WE DON'T NEED TO DESPAIR IF SUTTON STAYS!!

[dksww 484]

Just to be clear, everyone does understand that the problem with the defense can be BOTH an issue with Sutton's scheme and a talent/injury issue?

 

For me, I've never liked the scheme.  It is generally a passive, soft scheme and I don't like that we basically play prevent with any 2 score lead at any point in the game.

 

Sutton has had issues facing top offenses and QBs.  If the Chiefs' defense needed a key stop in order to get the ball back, they never get it.

 

However, some of the players are just flat out awful and the injuries never help either.

 

Yeah, I know, every team has injuries...but it does seem the Chiefs are snake bit(big surprise) when it comes to injuries to key guys over the past few seasons.

 

Yes, perfect scenario is mostly new talent and a new DC, I'm just not sure how realistic that option is for KC going into 2018.

[Sonder 47]

Just to be clear, everyone does understand that the problem with the defense can be BOTH an issue with Sutton's scheme and a talent/injury issue?

 

For me, I've never liked the scheme. It is generally a passive, soft scheme and I don't like that we basically play prevent with any 2 score lead at any point in the game.

 

Sutton has had issues facing top offenses and QBs. If the Chiefs' defense needed a key stop in order to get the ball back, they never get it.

 

However, some of the players are just flat out awful and the injuries never help either.

 

Yeah, I know, every team has injuries...but it does seem the Chiefs are snake bit(big surprise) when it comes to injuries to key guys over the past few seasons.

 

Yes, perfect scenario is mostly new talent and a new DC, I'm just not sure how realistic that option is for KC going into 2018.

It is frustrating at times, but the results are there. We finished top 10 in points allowed every year but this one.

We also allowed more than 21 points at home 1 time in the last 2 years, and it was because of a fluke pass deflection catch for a TD.

 

I would recommend anyone go back and watch the Eagles game. We were so creative and powerful on defense. Same with LA and Washington.

 

Losing Dee Ford and Eric Berry were monumental losses to a defense that barely had enough talent in the first place.

[Mloe68 1,521]

Just to be clear, everyone does understand that the problem with the defense can be BOTH an issue with Sutton's scheme and a talent/injury issue?

 

For me, I've never liked the scheme. It is generally a passive, soft scheme and I don't like that we basically play prevent with any 2 score lead at any point in the game.

 

Sutton has had issues facing top offenses and QBs. If the Chiefs' defense needed a key stop in order to get the ball back, they never get it.

 

However, some of the players are just flat out awful and the injuries never help either.

 

Yeah, I know, every team has injuries...but it does seem the Chiefs are snake bit(big surprise) when it comes to injuries to key guys over the past few seasons.

 

Yes, perfect scenario is mostly new talent and a new DC, I'm just not sure how realistic that option is for KC going into 2018.

I don’t know. I’m seeing some narratives that basically say this defense way underachieved because of scheme. The same scheme that worked well when we had Sean Smith, Tamba Hali and DJ playing at a high level. Plus other than Jones our dline gets no pressure. And this was a group that had 14-15 sacks per season before last year.

Either way I agree a new direction on defense is important in part because we won’t be the same type of offense anymore. And that takes players and scheme.

Sadly I’d disagree and believe we really weren’t that injury riddled on defense this year and still struggled. If you want snakebit by injury look at the Texans.

[Calichief 3,016]

It’s all the above, scheme, Sutton, injuries, lack of players.

 

You are all right.

 

We have worn this subject out. Be patient and let’s see what free agency brings as well as the draft before having an anyurism.

 

I agree that Sutton should go, the defense needs a fresh attitude. It’s like Reid’s predictability when calling plays. Giving up play calling is the best thing for Reid. Letting Sutton go would be the best thing for KC regardless of the talent.

 

If Reid is smart, he will part ways. If he doesn’t, let’s see what talent is brought in. Getting the Berry back will no doubt have an impact as he is the leader of defense anyway.

[MisChief-Maker 135]

Keep in mind that QB-less Bills and Chargers are the only teams we played with winning records. The rest have been dead meat. 

 

The problem in the Titans game was the mentality not the squad. BTW DJ wasn't done in that game, he really came to play. If Sutton didn't fold the defense would still hold up with all the injuries. Besides DC is supposed to adjust to the current squad, no team in the NFL ever finished a season without injuries.

 

But people are acting like allowing 22 points is some sort of "crime", when the reality is the offense completely fell apart in that second half. I mean let's be real here, if they score ONE FIELD GOAL, we win the game, so it wasn't just about the defense.

[Thegoatee 1,780]

I hate any scheme where defensive linemen basically exist to occupy blockers and not make plays on their own. Every level of our defense needs a talent overhaul and more versatile depth.

