Dablueguy 0 Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 He had a bad foot injury early last season and ended up missing 9 games. He was very good in 2016. This is a good low risk deal. The Chiefs are not paying him anything unless he plays great this year, in which case he will be worth every bit of the $6 million he would have earned. Have you seen the contract details? Could you link it? If they are truly paying him nothing(meaning no guaranteed money), then I agree with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonder 47 Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 Have you seen the contract details? Could you link it? If they are truly paying him nothing(meaning no guaranteed money), then I agree with you. It’s a 1 year incentive laden contract. 99% of the time in those deals that’s where the money is, which is why gauranteed money is usually not part of those deals. If he makes his incentive goals in the contract, he’ll make $6 million. If that happens, it would mean he will have been a damn good CB for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iluvhouse24 1,808 Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 Doesn't seem like a move that a team with designs on not competing would make. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dablueguy 0 Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 It’s a 1 year incentive laden contract. 99% of the time in those deals that’s where the money is, which is why gauranteed money is usually not part of those deals. If he makes his incentive goals in the contract, he’ll make $6 million. If that happens, it would mean he will have been a damn good CB for us. What if he's 2014 Amerson, sucks, and is cut, and/or 2017 Acker, a 5th/6th CB? Do we owe him nothing if he's cut before game 1? How about after game 1? Those details will make me like, or not like this deal. I hope the bolded is right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonder 47 Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 He makes $2.25 million base. The $3.75 million will be purely incentives. Usually it is based on... -health. Number of games played to reach incentive. -stats. Certain number of stats to pay incentive. -playoff participant. If team makes playoff with him starting there’s another incentive. That’s usually how it goes. Jamaal Charles signed this deal with Denver last year. That’s why Elway benched him most of the 2nd half of the season...so he wouldn’t have to pay him for meeting the incentive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DefensiveMan 758 Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 https://youtu.be/1UXng6Zt-R4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mloe68 1,521 Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 Before he got hurt, he was a great young CB, with tons of upside. Things change. I don't know for sure, but someone on the Oakland Board said Amerson was the worst rated CB in the NFL in 2017. He was close to that for Wash in 2014. If Oakland signed Gaines, homers on their message boards could rightfully say Gaines has upside. I understand homers want to only look at the good of a player that they acquire. And the bad of the players they lose. I strive to be be better than that. Gaines flashed ability to cover his rookie season but regressed every year since and was one of the worst corners in the NFL the last two years. Even at his best he’s got zero ball skills. He and Acker both are just wasted roster space. . Most importantly Amerson is much bigger than Mitchell and we can actually play the press style again that Sutton likes. Adds up to a good fit at a value short term price for a pretty young guy with legit upside that yes has also been flat bad in the wrong role or playing hurt. And my biggest concern here is that he had nagging foot injury last season. That and the dreaded turf toe can sometimes equal lasting problems. I’d suggest the the Veach plan would not be to draft another big corner and groom him for a season. But now if our guy doesn’t fall we don’t have to reach for an instant contributor type. We haven’t even hit free agency yet and Veach has already added significant potential for improvement in this secondary. And so far we haven’t even broached the comp pick formula agsidnt us either although I do expect a few signings to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mloe68 1,521 Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 Doesn't seem like a move that a team with designs on not competing would make. My exact first thought as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DefensiveMan 758 Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 Gaines flashed ability to cover his rookie season but regressed every year since and was one of the worst corners in the NFL the last two years. Even at his best he’s got zero ball skills. He and Acker both are just wasted roster space. . Most importantly Amerson is much bigger than Mitchell and we can actually play the press style again that Sutton likes. Adds up to a good fit at a value short term price for a pretty young guy with legit upside that yes has also been flat bad in the wrong role or playing hurt. I’d suggest the the Veach plan would not be to draft another big corner and groom him for a season. We haven’t even hit free agency yet and Veach has already added significant potential for improvement in this secondary. And so far we haven’t even broached the comp pick formula agsidnt us either although I do expect a few signings to do so. Veach is new blood for this thirsty franchise. The days of King Carl, Pioli, and Dorsey are gone folks. No rebuilding folks. Open AFC , QB with All World potential on a rookie contract, and one of the best QB Coaches in the history of the NFL. Future is bright don't expect a letdown next season. 