WE DON'T NEED TO DESPAIR IF SUTTON STAYS!!

[MisChief-Maker 135]

Ok yall, like everyone I was baying for blood after the Tennessee debacle, and felt there was no-way in hell that Sutton could possibly stay. But as the days have gone by and the possibility of him staying becomes more and more real, I decided to just reflect on the conditions of which he had to work in, and the results that followed.

 

Firstly, let's look at the games and how many points we conceded.

 

Pats= 27

Philly= 20

Chargers= 10

Skins= 20

Texans= 34

Pitt= 19

Raiders= 31

Denver= 19

Cowboys= 28

Giants= 12

Bills= 16

Jets= 38

Raiders= 15

Chargers= 13

Miami= 13

Denver= 24

Titans= 22

 

So let's do the maths. Out of seventeen games, we only allowed more than 25 points five times. We also kept teams under twenty points eight times, nearly half the total amount of games we played. There were some horror shows, no doubt, but I think that is respectable when you factor in these issues.

 

1. The loss of Berry was crucial. Having the likes of Parker, Murray and Sorensen be key figures in the secondary was always gonna hurt us every now and then.

 

2. Our weakness In the right cornerback spot was exposed time and time again. And that's not really on Sutton, is it? He could only work with what he had the reality is he had Gaines, Mitchell, Acker and an old Revis playing there.

 

3. DJ and Hali got old overnight, and that played a big role this season because those are the experienced guys in the defense that should be guiding the others. 

 

4. Houston and Ford injuries. With Justin the guy seemed to be on the injury report every week and was missing various practice days. And with Dee his back just wouldn't let up and this killed us when it came to pressuring the QB. And as a result, he had to rely on the likes of Zombo and Jenkins this season.

 

So basically guys the man was dealt a tough hand to play with this season. And as I think about the future, and all the upheaval going on with coaches at other teams, maybe we might be better off standing on the side of stability and seeing where it takes us? I mean, do yall honestly think Bob wouldn't do better with the likes of Berry back and some new studs brought in for him to work with? I think he'd do much better tbh.

 

Yes, he had some very poor moments this season, but sometimes the luck just wasn't on our side. Jones went out of the Titans game and it killed us. Calls went against us against both the Jets and the Raiders and he was in no way to blame for the Giants, Bills and Steelers defeats imo.

 

So in closing, I just want my fellow Chiefs to not go haywire if it is confirmed that Sutton stays, because when you look at what he had to work with this season, the guy done as good as he could IMO. The bottom line Is we had some studs on the defense like Peters, Jones, Ragland and Houston, but they were surrounded by pure trash. And when that is the case, you're gonna have sporadic performances because the studs can't bail out the poor players every single week. If Veach pulls some strings and brings in some quality defensive players, I wouldn't bet against us having a top defense next season. Let's keep the faith yall.

[Iluvhouse24 1,808]

Yeah, I will give up my season ticket if he is retained. How's that for not despairing?

[Mloe68 1,521]

I agree. The Chiefs were 5tb in total defense in 2013, 2nd in 2014 and 3rd in 2015. His scheme is simplistic and I’d much prefer new blood for the many new players as we retool defense. It’s just a perfect time. But we were REALLY good for three years before injuries and age caught up to us. Not to mention we led the NFL in turnovers created in that period. What we need more than anything is an upgrade in talent.

[MisChief-Maker 135]

Yeah, I will give up my season ticket if he is retained. How's that for not despairing?

 

That's your choice bro, just putting the facts forward and letting folks know that Bob isn't as bad as we think. Yes, the playoff loses are pathetic, but Andy is the kind of the kingdom, not Sutton.

[Lamardirts 2,114]

I'm tired of excuses. Every team deals with injuries. There was no creativity only ramming his scheme down our throats when it clearly wasn't working. We played nominal journeymen a lot instead of young rookies who needed reps. Is sutton terrible? No, but it's time for a change.

[Mloe68 1,521]

I'm tired of excuses. Every team deals with injuries. There was no creativity only ramming his scheme down our throats when it clearly wasn't working. We played nominal journeymen a lot instead of young rookies who needed reps. Is sutton terrible? No, but it's time for a change.

I like this take quite a bit and agree he tried fitting a square peg into a round hole especially with Sorenson this year. And interesting take on playing younger guys. I do think we had such gaping holes at CB and rushing the passer it limited him. Most of our secondary guys were bad tacklers that you can’t really blitz effectively. But he also made It very obvious st times if we were in base run or pass and needed to manufacture more pressure somehow.