[dksww 484]

I don’t know. I’m seeing some narratives that basically say this defense way underachieved because of scheme. The same scheme that worked well when we had Sean Smith, Tamba Hali and DJ playing at a high level. Plus other than Jones our dline gets no pressure. And this was a group that had 14-15 sacks per season before last year.

Either way I agree a new direction on defense is important in part because we won’t be the same type of offense anymore. And that takes players and scheme.

Sadly I’d disagree and believe we really weren’t that injury riddled on defense this year and still struggled. If you want snakebit by injury look at the Texans.

 

But those players are older and not playing at that level anymore.  Hali isn't playing at all and we lost E. Berry week 1.

 

There's literally 4 good players on defense:  Berry(on IR), Houston, Jones and Peters.   Everyone else is either not that good, average(DJ) or unproven(Ragland, KPL, KPass).

 

Again, this isn't a defense of Sutton's scheme which I do not like, but the talent level is putrid as well. 

[reesebobby 5,663]

In 2014 when we had the 7th ranked defense, we played the Raiders twice that were 32nd in the league offensively, the Titans (29), Rams (28), Bills (26), Cards (24), Jets (22), and 49rs (20) and the Chargers twice (18). That's ten games out of 16 against some of the worst offenses in the league.

 

Same for 2015. We had the likes of the Browns, Vikes, Raiders twice, Packers, Lions. The only really good offense we faced that year was the Steelers.

 

We were better than this year, but our stats were helped out by playing a lot of games against terrible offenses.

[Mloe68 1,521]

It is frustrating at times, but the results are there. We finished top 10 in points allowed every year but this one.

We also allowed more than 21 points at home 1 time in the last 2 years, and it was because of a fluke pass deflection catch for a TD.

 

I would recommend anyone go back and watch the Eagles game. We were so creative and powerful on defense. Same with LA and Washington.

 

Losing Dee Ford and Eric Berry were monumental losses to a defense that barely had enough talent in the first place.

This was before teams figured out how to exploit Suttons defense without Berry and the ridiculous disaster of putting Sorenson in that nickel linebacker role. He tried to too long this year to fit a square peg into a round hole. Finally with Ragland, KPL, Nelson and Revis added to the lineup his basic scheme was largely effective against non playoff teams down the stretch. Tennessee was still in the game last Sunday against the Patriots and tried that same type of sweep play they clinched the game against us, but were met by about 4 Patriots defenders as clearly they had sniffed it out. 

[Sonder 47]

This was before teams figured out how to exploit Suttons defense without Berry and the ridiculous disaster of putting Sorenson in that nickel linebacker role. He tried to too long this year to fit a square peg into a round hole. Finally with Ragland, KPL, Nelson and Revis added to the lineup his basic scheme was largely effective against non playoff teams down the stretch. Tennessee was still in the game last Sunday against the Patriots and tried that same type of sweep play they clinched the game against us, but were met by about 4 Patriots defenders as clearly they had sniffed it out.

DJ is too slow. He’s done. So many times I saw teams run through his gap to the outside and he couldn’t get there. I’m sure you saw it too. Easy to see why Sorenson was playing there for awhile.

Parker is the worst tackler on the entire team. He isn’t an option.

 

We don’t have the players. Not for Sutton’s scheme. Not for really any scheme at this time.

[Chiefswinitall 60]

DJ is too slow. He’s done. So many times I saw teams run through his gap to the outside and he couldn’t get there. I’m sure you saw it too. Easy to see why Sorenson was playing there for awhile.

Parker is the worst tackler on the entire team. He isn’t an option.

 

We don’t have the players. Not for Sutton’s scheme. Not for really any scheme at this time.

We have had healthy players with a healthy Houston.  Our defenses were NEVER ELITE.    The guy has had more than enough time.   We were never a great tackling team either.  

[Mloe68 1,521]

But those players are older and not playing at that level anymore.  Hali isn't playing at all and we lost E. Berry week 1.

 

There's literally 4 good players on defense:  Berry(on IR), Houston, Jones and Peters.   Everyone else is either not that good, average(DJ) or unproven(Ragland, KPL, KPass).

 

Again, this isn't a defense of Sutton's scheme which I do not like, but the talent level is putrid as well. 

Absolutely. We let these guys hang around gobbling up valuable CAP space for too long and it bit us this year. But I like Steven Nelson as well. He's a very solid slot corner and the only corner on the roster who can tackle. And only 25 next year. Tanoh offers very real potential. As does Ragland who really flashed in year one. We need an outside corner to start immediately and a draft pick to groom at CB as well. ILB to replace DJ. DE to replace Bailey. Heck just better depth on the dline. And a real OLB to pair with Houston. We can't get all that in one offseason. So we will need to get what we can and band aid the rest on short term deals. We need out of CAP hell.