12-4 at worst. Veach is not f'n around. We just need to patch up the pieces bc we finally have a QB who doesn't need a perfect roster... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SEMO 6,812 Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 I liked Amerson coming out of NC State. A lot of the scouting reports had him as a safety in the NFL. His time in Washington playing corner seemed to prove that out. I was surprised he did such a 180 in Oakland. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palangi 788 Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 I know this is an Amerson thread. But a guy that gets ignored is Ashton Lampkin. He tore his knee is preseason. But was getting reps with the 1st team before. With Anderson and fuller in I wonder if he could be looked at as a free safety. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lamardirts 2,114 Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 Love the signing. Addressing a huge area of need, and giving us the ability to hit FA and the draft a little more strategically. Not sure what all the fuss about a one year 2.25 million dollar signing is about. If he plays well he makes more and we get a legit player, if not we only lost 2.25 million. He flashed for 2 years and got injured in his 3rd. I also like the signing because it appears Veach is trying to get Sutton all the pieces he needs so if he struggles this year we do it in Mahomes first season and we force Reid/Hunt's hand on Sutton. I think there is a very strategic plan in place at One Arrowhead drive. Remove excuses for staff on the hot seat, add enough talent that if Pat can step in and come close to replacing Alex in his first season we have a legit chance of making waves in the playoffs, and if things fall apart we are still young, Mahomes gets experience and we can hopefully replace the issues amongst the staff/personnel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dablueguy 0 Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 Verified: Austin Gayle @AustinGayle_PFFFollowFollow @AustinGayle_PFF More Among CBs with at least 160 coverage snaps in 2017, #Raiders CB David Amerson ranked dead last in passer rating allowed (156.3) and yards allowed per coverage snap (2.22). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dablueguy 0 Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 Doesn't seem like a move that a team with designs on not competing would make. When did the narrative become that we don't have designs on competing next year? I must have missed that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iluvhouse24 1,808 Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 Verified: Austin Gayle @AustinGayle_PFFFollowFollow @AustinGayle_PFF More Among CBs with at least 160 coverage snaps in 2017, #Raiders CB David Amerson ranked dead last in passer rating allowed (156.3) and yards allowed per coverage snap (2.22). 2015 Verified: WINNER David Amerson, CB, Oakland Raiders Amerson was the Redskins’ second-round pick in 2013, and saw the field in every game during his rookie season. He struggled with consistency throughout the year, and finished with a relatively low coverage grade, which placed him 92nd out of 110 cornerbacks. Last season his coverage grade dropped even further, and he slid all the way down to 106th at his position. Amerson was released after Week 1 this season, and was subsequently picked up by the Raiders, where he’s been a completely different player ever since. The former NC State standout posted a positive production grade in 2015, despite being targeted 104 times (sixth-most among NFL CBs). On those targets, he allowed just 58 completions and one touchdown. He tied for fifth overall with 13 passes defensed, and also picked off four passes. Last season, he allowed more completions (61) on fewer targets (91), and an NFL-high 10 touchdowns when targeted. Quarterbacks had a 140.2 rating when targeting Amerson in 2014; this season, that number has dropped to 62.7. His improvements have brought him up to an 83.4 overall grade, good for 15th out of all cornerbacks this season. 