Andy Reid vs. John Dorsey

[Iceman57 12]

I'm curious to see how fellow Chiefs fans feel about this past offseason drama which culminated in John Dorsey being fired and Andy Reid signed to a 5 year contract extension. Supposedly Brett Veach was thought to be the man behind all of the good Chiefs' successful Draft Picks, which we'll probably never really know if that's true or not, or just what Andy Reid and Clark Hunt would prefer that story.

 

There's no question that John Dorsey is a genius talent evaluator and scout. After the drafting of Tyreek Hill, Kareem Hunt, Laurent Duvernay-Tardiff, Marcus Peters, Chris Jones, Travis Kelce and even Eric Fisher to name a few of his best picks. I include Fisher because the whole 1st Round of the 2013 NFL Draft was one of the worst Drafts in NFL Draft History, resulting in many teams coming away with quality players and even some no longer in the NFL. Even in the Top 10 there were many misses: Dion Jordan, Jonathan Cooper and Luke Joeckel for example. Ezekiel Ansuh and Lane Johnson were the only players that were successful and still making an impact for the team that drafted them.

 

Andy Reid just apparently is having trouble adapting to the new NFL with it's ever evolving talent and play. Reid is still suffering from the issues he had in Philadelphia that would ultimately get himself ran out of town. The only thing that changed with Reid was the color of his clothes. Reid still managed to be good at hiring good coaching staffs and seeing them get promoted to Head Coaches to other teams in the NFL.

 

I personally would've preferred to keep John Dorsey over Reid. Dorsey's only major flaw was contract negotiations and managing the Salary Cap. Outside of that, Dorsey's talent evaluations are second to none in finding great prospects later in the Draft that other teams overlooked. I feel that Dorsey or Clark Hunt could've just brought in a top notch Salary Cap manager to help Dorsey in that area of weakness. If losing Andy Reid was going to happen, there were several good Head Coach options out there. Going in-house with promoting Matt Nagy would've been my top choice. Nagy proved he could successfully call plays run a good offense. Nagy's relationship to Brett Veach would be beneficial too, creating a more tight knit Front Office. Dave Toub would clearly be another good candidate too. I just feel that John Dorsey/Matt Nagy would be far superior than Andy Reid/Brett Veach. Infact, in a perfect world I'd actually prefer Matt Nagy/Brett Veach because of their long-term friendship dating back to when they played together in college.(Nagy/QB & Veach/WR)

[oldtimer 8,688]

yawn.. you lost me at 

 

 

There's no question that John Dorsey is a genius talent evaluator and scout. 

 

its no question Dorsey had a good nose for talent..but GENIUS? Give me a F'n break! Whats  good is it to be an elevator when you over pay  players? In today's salary cap world you cant have one without the other to be successful and of the two skills I'll take the cap manager.

 

 The book is still out on Veach  so you cant compare.

 

 Reid is what he is.. Marty prt 2 we needed a guy like him to bring stability to an organization in shambles.. I'd preferred not to of given him a 5 year extension but thats Clark's $$ not mine. We pretty much new what we were getting but many let their heart get ahead of their Brain and now take it out on Andy because of it

 

 this question might be batter asked after next season and seeing how Andy and Mahomes function together. When it comes to the move to get Mahomes I'm not really sure who made that call but I do know of the two ( Andy/John) with a new QB I like the idea of Andy being around over anyone else I can think of. Nagy as a HC is an unknown. I wish him luck as I like the Bears but I'm not holding my breath. If he wins the NFCNorse or gets in the playoffs next year  then I'll listen to arguments that maybe the wrong coach(S) were let go  and Andy  should of been told to hit the road.

 

[reesebobby 5,663]

I don't think you can use first round picks as evidence of great drafting.  Fisher, Peters, and Chris Jones were not exactly secrets that Dorsey just uncovered they should be expected to be good given their draft position and most of us could draft good players in the first round using nothing but Kiper and ESPN.  Kelce was a great pickup, and a year of Hunt looks pretty good.  But when you are including LDT in the top picks in 5 years that should be telling to you.

 

The overall depth and talent of the roster was weaker than we realized and was exposed by a couple injuries. There are two players from the 2013 draft on the roster, Fisher and Kelce.  Look at the 2014 Draft.  Dee Ford, Phillip Gaines, DAT, Aaron Murray, Zach Fulton and LDT.  We are weak at WR, CB, OLB and ILB.  

 

Every GM is going to have good picks in five drafts, it's not evidence of genius.  

[SEMO 6,812]

I don't think you can use first round picks as evidence of great drafting. Fisher, Peters, and Chris Jones were not exactly secrets that Dorsey just uncovered they should be expected to be good given their draft position and most of us could draft good players in the first round using nothing but Kiper and ESPN. Kelce was a great pickup, and a year of Hunt looks pretty good. But when you are including LDT in the top picks in 5 years that should be telling to you.

 

The overall depth and talent of the roster was weaker than we realized and was exposed by a couple injuries. There are two players from the 2013 draft on the roster, Fisher and Kelce. Look at the 2014 Draft. Dee Ford, Phillip Gaines, DAT, Aaron Murray, Zach Fulton and LDT. We are weak at WR, CB, OLB and ILB.