[DieHard 2,061]

We got run all over with Berry. Run D will be better when we don’t have to put in so many DBs to stop the pass. Pass rush and a CB will transform our D. Ragland is a stud.

 

I agree that DJ has slipped, but he was the D potg in the playoff game. He rocked it. If we can get him to take a big pay cut, he can still contribute. I like keeping Parker also, but not at that price.

 

Ford is not a big asset on the right side. I would not offer him much.

[Mloe68 1,521]

We got run all over with Berry. Run D will be better when we don’t have to put in so many DBs to stop the pass. Pass rush and a CB will transform our D. Ragland is a stud.

 

I agree that DJ has slipped, but he was the D potg in the playoff game. He rocked it. If we can get him to take a big pay cut, he can still contribute. I like keeping Parker also, but not at that price.

 

Ford is not a big asset on the right side. I would not offer him much.

Veach stole Ragland. Sorry most of my reply got erased. i

[xen 1,010,220]

Veach stole Ragland. Sorry most of my reply got erased. i

learned how to computer at Jayhawk school.

 

Finished it for ya. And yeah we know.

[Chiefswinitall 60]

Stan Weber of 810am said the Chiefs defense was terrible in the playoff game because players looked confused and missed tackles.  It's on Sutton.

[Palangi 788]

We missed tackles all year

[DieHard 2,061]

Yeah, real talented group. Sure wish Sutton hadn’t told them not to pressure the QB.

 

How does being confused make you a poor tackler? I can see how you would not be in position to make a tackle, but if you are there and a guy runs right through you? You can’t blame the coach for that.

[kkuenn 3,604]

Yeah, real talented group. Sure wish Sutton hadn’t told them not to pressure the QB.

 

How does being confused make you a poor tackler? I can see how you would not be in position to make a tackle, but if you are there and a guy runs right through you? You can’t blame the coach for that.

You can blame the coaches and especially Sutton. They watch tapes each and every week and if poor tackling was an issue, then guess what you need to practice on and harp on until they get it right. Especially if they saw this type of play week in and week out. Now if it was just one game and all year long they were great at tackling etc, then I can see blaming just the players for this one game but it was an issue all year. Some where the coach has to step in whether Reid as HC or Sutton as the D coordinator.

[Mloe68 1,521]

You can blame the coaches and especially Sutton. They watch tapes each and every week and if poor tackling was an issue, then guess what you need to practice on and harp on until they get it right. Especially if they saw this type of play week in and week out. Now if it was just one game and all year long they were great at tackling etc, then I can see blaming just the players for this one game but it was an issue all year. Some where the coach has to step in whether Reid as HC or Sutton as the D coordinator.

Problem is the CBA only allows for tackling in practice once a week, very limited in training camp and never during OTAs. You better draft people who are fundamentally sound there because you don’t have time in the NFL. Defenses start the season at a massive disadvantage because of it even if you have a good tackling team. This is really a Veach issue now.

[Legend of AC 269]

Good work MisChief. I agree. Not the worst thing to happen to us. I would like a change but no doubt the defense needs an influx of talent either way.[/quote

[DieHard 2,061]

You can blame the coaches and especially Sutton. They watch tapes each and every week and if poor tackling was an issue, then guess what you need to practice on and harp on until they get it right. Especially if they saw this type of play week in and week out. Now if it was just one game and all year long they were great at tackling etc, then I can see blaming just the players for this one game but it was an issue all year. Some where the coach has to step in whether Reid as HC or Sutton as the D coordinator.

I guess I am convinced it is a talent problem. You just can’t coach Dirty Dan to be Berry.

[Legend of AC 269]

FTS

[the Warparty 69]

The Chiefs tried about every scheme possible under Sutton. Go back and watch. Everything.

They gave up 2 TD’s in Oakland when they blitzed, soon and behold...they stopped doing it in that game!

This is a talent problem through and through. Frank Zombo, Daniel Sorenson, Eric Murray and Philip Gaines were starting a lot of games for this team bc we had nobody else.

None of those guys are good enough to be on an NFL roster. If you can’t see that Dorsey screwed us over, then I can’t help you.

I agree it's more of a talent issue, but not because this guys were on the roster, they're just not starters.

 

Another BIGGIE was banking on DJ and Hali to return as big contributors!

To me this was the biggest error, then add losing Berry, whom they were probably hoping he could hold them together

[kkuenn 3,604]

I guess I am convinced it is a talent problem. You just can’t coach Dirty Dan to be Berry.

Not every position back up is a pro bowler but again, the coaches have to realize this and not expect him to be Berry. To adjust to the player and scheme but not Sutton who kept plugging Dan away