Switch to a 4-3

[Nonchalant29 23]

Thats fine as long as he is depth. If he is our solution as a starter we can expect more of a lack of explosive plays.

Not sure I agree.. remember he came over late. If we bring him back it will be his first offseason in our system. He is also very athletic.. I think he adds a lot, but if dj has his way kpl will be rotating with him m again next year. I think it's time for dj to coach n let rags, kpl, Ramik, t smith n eligwe hold it down. Not a lot of proven production out of that crop, but I'd argue it's easily one of the deeper and more talented groups of ilbs in the league.

[Thegoatee 1,780]

Commentators kept talking about the Pittsburgh like creativity Tenn had, with zone blitzs and lots of guys standing around the line with us having no idea who was rushing. I still remember some other games with other teams blitzing a corner here and there a couple of times a game. We have the most vanilla, predictable crap scheme I’ve ever seen. The three linemen do nothing and Houston, Hali, Zombo etc rush the tackles. No stunts. No creativity. Nothing. The DJ blitz sack fumble no fumble was about the most creative we got all year.

[Nonchalant29 23]

Commentators kept talking about the Pittsburgh like creativity Tenn had, with zone blitzs and lots of guys standing around the line with us having no idea who was rushing. I still remember some other games with other teams blitzing a corner here and there a couple of times a game. We have the most vanilla, predictable crap scheme I’ve ever seen. The three linemen do nothing and Houston, Hali, Zombo etc rush the tackles. No stunts. No creativity. Nothing. The DJ blitz sack fumble no fumble was about the most creative we got all year.

Those fun, exotic things are in our scheme trust and believe.. hell we have even seen glimpses of such.. problem is most of the time they aren't in our game plan, or at least they haven't been getting dialed up as much as promised when this organization introduced us to bob.

[Iluvhouse24 1,808]

Not sure I agree.. remember he came over late. If we bring him back it will be his first offseason in our system. He is also very athletic.. I think he adds a lot, but if dj has his way kpl will be rotating with him m again next year. I think it's time for dj to coach n let rags, kpl, Ramik, t smith n eligwe hold it down. Not a lot of proven production out of that crop, but I'd argue it's easily one of the deeper and more talented groups of ilbs in the league.

DJ is done here. 8 million dollar cap savings...done.

[Nonchalant29 23]

DJ is done here. 8 million dollar cap savings...done.

I love me some dj, but I do think it's time for him to coach.. not sure if him saying he wants to play next year is due to the fact he is owed so much next year or what.. hopefully if he is here next year as a player we renegotiate his deal.. I don't have a ton of faith that this organization will move on from him thanks to how they have handled Hali.

[KCJohnKC 33]

I like this idea of 4-3.

 

If you don't have a tough nosetackle who can penetrate then your toast.

So, understand that I'm not picking on you here please...

 

Would you call Vince Wolfork one of the better/best NT of all time?

 

Any of you?

[Chiefswinitall 60]

So, understand that I'm not picking on you here please...

 

Would you call Vince Wolfork one of the better/best NT of all time?

 

Any of you?

He's DAMN GOOD and PUSHES THE POCKET.   ACTIVE!   Benny Hill Logan? comeon.

[KCJohnKC 33]

He's DAMN GOOD and PUSHES THE POCKET. ACTIVE! Benny Hill Logan? comeon.

I agree with you, now because I'm computer illiterate my illustrations (that I can't figure out) of Wilforks career vs. Logans vs Poe even, would show that the stats are all very similar. Poe had two monster sack years in 13 and 14 (spoiled us all) but those are easily the exception and not the rule.

 

What I'm trying to say is that the majority of us would agree that Wilfork was a Hoss! Comparing stats, Logan is easily a legitimate NT if not a very good one. Logan had many plays this year in the backfield either disrupting or making a play.

 

NT's aren't the centerpiece of statistics for a Defense. Never have been, nor is that their role.

 

The point of this isn't to say that Logan is the end all be all, it's simply to reiterate the point that we had a legitimate NT this year when it's assumed we didn't.

[Nonchalant29 23]

I agree with you, now because I'm computer illiterate my illustrations (that I can't figure out) of Wilforks career vs. Logans vs Poe even, would show that the stats are all very similar. Poe had two monster sack years in 13 and 14 (spoiled us all) but those are easily the exception and not the rule.

What I'm trying to say is that the majority of us would agree that Wilfork was a Hoss! Comparing stats, Logan is easily a legitimate NT if not a very good one. Logan had many plays this year in the backfield either disrupting or making a play.

