DefensiveMan 758 Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 If the goal is to get younger this off-season then expect major overhauls on the defensive side of the ball. http://www.kansascity.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/sam-mellinger/article199413044.html What is your gut feeling now that Sutton has been kept? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DefensiveMan 758 Posted February 10, 2018 Author Share Posted February 10, 2018 Honestly, my immediate emotional reaction (and many other Chiefs fans) was to fire Sutton. He was the quick and easy scapegoat what with three woeful playoff breakdowns. Looking back at this a month later my mindset has changed. Brett Veach, is making a strong effort to instill youth and speed into this up and coming season. With Revis being an initial cap casualty others might be on the cusp. One might wonder what an off-season overhaul and more youthfull talent could provide with a healthy Berry & Ford back alongside a top tier corner in Fuller. The Chiefs are showing promise and there is a plan involved. I'm curious to see what takes place. I think the draft will tell a lot as well - Veach is doing a nice job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SEMO 6,812 Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 Some was Sutton’s fault. Mostly, it was the players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mloe68 1,521 Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 Some was Sutton’s fault. Mostly, it was the players. I agree fully with this. Suttton seems limited in his feel for making useful adjustments to his schemes. But with the right players those schemes work really well. So dump all this dead weight regressing veterans and get some guys who can make the scheme work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liquidfriend 1,151 Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 The fact they haven't fired Sutton is astonishing. Even if the collapse wasn't on him (he had a part), I don't think you want to build a vision of a guy that's close to 70. Give him a senior role and get some new blood in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dablueguy 0 Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 More on the players, because Sutton needs a good pass rush for his scheme to work well, and he had none. His best pass rusher isn't a big pass rush threat anymore, his second best had back issues, and there really isn't much else. They NEED a pass rush next year. From someone other than Chris Jones. Either from Ford, Dadi, K Pass, a drafted player or Free Agent, but one or more of them, or else Mahomes will have to win lots of games on his own. But I would have liked to see Sutton go, as part of the staff getting younger, and hopefully more aggressive. Sutton doesn't send the house nearly often enough for my taste. Hopefully Gibbs being gone will help the aggressiveness pick up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moons314 2,463 Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 it's been on the players for 2 years now, but that's more of a reflection of the front office than the players. Bad contracts, keeping older guys that were well past their prime all contributed. Add to that key injuries and you're left with a defense that has a high ratio of older guys who lost a step and special teams players playing prominent roles in defensive subsets. The roster needs turnover, turnover away from guys that are too old or can't stay healthy. Dee Ford is out after this year. DJ and Hali should be gone now. If Berry lands on the IR in 18 you start looking for ways to move on from him. Players who lack availability are no better than the over the hill guys who aren't getting the job done. This defense had too many players at key positions that were too old or often injured. Until that changes, you're asking a coach to be a one legged man in an ass kicking contest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sith13 1,746 Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 Reid and his scared as $hit style on both sides of the ball. We suffered a lot of injuries but even with backups the group has at least shown some life when the mentality allowed it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer 8,689 Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 kinda interested that injuries was not included in pole Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legend of AC 269 Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 Defense needs an influx of young talent. It’s great we have some of this already with guys like Peters, Fuller, Ragland, Jones, etc., but it hasn’t been enough. I want another impact Safety to pair with Berry, and we need passrushing help badly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mloe68 1,521 Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 it's been on the players for 2 years now, but that's more of a reflection of the front office than the players. Bad contracts, keeping older guys that were well past their prime all contributed. Add to that key injuries and you're left with a defense that has a high ratio of older guys who lost a step and special teams players playing prominent roles in defensive subsets. The roster needs turnover, turnover away from guys that are too old or can't stay healthy. Dee Ford is out after this year. DJ and Hali should be gone now. If Berry lands on the IR in 18 you start looking for ways to move on from him. Players who lack availability are no better than the over the hill guys who aren't getting the job done. This defense had too many players at key positions that were too old or often injured. Until that changes, you're asking a coach to be a one legged man in an ass kicking contest. Great post. People are scapegoating the real issue by placing to much blame on a scheme which worked well when there was talent there to run it. This defense really lacks a middle class. You have the rich guys and the poor special teams types forced into playing by bad cap management, drafting issues at cornerback and injury plagued Stars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mloe68 1,521 Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 More on the players, because Sutton needs a good pass rush for his scheme to work well, and he had none. His best pass rusher isn't a big pass rush threat anymore, his second best had back issues, and there really isn't much else. They NEED a pass rush next year. From someone other than Chris Jones. Either from Ford, Dadi, K Pass, a drafted player or Free Agent, but one or more of them, or else Mahomes will have to win lots of games on his own. But I would have liked to see Sutton go, as part of the staff getting younger, and hopefully more aggressive. Sutton doesn't send the house nearly often enough for my taste. Hopefully Gibbs being gone will help the aggressiveness pick up. Yep. There’s the obvious drop off from our OLBs in the pass rush. But less noticeable is fact our dline generated 14 sacks in both 2014 and 2015. That number dropped to 6.5 and 9.5 the last two years even with emergence of Jones. Veach needs to add depth to our dline that can help here. I think KPass should hell but we need more. Sutton’s schemes rely on press man pressure from the corners and a pass rush. We can be mediocre vs run just not awful. We weren’t awful vs run the last few months and in playoff game until Jones got hurt. But we didn’t have corners who could play press coverage and had very little pass rush. This meant a lot of sitting back in a pedestrian type mode on defense so we didn’t get burned as we did vs Raiders in Oakland. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DefensiveMan 758 Posted February 10, 2018 Author Share Posted February 10, 2018 kinda interested that injuries was not included in pole I added it in now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomahawkChop 255 Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 I would like two votes. Or split my one vote 60/40 between Sutton and talent. I saw our best pass rusher dropping into coverage far too often to put all the blame on the players. I agree with most that have posted - the Chiefs need much more from the pass rush in 2018. Pressure makes everyone "more talented" - players and coaches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WichitaZRide 321 Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 I don’t know if this is ultimately on reid or Sutton, or neither, but I would like to place a large amount of blame on position coaches. It’s absolutely insane how many promising corners and safeties we have drafted and signed as UDFAs in the last three years that are not developing and in many cases regressing. The same goes for the Dline...we see these guys show promise, then they fall off the map. I’ve watched Dee Ford do the exact same thing for four seasons now....quick off the snap, thinks he can take the long way around to tackle, then still end up 10 feet from the qb when the ball is thrown. It’s like nobody has done anything to improve his technique and he’s no better off than when we drafted him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiefsfan1963 1,101 Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 Execution is on the backs of the players. You can have a great plan but if the players can't tackle, defend, pass rush etc that is on the players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calichief 3,016 Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 Execution is on the backs of the players. You can have a great plan but if the players can't tackle, defend, pass rush etc that is on the players.What if the plan sucks too?Like Dan Sorensen in the box. That’s stupid horrible planning. Or running zombo out there constantly. Or continuing to throw Phillip Gaines in the lineup. It’s a little of both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palangi 788 Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 What if the plan sucks too? Like Dan Sorensen in the box. That’s stupid horrible planning. Or running zombo out there constantly. Or continuing to throw Phillip Gaines in the lineup. It’s a little of both. or dropping your best pass rusher into coverage so Zombo can rush the passer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiefsfan1963 1,101 Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 What if the plan sucks too? Like Dan Sorensen in the box. That’s stupid horrible planning. Or running zombo out there constantly. Or continuing to throw Phillip Gaines in the lineup. It’s a little of both. If the plan sucks also it doesn't make up for not tackling, not defending and not putting pressure on the opposing QB. Tackling is not a scheme thing. DBs staying with their receivers and not committing PI 50% of the time is not a plan thing. Manhandling your opponent and getting to the QB is not a scheme or plan thing. DT, LT and many others were free to do what they wanted because they had the skills to do it. Others, those who don't have a high skill set need gimmicks, tricks or plans to help them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liquidfriend 1,151 Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 Execution is on the backs of the players. You can have a great plan but if the players can't tackle, defend, pass rush etc that is on the players. Well yes, but at a certain point you have to just know your players won't be capable of executing it and you need to do something different. Bob Sutton has to know that a right side overload with your key defender on the left side of the line being Frank Zombo is a literal disaster waiting to happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mloe68 1,521 Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 If the plan sucks also it doesn't make up for not tackling, not defending and not putting pressure on the opposing QB. Tackling is not a scheme thing. DBs staying with their receivers and not committing PI 50% of the time is not a plan thing. Manhandling your opponent and getting to the QB is not a scheme or plan thing. DT, LT and many others were free to do what they wanted because they had the skills to do it. Others, those who don't have a high skill set need gimmicks, tricks or plans to help them. I think your on to something here though. The CBA allows so little tackling that you better draft guys who have proven themselves to know how when they enter the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiefsFoolFan 149 Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 More on the players, because Sutton needs a good pass rush for his scheme to work well, and he had none. His best pass rusher isn't a big pass rush threat anymore, his second best had back issues, and there really isn't much else. They NEED a pass rush next year. From someone other than Chris Jones. Either from Ford, Dadi, K Pass, a drafted player or Free Agent, but one or more of them, or else Mahomes will have to win lots of games on his own. But I would have liked to see Sutton go, as part of the staff getting younger, and hopefully more aggressive. Sutton doesn't send the house nearly often enough for my taste. Hopefully Gibbs being gone will help the aggressiveness pick up. What if the plan sucks too? Like Dan Sorensen in the box. That’s stupid horrible planning. Or running zombo out there constantly. Or continuing to throw Phillip Gaines in the lineup. It’s a little of both. I agree with both of your posts.... yeah, the players underperformed. However, we should hardly ever have Houston out in coverage. Nor should we be running dime on 1st & 10. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiefsfan1963 1,101 Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 I think your on to something here though. The CBA allows so little tackling that you better draft guys who have proven themselves to know how when they enter the league.I believe that the lack of actual contact in practice along with the NFL handcuffing defenses has hurt the sport and it makes drafting players from good defenses in college a must. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reesebobby 5,663 Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 When the eagles really needed a sack, they moved Brandon Graham inside. I can't see Sutton ever making those kinds of bold moves. Unless you call the Sorensen thing bold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palangi 788 Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 When the eagles really needed a sack, they moved Brandon Graham inside. I can't see Sutton ever making those kinds of bold moves. Unless you call the Sorensen thing bold. I never understood why tamba didn't did this or even kpass this past year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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