[kkuenn 3,604]

Even when we were good, 2nd, 3rd etc. Those were points per game and buoyed by the fact we were getting good and timely turnovers too that at times led to direct points by the defense. Thing is, you can't continue to give up huge chunks of yards, give up time of possession by keeping the defense on the field for so long and continue to expect we will get that turn over. How were we in total yards given up in thise years that we had an opportune defense?

 

They were not get any younger and we continued to keep them on the field for long periods of time. Now our offense finally showed most of the time, and when we needed the defense to make a stop they could not do it.

 

I want an attacking defense. Make them turn it over because of pressure too and also be a league leader in sacks etc. Quit going dime when nickel should bebthe defemse and getting caught with your pants down. Use Houston to rush more and cover less for once and let him at the qb

[Mloe68 1,521]

Even when we were good, 2nd, 3rd etc. Those were points per game and buoyed by the fact we were getting good and timely turnovers too that at times led to direct points by the defense. Thing is, you can't continue to give up huge chunks of yards, give up time of possession by keeping the defense on the field for so long and continue to expect we will get that turn over. How were we in total yards given up in thise years that we had an opportune defense?

 

They were not get any younger and we continued to keep them on the field for long periods of time. Now our offense finally showed most of the time, and when we needed the defense to make a stop they could not do it.

 

I want an attacking defense. Make them turn it over because of pressure too and also be a league leader in sacks etc. Quit going dime when nickel should bebthe defemse and getting caught with your pants down. Use Houston to rush more and cover less for once and let him at the qb

We were definitely more opportunistic in 2013 but we were so bad on defense in 2012 that it was still clear progress. We were 7th in yards allowed in both 2014 and 2015. 7th and 6th in sacks. We were 25th in sacks this season by the way. Point is we were getting to the QB and creating turnovers until last season.

[sith13 1,746]

I literally don't care about the points allowed in regular season games. Chiefs are good enough to consistently get to the playoffs, once we get there neither Sutton nor Reid are capable of standing their own but fold like cheap plastic. Besides a game against lame Hoyer these guys have been terrible coaches that never looked like they belong in the playoffs. 

[Evad 242]

Ok yall, like everyone I was baying for blood after the Tennessee debacle

Are you a werewolf?

[soonerborn77 276]

Isn't the point of a good DC to adjust to injuries which we see Sutton does not?  

[Sonder 47]

I'm tired of excuses. Every team deals with injuries. There was no creativity only ramming his scheme down our throats when it clearly wasn't working. We played nominal journeymen a lot instead of young rookies who needed reps. Is sutton terrible? No, but it's time for a change.

The Chiefs tried about every scheme possible under Sutton. Go back and watch. Everything.

 

They gave up 2 TD’s in Oakland when they blitzed, soon and behold...they stopped doing it in that game!

 

This is a talent problem through and through. Frank Zombo, Daniel Sorenson, Eric Murray and Philip Gaines were starting a lot of games for this team bc we had nobody else.

 

None of those guys are good enough to be on an NFL roster. If you can’t see that Dorsey screwed us over, then I can’t help you.

[Sonder 47]

Isn't the point of a good DC to adjust to injuries which we see Sutton does not?

After the bye, the Chiefs had 1 bad game against NYJ. They gave up 12, 16, 15, 13, 15, 13 and 22 points in the other games (not counting Denver bc it was basically a preseason game).

It took a fluke Marriotta pass deflection to himself for the Titans to score 22 points.

 

Seriously look at the roster and tell me what any DC can do in the Titans game. No Berry, No Ford, no Nacho, Chris Jones got hurt. Here is what Sutton had to work with in the 2nd half:

 

Houston, Logan, Zombo, Hamilton, Old DJ who is done, KPL, Ragland, old Tamba who is done, Sorenson, Murray, Parker, Peters, Revis.

 

That’s the least talented defense in the league. I see 6 players on that list who shouldn’t be starting in the NFL right now.

[dksww 484]

I don't want Sutton to stay but if he does, they HAVE to make moves to add more talent...at least you would think so, but...

[MisChief-Maker 135]

After the bye, the Chiefs had 1 bad game against NYJ. They gave up 12, 16, 15, 13, 15, 13 and 22 points in the other games (not counting Denver bc it was basically a preseason game).

It took a fluke Marriotta pass deflection to himself for the Titans to score 22 points.