NT's aren't the centerpiece of statistics for a Defense. Never have been, nor is that their role.

The point of this isn't to say that Logan is the end all be all, it's simply to reiterate the point that we had a legitimate NT this year when it's assumed we didn't.

I like Logan, but he was ok, probably not what we were expecting, maybe because we are use to seeing so munch beef there.. I don't like his price tag. He wasn't worth 8 mil. Your point tho about stats doesn't really hold water considering the position we are talking about. As you alluded to these guys jobs aren't to be stat monsters.. it's the unrecorded stats that separate these players.. how many times in wilforks career did you see even a double team push him more than a yard off the ball? I'd wager less times in the prime of his career than Logan did just in this year, n some of those were just against 1 man.. those two players may be close in stats, but that's about it.

[liquidfriend 1,151]

The more I see the film, more and more I just see absolutely retarded alignments put out on the field by Bob Sutton.

 

He needs to go.

[KCJohnKC 33]

I like Logan, but he was ok, probably not what we were expecting, maybe because we are use to seeing so munch beef there.. I don't like his price tag. He wasn't worth 8 mil. Your point tho about stats doesn't really hold water considering the position we are talking about. As you alluded to these guys jobs aren't to be stat monsters.. it's the unrecorded stats that separate these players.. how many times in wilforks career did you see even a double team push him more than a yard off the ball? I'd wager less times in the prime of his career than Logan did just in this year, n some of those were just against 1 man.. those two players may be close in stats, but that's about it.

There's obviously a difference between the two. I tried to get it across but it's hard to do it justice with written word only.

 

Logan had a pretty Damn good year. There were more than a couple games that he was a force. Remember now that in the sub packages that he's not in there and we all know how often we were exposed to those this year.

 

We all remember Wilfork as you describe him. Truth be told there were plenty of lulls between those monster plays. We just don't see them all. In fact many of us only get to see the highlights.

[Nonchalant29 23]

I truly do like Logan I just don't want him eating up that much cap moving foreward

[Iluvhouse24 1,808]

I truly do like Logan I just don't want him eating up that much cap moving foreward

Another reason to like a 43. We dont have to look for that rare player that can handle the nose in a 34.

[Nonchalant29 23]

Another reason to like a 43. We dont have to look for that rare player that can handle the nose in a 34.

Your 4-3 obsession clouds reality.. a 0 tech or nose in a 3-4 front lines head up on the center, that same player in a 4-3 front lines up as a 1 tech shaded on the centers shoulder.

 

What really makes a difference is if you are a 1 gap penetrating d line or a 2 gap eat up blockers d line.. even then wether we talk about 3-4 or 4-3, or 1 gap/ 2 gap most NFL teams run ALL of these schemes throughout the course of 1 NFL game.

 

My point of not wanting to pay that position 8 mil to be on the field 48% of the time has nothing to do with 3-4, 4-3, 1 gap, 2 gap. These players aren't that rare.. now if you are expecting sack numbers like Poe had for a year er two keep dreaming bud those players are less than rare! Not many men have graced this earth with poes measurable and athletic abilities.

[Calichief 3,016]

He's DAMN GOOD and PUSHES THE POCKET. ACTIVE! Benny Hill Logan? comeon.

Wilfork was a beast

[ChiefsFoolFan 149]

The more I see the film, more and more I just see absolutely retarded alignments put out on the field by Bob Sutton.

 

He needs to go.

Doing this alone would fix many of the defense’s woes. Fire Sutton. Go grab an aggressive DC. Get a DE, OLB, & 1 more DB. Zombo & Sorensen should have been special teamers for us. They saw the field way too much.

[Mloe68 1,521]

Your 4-3 obsession clouds reality.. a 0 tech or nose in a 3-4 front lines head up on the center, that same player in a 4-3 front lines up as a 1 tech shaded on the centers shoulder.

 

What really makes a difference is if you are a 1 gap penetrating d line or a 2 gap eat up blockers d line.. even then wether we talk about 3-4 or 4-3, or 1 gap/ 2 gap most NFL teams run ALL of these schemes throughout the course of 1 NFL game.

 

My point of not wanting to pay that position 8 mil to be on the field 48% of the time has nothing to do with 3-4, 4-3, 1 gap, 2 gap. These players aren't that rare.. now if you are expecting sack numbers like Poe had for a year er two keep dreaming bud those players are less than rare! Not many men have graced this earth with poes measurable and athletic abilities.

