810am Jeff Chedhia from Espn podcast

[ChiefsFoolFan 149]

Then you adjust...putting Houston in coverage, rushing only 2 linemen, and playing our CB soft is not a solution in any scheme. Sutton isn't creative and we will see it once again.

This is exactly what Sutton did in 2017 too.

[DieHard 2,061]

Anyone have any evidence that Houston was dropping into coverage on most plays? I think that is a myth that people can’t let go of. Wasn’t it 26% of the time per PFF. That is just about right. Houston is maybe the best coverage LB in the league. To not use him at all in coverage seems questionable.

 

We can blame Sutton all we want, but the truth is we had a lack of talent.

 

Please post those drop in coverage numbers.

[oldtimer 8,691]

Anyone have any evidence that Houston was dropping into coverage on most plays? I think that is a myth that people can’t let go of. Wasn’t it 26% of the time per PFF. That is just about right. Houston is maybe the best coverage LB in the league. To not use him at all in coverage seems questionable.

 

We can blame Sutton all we want, but the truth is we had a lack of talent.

 

Please post those drop in coverage numbers.

 

 

 you have a point I seem to remember a stat on here that said something to that effect..maybe his dropping back just sticks in our memory because when he was dropped there was no other rush  and equated into a first down or other big play? but that does equate into a lack of talent as well.. for Houston to be great there needs to be another solid player on the other side  would DT been a HOFr without Neil Smith on the other side? hard to say.

[liquidfriend 1,151]

Anyone have any evidence that Houston was dropping into coverage on most plays? I think that is a myth that people can’t let go of. Wasn’t it 26% of the time per PFF. That is just about right. Houston is maybe the best coverage LB in the league. To not use him at all in coverage seems questionable.

We can blame Sutton all we want, but the truth is we had a lack of talent.

Please post those drop in coverage numbers.

Nobody said he was covering 75-100% of the time.

 

Once you add in that he was basically playing as a 2-gapping DL, because run D blew, he wasn't pure rushing on a lot of snaps.

[DieHard 2,061]

I think his biggest issues were Zombo and the D line. Plus I don’t think he trusted that knee completely. I think he rushed about the same when he had 22 sacks.

 

He will get more sacks this year.

[Iluvhouse24 1,808]

Nobody said he was covering 75-100% of the time.

Once you add in that he was basically playing as a 2-gapping DL, because run D blew, he wasn't pure rushing on a lot of snaps.

This is correct. It wasnt the number of snaps he spent in coverage that was high. It was the percentage of snaps he actually rushed the qb on that was low. You pay the guy 22 million dollars...let him eat.

[Calichief 3,017]

This is correct. It wasnt the number of snaps he spent in coverage that was high. It was the percentage of snaps he actually rushed the qb on that was low. You pay the guy 22 million dollars...let him eat.

Also, it was the time and place... covering guys at the end of the game... Antonio brown for example.. when he should have been eating

[DieHard 2,061]

The Antonio Brown play was a bust by Berry. That wasn’t last year though. He rushed the passer 74% of passing downs if PFF is correct.

 

That seems about right.

[DieHard 2,061]

Berry jumped an underneath crossing route when Brown lined up in the slot with no CB to cover him. Heads up play by Houston who should have had a safety back their.

[kkuenn 3,607]

Yes, the loss of Berry hurt, but Sutton’s usage of his personnel continued to be baffling. He had one of the NFL’s elite pass rushers, OLB Justin Houston, drop back in coverage a staggering 141 times and many of those times coming on crucial third-down situations.

 

https://chiefswire.usatoday.com/2018/01/18/chiefs-biggest-disappointments-of-2017/

[Mloe68 1,521]

You could run any halfassed scheme with top end rushers and corners.

And hence no scheme works with gaping holes all over it.

[Mloe68 1,521]

Yes, the loss of Berry hurt, but Sutton’s usage of his personnel continued to be baffling. He had one of the NFL’s elite pass rushers, OLB Justin Houston, drop back in coverage a staggering 141 times and many of those times coming on crucial third-down situations.

 

https://chiefswire.usatoday.com/2018/01/18/chiefs-biggest-disappointments-of-2017/

The Chiefs defense was better when he dropped into coverage than it was when he rushed the passer. It’s a product of having horrible corner play aside from Peters and no other pass rushers so they could roll away or just double team Houston. He’s good at a lot of things and was also our only LB capable of setting edge. He did drop too much. I’d agree with that. But Sutton’s hand was largely forced by injuries to Hali and Ford as well as lack of talent st corner and no Berry to clean up those messes. The Oakland game is where it really showed up. We were crushed when Justin wasn’t in coverage. Blitzes exposed horrible CB ball skills and it became clear to avoid giving up big plays Sutton had to adjust. And the defense was really solid that last month because of it in my opinion.

[sith13 1,746]

It all starts with Sutton (so Reid as well). The DC's job isn't to create a great scheme and have others fit the needs, his job is to find the best scheme that will work with the players he has. Sutton failed to adjust pretty much in his entire career in KC. If given a full squad that's not riddled with injuries I think he might be successful but I don't trust him when he needs to make any sort of adjustment. 

[Biggjliv4 1,292]

It all starts with Sutton (so Reid as well). The DC's job isn't to create a great scheme and have others fit the needs, his job is to find the best scheme that will work with the players he has. Sutton failed to adjust pretty much in his entire career in KC. If given a full squad that's not riddled with injuries I think he might be successful but I don't trust him when he needs to make any sort of adjustment.