 

Seriously look at the roster and tell me what any DC can do in the Titans game. No Berry, No Ford, no Nacho, Chris Jones got hurt. Here is what Sutton had to work with in the 2nd half:

 

Houston, Logan, Zombo, Hamilton, Old DJ who is done, KPL, Ragland, old Tamba who is done, Sorenson, Murray, Parker, Peters, Revis.

 

That’s the least talented defense in the league. I see 6 players on that list who shouldn’t be starting in the NFL right now.

 

Completely agree sir. Like many I wouldn't mind bringing in someone younger and more aggressive as our DC, but IF Sutton stays then he has my full backing because IMO he showed his class in the second half of the season to keep that defense together. Injuries are what killed us/him in the end, not scheme.

[soonerborn77 276]

After the bye, the Chiefs had 1 bad game against NYJ. They gave up 12, 16, 15, 13, 15, 13 and 22 points in the other games (not counting Denver bc it was basically a preseason game).

It took a fluke Marriotta pass deflection to himself for the Titans to score 22 points.

 

Seriously look at the roster and tell me what any DC can do in the Titans game. No Berry, No Ford, no Nacho, Chris Jones got hurt. Here is what Sutton had to work with in the 2nd half:

 

Houston, Logan, Zombo, Hamilton, Old DJ who is done, KPL, Ragland, old Tamba who is done, Sorenson, Murray, Parker, Peters, Revis.

 

That’s the least talented defense in the league. I see 6 players on that list who shouldn’t be starting in the NFL right now.

 

So here's the counter point, were we that much of a better defense when all those guys were healthy?  It seemed like we just relied on our stars to make big plays, almost bail us out at times.  I see no creativity, no adjustments regardless who is out there.  I see teams where good offenses exploit a weakness and we never adjust to it.

[dksww 484]

My guess is Sutton and Reid realize how handcuffed they are talent wise on defense and Reid will give Sutton 1 more year. 

 

E. Berry injury killed us.

 

The scheme sucks, but let's be honest, like Sonder pointed out, no DC is gonna have a top 5 defense relying on guys like Zombo, Sorenson, Hali, Gaines or whoever it was playing CB opposite Peters.

 

 

Gary McKenzie‏ @Super_G_Chiefs 2h2 hours ago

List of Chiefs defenders who were poor in 2017 according to PFF: Zombo, RNR, Sorenson, Parker, Mitchell, Revis, Gaines, Murray, Ford. KC's defense is just not in a good place right now. Significant improvements need to be made, especially in the secondary and at OLB.

[Holmes4six! 972]

the problem with Sutton is the half time adjustments. When you know the run is coming ( as in Tennessee) and you have the lead, how do they consistently beat us?

 

I understand he didn't have a full deck, but a lot teams don't in the playoffs. I expect a NFL D coordinator to make adjustments at half time. Its plain and simple. He does not do that, nor has he done that in any of the playoff games.

 

There are times in business that a change is required. This is one of those times.

 

As mentioned before, each day that goes by is another day that indicates he will be on the sidelines this September.

[xen 1,010,220]

Good work MisChief. I agree. Not the worst thing to happen to us. I would like a change but no doubt the defense needs an influx of talent either way.

[Chiefswinitall 60]

I literally don't care about the points allowed in regular season games. Chiefs are good enough to consistently get to the playoffs, once we get there neither Sutton nor Reid are capable of standing their own but fold like cheap plastic. Besides a game against lame Hoyer these guys have been terrible coaches that never looked like they belong in the playoffs. 

Savvy coaches understand this.  They know what this humble  population really wants.  They think playoffs are good enough.  Marty survived on that for some $$$. Same with Peterson.    5 years is too long with a coach or GM.   Chiefs fans don't understand this.    Andy shouldn't have been given an extension.

 

If we stay with Adolf/Sutton then why not bring back Dick Vermeil and his DCoord.   Yeah.  Spin your wheels boys.    What happens with good players and you fail against good teams(playoff teams)?

 

Some franchises are screwups and desperate to sell tickets - this includes the Chiefs.

[Chiefswinitall 60]

the problem with Sutton is the half time adjustments. When you know the run is coming ( as in Tennessee) and you have the lead, how do they consistently beat us?

 

I understand he didn't have a full deck, but a lot teams don't in the playoffs. I expect a NFL D coordinator to make adjustments at half time. Its plain and simple. He does not do that, nor has he done that in any of the playoff games.

 

There are times in business that a change is required. This is one of those times.

 

As mentioned before, each day that goes by is another day that indicates he will be on the sidelines this September.