Valid point about this being a sub package League. So question really becomes what sub packages your NT plays in to help decide whether he’s really worth it. Poe was in 75% of our snaps in 2016. He was a sub package regular. In fact he performed better there than in base. Logan signed an almost identical contract but only played in 51 percent of snaps. Better in base but more limited. I’d like Logan back but it needs to me reasonable. He’s a part timer and that won’t change.

[Iluvhouse24 1,808]

Your 4-3 obsession clouds reality.. a 0 tech or nose in a 3-4 front lines head up on the center, that same player in a 4-3 front lines up as a 1 tech shaded on the centers shoulder.

What really makes a difference is if you are a 1 gap penetrating d line or a 2 gap eat up blockers d line.. even then wether we talk about 3-4 or 4-3, or 1 gap/ 2 gap most NFL teams run ALL of these schemes throughout the course of 1 NFL game.

My point of not wanting to pay that position 8 mil to be on the field 48% of the time has nothing to do with 3-4, 4-3, 1 gap, 2 gap. These players aren't that rare.. now if you are expecting sack numbers like Poe had for a year er two keep dreaming bud those players are less than rare! Not many men have graced this earth with poes measurable and athletic abilities.

Yeah I completely disagree. A true, effective 3-4 NT whether in a penetrating one gap scheme, or a 2 gap scheme where hes asked to line up over center and responsible for gaps on both sides, is a rare player. If they werent, more teams would have 295 lb DTs on the nose in 34 schemes. Nor would you have a guy there who is 6'5" like Jones because interior lineman can get up under their pads and create leverage more easily.

 

It needs to be a bigger guy who is hard to move off the ball. I dont give a damn if he never plays a 3rd down the entire season. These players ARE rare and they need a certain stature and body type. Bud.

[Nonchalant29 23]

Yeah I completely disagree. A true, effective 3-4 NT whether in a penetrating one gap scheme, or a 2 gap scheme where hes asked to line up over center and responsible for gaps on both sides, is a rare player. If they werent, more teams would have 295 lb DTs on the nose in 34 schemes. Nor would you have a guy there who is 6'5" like Jones because interior lineman can get up under their pads and create leverage more easily.

It needs to be a bigger guy who is hard to move off the ball. I dont give a damn if he never plays a 3rd down the entire season. These players ARE rare and they need a certain stature and body type. Bud.

Lol check your facts.. 295 dt is not uncommon and actually is too damn small. Hell that close to the cut off for what you want you 3 n 5 techs. Check the rosters. Name me one team 3-4 or 4-3 (since some here are so convinced that there is that much difference) that doesn't have a 315-330 behemoth or 3 on their roster. I agree that you want a large body in the middle of your defense, but your fooling yourself if you think there is a lack of 295+lb d linemen in this league.. now if you also want that behemoth to be able to push the pocket in passing downs, yeah those guys aren't as prevalent.

[Iluvhouse24 1,808]

Lol check your facts.. 295 dt is not uncommon and actually is too damn small. Hell that close to the cut off for what you want you 3 n 5 techs. Check the rosters. Name me one team 3-4 or 4-3 (since some here are so convinced that there is that much difference) that doesn't have a 315-330 behemoth or 3 on their roster. I agree that you want a large body in the middle of your defense, but your fooling yourself if you think there is a lack of 295+lb d linemen in this league.. now if you also want that behemoth to be able to push the pocket in passing downs, yeah those guys aren't as prevalent.

Somwhow you are agreeing with me and disagreeing with me at the same time. A 295 lb DT is common, yes. A 295 lb NT in a 34 is uncommon. Thats what I am saying. The 295-310 lb DTs are everywhere. And like you said those guys are a better fit at DE in a 34 base. The 315-330 lb guy is necessary to be an effective NT as a 2 down run stuffer. I dont think there is a ton of guys in that weight range that play WELL at NT in a 34. Maybe there are more guys that COULD. But fact is not many colleges run a 34 base and half of those guys in the 315-330 range are on NFL rosters of teams that play a 43.

 

Right now with Logan as a FA we dont have a single guy on our roster who fits in that role. So if we stay in a 34 we will have to target one in the draft or FA. Whereas if we switch to a base 43 we have a lot more of those guys in the 295-310 lb range we can look at as starters at DT.

 

Fair enough?

[Nonchalant29 23]

I miss read.. fair enough.. we agree with the girth needed in the middle of the d, however I believe that guy is needed in whatever front you present. We do have one girthy young buck currently on the roster, but he is unproven. Still here is hoping he can develop into something. Justin Hamilton 6' 2" 315