2016 Verified: 13. DAVID AMERSON, OAKLAND RAIDERS, 83.5 Like his teammate, David Amerson has made plays, but has also given up some this season. He has already allowed four touchdowns, having surrendered just one as a Raider all of last season, and two overall (one for Washington before he was cut). Amerson has countered those plays with 10 pass breakups and a pair of interceptions, and been an active player at the catch point, forcing some tough catches from receivers. Keep fishing Blue. I'm sure you can find some more things to dislike about the guy Veach signed instead of Dorsey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dablueguy 0 Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 Love the signing. Addressing a huge area of need, and giving us the ability to hit FA and the draft a little more strategically. Not sure what all the fuss about a one year 2.25 million dollar signing is about. If he plays well he makes more and we get a legit player, if not we only lost 2.25 million. He flashed for 2 years and got injured in his 3rd. I also like the signing because it appears Veach is trying to get Sutton all the pieces he needs so if he struggles this year we do it in Mahomes first season and we force Reid/Hunt's hand on Sutton. I think there is a very strategic plan in place at One Arrowhead drive. Remove excuses for staff on the hot seat, add enough talent that if Pat can step in and come close to replacing Alex in his first season we have a legit chance of making waves in the playoffs, and if things fall apart we are still young, Mahomes gets experience and we can hopefully replace the issues amongst the staff/personnel. Signing the worst CB in the NFL in 2017 to a 2.25 million dollar downside guarantee contract doesn't seem like such a good deal to me. Vet minimum downside guarantee would seem more fitting. If we signed guys who were better in 2017, Gaines, or Mitchell, or Acker, to that contract, I doubt too many Chief fans would think it's a good deal. He's now our highest paid CB. That's absurd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iluvhouse24 1,808 Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 When did the narrative become that we don't have designs on competing next year? I must have missed that. There was a thread posted a couple days ago about whether or not we could really hope to compete next year with Mahomes in his first year starting. I guess you did miss it. Probably busy texting back and forth with your uncle John Dorsey. http://chiefscoalition.invisionzone.com/index.php?/topic/8079-can-we-still-progress-next-season-with-a-youthful-side/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dablueguy 0 Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 2015 Verified: WINNER David Amerson, CB, Oakland Raiders Amerson was the Redskins’ second-round pick in 2013, and saw the field in every game during his rookie season. He struggled with consistency throughout the year, and finished with a relatively low coverage grade, which placed him 92nd out of 110 cornerbacks. Last season his coverage grade dropped even further, and he slid all the way down to 106th at his position. Amerson was released after Week 1 this season, and was subsequently picked up by the Raiders, where he’s been a completely different player ever since. The former NC State standout posted a positive production grade in 2015, despite being targeted 104 times (sixth-most among NFL CBs). On those targets, he allowed just 58 completions and one touchdown. He tied for fifth overall with 13 passes defensed, and also picked off four passes. Last season, he allowed more completions (61) on fewer targets (91), and an NFL-high 10 touchdowns when targeted. Quarterbacks had a 140.2 rating when targeting Amerson in 2014; this season, that number has dropped to 62.7. His improvements have brought him up to an 83.4 overall grade, good for 15th out of all cornerbacks this season. 2016 Verified: 13. DAVID AMERSON, OAKLAND RAIDERS, 83.5 Like his teammate, David Amerson has made plays, but has also given up some this season. He has already allowed four touchdowns, having surrendered just one as a Raider all of last season, and two overall (one for Washington before he was cut). Amerson has countered those plays with 10 pass breakups and a pair of interceptions, and been an active player at the catch point, forcing some tough catches from receivers. Keep fishing Blue. I'm sure you can find some more things to dislike about the guy Veach signed instead of Dorsey. 2017 came after 2015 and 2016, in case you lost your math skills. Nothing to fish for, when Facts are presented. If Dorsey signed this guy to this contract, I'd have the same exact complaints, apprehensions, and hopes. Like I did when Dorsey signed Soerensen to his. Or Fanaika to his, etc. But you keep fishing to try and portray me as being 100% Pro Dorsey, and 100% anti Veach. It's pretty funny, and unbecoming of someone who has complimented my objectivity in the past. My objectivity hasn't changed, and never will. So what has? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dablueguy 0 Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 There was a thread posted a couple days ago about whether or not we could really hope to compete next year with Mahomes in his first year starting. I guess you did miss it. Probably busy texting back and forth with your uncle John Dorsey. http://chiefscoalition.invisionzone.com/index.php?