The problem is good teams run up and down the field on us.  This defense style doesn't dictate , it follows.

[Mloe68 1,521]

Savvy coaches understand this. They know what this humble population really wants. They think playoffs are good enough. Marty survived on that for some $$$. Same with Peterson. 5 years is too long with a coach or GM. Chiefs fans don't understand this. Andy shouldn't have been given an extension.

 

If we stay with Adolf/Sutton then why not bring back Dick Vermeil and his DCoord. Yeah. Spin your wheels boys. What happens with good players and you fail against good teams(playoff teams)?

 

Some franchises are screwups and desperate to sell tickets - this includes the Chiefs.

Very odd post of the day when you consider we beat the two number one seeds. And if they just wanted to sell tickets why draft Mahomes and risk a consistent regular season winnings we have with Alex? Just nonsensical logic.

For the tenth time. The Chiefs defense was damn good with this coordinator until the old GM hung on to regressing injury riddled veterans that killed our CAP. We’d all like a new coordinator, but more talent to replace the has beens is much more crucial.

[sith13 1,746]

After the bye, the Chiefs had 1 bad game against NYJ. They gave up 12, 16, 15, 13, 15, 13 and 22 points in the other games (not counting Denver bc it was basically a preseason game).

It took a fluke Marriotta pass deflection to himself for the Titans to score 22 points.

 

Seriously look at the roster and tell me what any DC can do in the Titans game. No Berry, No Ford, no Nacho, Chris Jones got hurt. Here is what Sutton had to work with in the 2nd half:

 

Houston, Logan, Zombo, Hamilton, Old DJ who is done, KPL, Ragland, old Tamba who is done, Sorenson, Murray, Parker, Peters, Revis.

 

That’s the least talented defense in the league. I see 6 players on that list who shouldn’t be starting in the NFL right now.

 

Keep in mind that QB-less Bills and Chargers are the only teams we played with winning records. The rest have been dead meat. 

 

The problem in the Titans game was the mentality not the squad. BTW DJ wasn't done in that game, he really came to play. If Sutton didn't fold the defense would still hold up with all the injuries. Besides DC is supposed to adjust to the current squad, no team in the NFL ever finished a season without injuries.

[Sonder 47]

So here's the counter point, were we that much of a better defense when all those guys were healthy? It seemed like we just relied on our stars to make big plays, almost bail us out at times. I see no creativity, no adjustments regardless who is out there. I see teams where good offenses exploit a weakness and we never adjust to it.

Go back and watch our games. We’ve lined up in so many different formations and none of them worked consistently. It puzzles me that people think we weren’t creative bc we were.

 

We literally could not blitz often bc our secondary was bad. We gave up 2 TD’s in Oakland when we blitzes, 1 in NYJ when we blitzes and also another in the Dallas game.

People get mad about not blitzing but forget that our secondary could not cover.

 

The final play in the playoff game that killed us was Marriotta (yes a QB!!!) blocking Zombo and freeing the edge.

 

That was the epitome of our defense. The scheme wasn’t the problem. The execution was as bad as I’ve ever seen it.

[Mloe68 1,521]

Go back and watch our games. We’ve lined up in so many different formations and none of them worked consistently. It puzzles me that people think we weren’t creative bc we were.

 

We literally could not blitz often bc our secondary was bad. We gave up 2 TD’s in Oakland when we blitzes, 1 in NYJ when we blitzes and also another in the Dallas game.

People get mad about not blitzing but forget that our secondary could not cover.

 

The final play in the playoff game that killed us was Marriotta (yes a QB!!!) blocking Zombo and freeing the edge.

 

That was the epitome of our defense. The scheme wasn’t the problem. The execution was as bad as I’ve ever seen it.

Agree and disagree Somder. First I think you are a voice of reason that we were undone defensively more by talent than scheme. Sutton was handicapped by a unit that simply had to many holes and still figured out a way to deliver a solid overalll finish after the Jets debacle.

Where I disagree is that we had indeed become very predictable st times and Tony Romo really pointed this out on several occassikns. Likewise going back to the Jets game specifically we finally had McCown on his heels late in the game by applying pressure he didn’t react well too. And then we let him off the hook. We didn’t have personel to be an attacking defense everyone wants. And we did get burned in that Raiders game a lot. But each game and QB is different. And I don’t think Sutton handled this well. He also forced Sorenson into a role he was never meant to play which shows some real inflexibility in his scheme.

Either way we need more talent. Two corners, an upgraded pass rush and someone to replace DJ.