playing. Plain and simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhataLerror 370 Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 Phatal, we would have lost this game with Alex Smith playing. Plain and simple. Ah. Well, it's amazing what is known in the absence of actual history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adamixoye 604 Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 I'm more concerned about having a quarterback that can execute the assigned scheme. When you throw to your outlet and gain a few yards even though something goes wrong, you're doing a job you can do again and again. When you sandlot, who knows what you'll get? You like sandlotting? You think it's better than managing a game? Why is Tyrod Taylor just getting the first post-season of his career? Why is Russell Wilson sitting this post-season? Where are Colin Kaepernick and Robert Griffin? You've got to be able to execute the scheme. Anything else is the highlight fodder sandwiched between season-killing losing streaks. First off, Mahomes DID the things you're talking about. He had a lot of good checkdowns. He covered the fumble that wasn't his fault. Etc. Second, what do Taylor, Wilson, Kaepernick, and Griffin have in common? I think you've outed yourself on what your real issue with Mahomes is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KCJohnKC 33 Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 Ah. Well, it's amazing what is known in the absence of actual history. I'm not sure how you can't see it. Good for you for sticking to your guns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhataLerror 370 Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 First off, Mahomes DID the things you're talking about. He had a lot of good checkdowns. He covered the fumble that wasn't his fault. Etc. Second, what do Taylor, Wilson, Kaepernick, and Griffin have in common? I think you've outed yourself on what your real issue with Mahomes is. That he runs around in circles without consistently making quality throws from the pocket? It's the product of not making quality reads and executing quickly. The league's great quarterbacks aren't playing like that. Don't you wonder why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adamixoye 604 Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 That he runs around in circles without consistently making quality throws from the pocket? It's the product of not making quality reads and executing quickly. The league's great quarterbacks aren't playing like that. Don't you wonder why? Nope! Not warm yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhataLerror 370 Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 Nope! Not warm yet. I literally just discovered that Mahomes is bi-racial. If that's where you were going, you've already lost a discussion that was center on actual quarterbacking abilities. I could care less what race he was. Play from the pocket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iluvhouse24 1,808 Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 I literally just discovered that Mahomes is bi-racial. If that's where you were going, you've already lost a discussion that was center on actual quarterbacking abilities. I could care less what race he was. Play from the pocket. That he runs around in circles without consistently making quality throws from the pocket? It's the product of not making quality reads and executing quickly. The league's great quarterbacks aren't playing like that. Don't you wonder why? Runs around in circles? What the hell are you talking about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhataLerror 370 Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 Runs around in circles? What the hell are you talking about? The sandlotting. I've mentioned it multiple times now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adamixoye 604 Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 I literally just discovered that Mahomes is bi-racial. If that's where you were going, you've already lost a discussion that was center on actual quarterbacking abilities. I could care less what race he was. Play from the pocket. First of all, "play from the pocket," when you mention the QBs that you did, is a pretty loaded phrase. Second, it's been discredited that it's necessary to play a certain way. Third, Mahomes keeps a better pocket than Smith, who would have crumpled on at least three of the passes that Pat completed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhataLerror 370 Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 First of all, "play from the pocket," when you mention the QBs that you did, is a pretty loaded phrase. Second, it's been discredited that it's necessary to play a certain way. Third, Mahomes keeps a better pocket than Smith, who would have crumpled on at least three of the passes that Pat completed. Well, no, it hasn't been discredited. The teams that win the big games have a quarterback that can manage the pocket, even poor pockets. And you can go on about what Smith wouldn't have done on some of Mahomes' plays, but film review will show that Mahomes will have missed plays Smith makes. So what's really going on here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adamixoye 604 Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 Well, no, it hasn't been discredited. The teams that win the big games have a quarterback that can manage the pocket, even poor pockets. And you can go on about what Smith wouldn't have done on some of Mahomes' plays, but film review will show that Mahomes will have missed plays Smith makes. So what's really going on here? You've reviewed the film already? Care to point us to those plays? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liquidfriend 1,151 Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 I agree with Phata some here. (I must not be feeling well) He didn't really run much staples of the WCO, mostly running around till guys worked themselves open. Didn't see any timing throws, dig routes, curls, etc. Was really just a wide open spread. His mechanics are still pretty wonky, ball placement is somewhat erratic and he doesn't quite know exactly where the perfect throwing lanes are. His passes are higher to avoid balls being batted down at the line, but in result his passes have a tendency to sail here and there. Receivers had to get after the ball quite a bit in result and that can lead his receivers to a bad spot. He needs to spend a lot of time studying Drew Brees in the offseason. There are also times where his internal clock isn't moving as fast as it needs to be and he took some unnecessary hits. He's gotta cut down on that. His arm strength, some of the absurd throws out of position and his ability to sustain long drives and get the job done are absurd for a rookie making his first ever start. His vision, ability to step up in the pocket and his ability to anticipate the rush is already beyond Alex Smith. He's gonna be really good, but isn't quite there yet. Needs to spend a lot of time working on timing and his mechanics more in the offseason, and pack on some weight. If he works hard enough I think he can take over as the starter in 2018. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xen 1,010,220 Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 I agree with Phata some here. (I must not be feeling well) He didn't really run much staples of the WCO, mostly running around till guys worked themselves open. Didn't see any timing throws, dig routes, curls, etc. Was really just a wide open spread. His mechanics are still pretty wonky, ball placement is somewhat erratic and he doesn't quite know exactly where the perfect throwing lanes are. His passes are higher to avoid balls being batted down at the line, but in result his passes have a tendency to sail here and there. Receivers had to get after the ball quite a bit in result and that can lead his receivers to a bad spot. He needs to spend a lot of time studying Drew Brees in the offseason. There are also times where his internal clock isn't moving as fast as it needs to be and he took some unnecessary hits. He's gotta cut down on that. His arm strength, some of the absurd throws out of position and his ability to sustain long drives and get the job done are absurd for a rookie making his first ever start. His vision, ability to step up in the pocket and his ability to anticipate the rush is already beyond Alex Smith. He's gonna be really good, but isn't quite there yet. Needs to spend a lot of time working on timing and his mechanics more in the offseason, and pack on some weight. If he works hard enough I think he can take over as the starter in 2018. I'd agree with most of that. However all the things he needs to work on really have to come with game experience. He has had almost no play time with those receivers while on the scout team. His receivers are on the practice squad (dieter and that other kid). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhataLerror 370 Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 I'd agree with most of that. However all the things he needs to work on really have to come with game experience. He has had almost no play time with those receivers while on the scout team. His receivers are on the practice squad (dieter and that other kid). And I'll grant this. The problem is that at some point you have to acknowledge that "success" with Mahomes is going to be capped by his ability to execute from the pocket. I would have rather seen 9 completions (or 9 on-target pass attempts) for 122 yards (or the equivalent after adjusting for drops) on passes thrown from the pocket on dropbacks. Today I saw a quarterback who looked just like he did at Texas Tech. I literally have no basis for projecting this kid's future. Nothing about today suggests that he's going to adapt to a West Coast Offense as soon as next September. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhataLerror 370 Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 I agree with Phata some here. (I must not be feeling well) He didn't really run much staples of the WCO, mostly running around till guys worked themselves open. Didn't see any timing throws, dig routes, curls, etc. Was really just a wide open spread. Thank you for being willing to validate an observation that really wasn't outrageous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liquidfriend 1,151 Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 I'd agree with most of that. However all the things he needs to work on really have to come with game experience. He has had almost no play time with those receivers while on the scout team. His receivers are on the practice squad (dieter and that other kid). He has spent time with some of the receivers that played today. I would of liked to have seen a little bit better timing, but I can recognize first start ever and I am sure he was overly excited. But yes, most of it will get there with more playing time but he needs to work a little more within the confines of the West Coast Offense. A nice balance between that and sandlot ball is ideal. Thank you for being willing to validate an observation that really wasn't outrageous. I can be reasonable, although we disagree on nearly everything lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xen 1,010,220 Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 And I'll grant this. The problem is that at some point you have to acknowledge that "success" with Mahomes is going to be capped by his ability to execute from the pocket. I would have rather seen 9 completions (or 9 on-target pass attempts) for 122 yards (or the equivalent after adjusting for drops) on passes thrown from the pocket on dropbacks. Today I saw a quarterback who looked just like he did at Texas Tech. I literally have no basis for projecting this kid's future. Nothing about today suggests that he's going to adapt to a West Coast Offense as soon as next September. We won't be running a pure WCO offense. Andy will adapt the offense around Mahomes and mix in spread concepts that highlight what he does well, just like he did for Alex. Andy has been prepping for this since he came to KC. Why you think he hired guys to scout the spread? At some point he was going to be breaking in a new qb, most likely from a spread offense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calichief 3,024 Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 We won't be running a pure WCO offense. Andy will adapt the offense around Mahomes and mix in spread concepts that highlight what he does well, just like he did for Alex. Andy has been prepping for this since he came to KC. Why you think he hired guys to scout the spread? At some point he was going to be breaking in a new qb, most likely from a spread offense.Yep. Why wouldnt you play to those strengths. You are going to see a Big Ben type offense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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