/topic/8079-can-we-still-progress-next-season-with-a-youthful-side/ Oh, I saw that thread. Wasn't worth commenting in, because it's absurd to think the defending AFC West Champion Chiefs, with a potential huge upgrade at the most important position on the field, aren't trying to compete in 2018. I thought you were referring to something Official from the Chiefs that 2018 is a rebuilding year or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iluvhouse24 1,808 Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 2017 came after 2015 and 2016, in case you lost your math skills. Nothing to fish for, when Facts are presented. If Dorsey signed this guy to this contract, I'd have the same exact complaints, apprehensions, and hopes. Like I did when Dorsey signed Soerensen to his. Or Fanaika to his, etc. But you keep fishing to try and portray me as being 100% Pro Dorsey, and 100% anti Veach. It's pretty funny, and unbecoming of someone who has complimented my objectivity in the past. My objectivity hasn't changed, and never will. So what has? I complemented your objectivity when it comes to Smith. I think you are equally unobjective when it comes to our former GM and current one. The moves you've been so hard on Veach for have cost us very very little cap wise. And now again you are thinking Veach has paid too much for a guy he got for pretty cheap considering the postion. His base salary would put him somewhere around 20th on our team as far as cap numbers and you think it's absurd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dablueguy 0 Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 I complemented your objectivity when it comes to Smith. I think you are equally unobjective when it comes to our former GM and current one. The moves you've been so hard on Veach for have cost us very very little cap wise. And now again you are thinking Veach has paid too much for a guy he got for pretty cheap considering the postion. His base salary would put him somewhere around 20th on our team as far as cap numbers and you think it's absurd. So I'm "objective" when you happen to agree with me, and "unobjective" when you happen to disagree with me. Got it. Was I unobjective when I slammed Dorsey for the Fanaika contract? Was I objective when I complimented Veach for the Ragaland trade, or the Erving Trade, or the Alex Trade, or the Butker pick up? It's not my objectivity that ever changes. I Call them as I see them, always. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mloe68 1,521 Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 Signing the worst CB in the NFL in 2017 to a 2.25 million dollar downside guarantee contract doesn't seem like such a good deal to me. Vet minimum downside guarantee would seem more fitting. If we signed guys who were better in 2017, Gaines, or Mitchell, or Acker, to that contract, I doubt too many Chief fans would think it's a good deal. He's now our highest paid CB. That's absurd. He was hurt last season and only played in 6 games. The two previous years he graded out as what would have been our second best corner (Top twenty in the NFL) and he’s got size we’ve been missing since 2015. He’s young, has clear upside and fits our system all for 2.3 million plus incentives. Absurd to not see value here. Veach is putting on a clinic. Just sit back and enjoy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dksww 484 Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 Looks like a move for depth, I doubt he is being a penciled in starter. Competition is always good. They'll bring in another CB in FA or the draft Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dablueguy 0 Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 He was hurt last season and only played in 6 games. The two previous years he graded out as what would have been our second best corner (Top twenty in the NFL) and he’s got size we’ve been missing since 2015. He’s young, has clear upside and fits our system all for 2.3 million plus incentives. Absurd to not see value here. Veach is putting on a clinic. Just sit back and enjoy. I see value, but I also see the downside, as Amerson has provided both in ample amounts. As I've said, if the minimum contract was more in line with the downside, I'd be all for it. It's not. It's too high, so I'm on the fence. If the good Amerson shows up, it's a great signing. If the bad Amerson shows up, it's a horrible waste of over 2 million in cap space, not to mention who he might play over, simply to justify the contract, like Revis, and/or who might not be signed and/or resigned because he was. Unfortunately Veach's clinic includes Revis, Miller, and Mauga, so I'll continue to enjoy the good stuff, and criticize the bad stuff. Hopefully Amerson earns every last incentive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mloe68 1,521 Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 I see value, but I also see the downside, as Amerson has provided both in ample amounts. As I've said, if the minimum contract was more in line with the downside, I'd be all for it. It's not. It's too high, so I'm on the fence. If the good Amerson shows up, it's a great signing. If the bad Amerson shows up, it's a horrible waste of over 2 million in cap space, not to mention who he might play over, simply to justify the contract, like Revis, and/or who might not be signed and/or resigned because he was. Unfortunately Veach's clinic includes Revis, Miller, and Mauga, so I'll continue to enjoy the good stuff, and criticize the bad stuff. Hopefully Amerson earns every last incentive. Whenever you sign or trade for a player that has clear potential to outperform what was given up, it’s a good value. They won’t all work out I really doubt Erving will. But it doesn’t make it not worth risking. Meanwhile the Raiders gave this guy a 17.5 million dollar guarantee only two years ago. If he’s heakthy. Good chance this guy can help us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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