 

Every GM is going to have good picks in five drafts, it's not evidence of genius.

Jones was a 2nd round pick.

[sith13 1,746]

IMO both guys have flaws and I don't buy into making one of them a hero and the other one a bust. As a duo they have led to whatever Chiefs accomplished or failed over the 4 years they were in town. I'm not sure if the situation ever was Dorsey vs Reid in the contract talks but if that was the case I guess Hunt knows more about their performances than we do but could have also made a mistake. I don't think we have enough info to blame one over the other.

 

Looking at them individually I didn't like Dorsey's contract negotiations. Fisher's deal was probably the worst in the NFL history as we got neither a discount nor an extended time of service as he was extended 2 years before his free agency. The timing about the rest are probably ideal but we overpaid massively for our own guys which is very rare in the NFL. Success generally comes with retaining own FAs for reasonable deals. 

 

Regarding Reid he hasn't shown the balls needed for playoff success in KC. He's just too scared to play football when it matters and looks like a guy that has a ceiling below the SB. Made a lot of mistakes regarding team discipline and not sure if he plays well with others. Hopefully he gets better as we are stuck with him for a while.

 

IMO we could be better off replacing both guys after this season but that's just an opinion.

[hankstromboli 25]

One point I'd like to make is Veach was a high level scout with KC so there is a strong possibility he may have been behind some of the picks during the Dorsey days.

We'll have to wait and see 

[reesebobby 5,663]

Jones was a 2nd round pick.

Good catch. And he's played like a first or second round pick. I don't think you can say he's remarkable for where he was drafted.

[Mloe68 1,521]

I'm curious to see how fellow Chiefs fans feel about this past offseason drama which culminated in John Dorsey being fired and Andy Reid signed to a 5 year contract extension. Supposedly Brett Veach was thought to be the man behind all of the good Chiefs' successful Draft Picks, which we'll probably never really know if that's true or not, or just what Andy Reid and Clark Hunt would prefer that story.

 

There's no question that John Dorsey is a genius talent evaluator and scout. After the drafting of Tyreek Hill, Kareem Hunt, Laurent Duvernay-Tardiff, Marcus Peters, Chris Jones, Travis Kelce and even Eric Fisher to name a few of his best picks. I include Fisher because the whole 1st Round of the 2013 NFL Draft was one of the worst Drafts in NFL Draft History, resulting in many teams coming away with quality players and even some no longer in the NFL. Even in the Top 10 there were many misses: Dion Jordan, Jonathan Cooper and Luke Joeckel for example. Ezekiel Ansuh and Lane Johnson were the only players that were successful and still making an impact for the team that drafted them.

 

Andy Reid just apparently is having trouble adapting to the new NFL with it's ever evolving talent and play. Reid is still suffering from the issues he had in Philadelphia that would ultimately get himself ran out of town. The only thing that changed with Reid was the color of his clothes. Reid still managed to be good at hiring good coaching staffs and seeing them get promoted to Head Coaches to other teams in the NFL.

 

I personally would've preferred to keep John Dorsey over Reid. Dorsey's only major flaw was contract negotiations and managing the Salary Cap. Outside of that, Dorsey's talent evaluations are second to none in finding great prospects later in the Draft that other teams overlooked. I feel that Dorsey or Clark Hunt could've just brought in a top notch Salary Cap manager to help Dorsey in that area of weakness. If losing Andy Reid was going to happen, there were several good Head Coach options out there. Going in-house with promoting Matt Nagy would've been my top choice. Nagy proved he could successfully call plays run a good offense. Nagy's relationship to Brett Veach would be beneficial too, creating a more tight knit Front Office. Dave Toub would clearly be another good candidate too. I just feel that John Dorsey/Matt Nagy would be far superior than Andy Reid/Brett Veach. Infact, in a perfect world I'd actually prefer Matt Nagy/Brett Veach because of their long-term friendship dating back to when they played together in college.(Nagy/QB & Veach/WR)

Are you bipolar or something. You spent two years saying how overrated Dorsey was and then how happy you were when he was fired and now this. Almost weird.

[reesebobby 5,663]

Here are the 9 best draft picks of the last 5 years of Carl Peterson in my opinion, the same number of drafts Dorsey had. See how Dorsey's list compares to Peterson who I view as a decent but not great drafter.

 

Derrick Johnson

Tamba Hali

Jamaal Charles

Brandon Flowers

Dwayne Bowe

Brandon Albert

Brandon Carr

Jared Allen

Dustin Colquitt

[SEMO 6,812]

Good catch. And he's played like a first or second round pick. I don't think you can say he's remarkable for where he was drafted.

I think he is a beast and the sky is the ceiling. If he would have stayed in school one more year, he would have been a top five pick.

 

Plus, he is hilarious.

[reesebobby 5,663]

I like him too.

[Mloe68 1,521]

I think he is a beast and the sky is the ceiling. If he would have stayed in school one more year, he would have been a top five pick.

 

Plus, he is hilarious.

He regressed this year as did most of the d-line. When he finally started playing well in December it made a big difference in our overall defense. Likewise the Titans got little done with him in the game. After he went down though the totally exploited it and ran wild.