Exactly! Injuries are part of the game and I don't think he's done anything to demonstrate he has the creativity to make the necessary adjustments for anything less than perfect scenarios. Hope I'm wrong as we get younger, but I don't see a positive future with Sutton as DC

[liquidfriend 1,151]

And hence no scheme works with gaping holes all over it.

A good gameplan can compensate for a lot, but yes sometimes you're just gonna get got

[DieHard 2,061]

Doesn't really hold water that Sutton was the reason Houston didn't have a lot of sacks. You know who was Houston's DC when he had 22 sacks? Sutton.

 

If Sutton is so incompetent, how did he manage to have such good seasons with us. And with Berry and Houston missing two complete seasons. The year before last he lost every starting D linemen plus Houston for most of the season and still have the #7 D against in points allowed.

 

2013 D was #5

2014 D was #2

2015 D was #3

2016 D was #7

2017 D was #15

 

And those were not stacked defenses.

 

Basically lost his best players (Berry 2 years, DJ 2 years, Houston 2 years). I don't really know what yall expect, but that is about as good as it gets with the personnel we had. Hell, last year that roster was bad. Bad. And somehow he managed to be middle of the pack.

[kkuenn 3,607]

Doesn't really hold water that Sutton was the reason Houston didn't have a lot of sacks. You know who was Houston's DC when he had 22 sacks? Sutton.

 

If Sutton is so incompetent, how did he manage to have such good seasons with us. And with Berry and Houston missing two complete seasons. The year before last he lost every starting D linemen plus Houston for most of the season and still have the #7 D against in points allowed.

 

2013 D was #5

2014 D was #2

2015 D was #3

2016 D was #7

2017 D was #15

 

And those were not stacked defenses.

 

Basically lost his best players (Berry 2 years, DJ 2 years, Houston 2 years). I don't really know what yall expect, but that is about as good as it gets with the personnel we had. Hell, last year that roster was bad. Bad. And somehow he managed to be middle of the pack.

Say what you want but he does not adjust. He has blown 2 of the worse losses in playoffs with his defense. The Indy game and last year with Tennessee. Injuries are part of the game. Sure we have been unlucky in some areas but this is why you develop those behind him on how to tackle, proper angles to take, what holes to fill etc. Injuries or not you don't go in dime defense like he did at times then to we it burnt etc. He is Just relying on his bend don't break b.s. that a team my only score 3 points on but they chew up the clock or when we need a big stop we can never get it.

[sith13 1,746]

Say what you want but he does not adjust. He has blown 2 of the worse losses in playoffs with his defense. The Indy game and last year with Tennessee. Injuries are part of the game, sure we have been unlucky in some areas but This is why you develop those behind him on how to tackle, proper angles to take, what holes to fill etc. Injuries or not you don't go in some defense like he did at times then to we it burnt etc. He is Just relying on his bend don't break b.s. that a team my only score 3 points on but they chew up the clock or when we need a big stop we can never get it.

 

Exactly, Sutton is successful when things are going as expected but doesn't seem to be able to adjust when something fails or someone is missing. 

[Mloe68 1,521]

Say what you want but he does not adjust. He has blown 2 of the worse losses in playoffs with his defense. The Indy game and last year with Tennessee. Injuries are part of the game, sure we have been unlucky in some areas but This is why you develop those behind him on how to tackle, proper angles to take, what holes to fill etc. Injuries or not you don't go in some defense like he did at times then to we it burnt etc. He is Just relying on his bend don't break b.s. that a team my only score 3 points on but they chew up the clock or when we need a big stop we can never get it.

That Indy game he made every adjustment in the book and none of them worked as our players dropped like flys. That last deep pass we were in a two deep zone and got beat right over the top of it when both safeties took horrible angles to the ball. That's not scheme. 

I do blame him in part for the Titans loss. Defense was lights out for a half but he indeed had no answer in the rush defense after we lost Chris Jones. Just like offense had no answer after losing Kelce. That was a team loss that I still contend a better QB would have won though. 

I'm not a big Sutton fan and would have preferred we rebuild defense around an emerging young defensive coordinator. But reality is that group he had last year had massive holes and I think Sutton actually did a pretty good job of making that unit formidable the last month of the season despite the talent void. 

I

[DieHard 2,061]

In years past he was pretty aggressive. But last year the wheels fell off. He is to blame for some of it but we were a mess at pass rush, safety and to some extent CB.

 

I think he can get back to where we were if we can cover and rush better. I do hate the 2 linemen sets with all those DBs on the field. If we could stop the pass in our base D he would stay in it more. He can call a good defensive game.

 

I look at the Raiders. They wrecked us one game and we contained them in the other. Was that radically different schemes? I don’t remember it being that different. And wasn’t Peters suspended the second game and we played a lot better?

 

I admit it is hard to completely let him off the hook, but when you get whipped 1 on 1, the player has to take some responsibility.

[Chiefsfan1963 1,101]

Say what you want but he does not adjust. He has blown 2 of the worse losses in playoffs with his defense. The Indy game and last year with Tennessee. Injuries are part of the game. Sure we have been unlucky in some areas but this is why you develop those behind him on how to tackle, proper angles to take, what holes to fill etc. Injuries or not you don't go in dime defense like he did at times then to we it burnt etc. He is Just relying on his bend don't break b.s. that a team my only score 3 points on but they chew up the clock or when we need a big stop we can never get it.

To be a devil's advocate, in both losses the Chiefs had crucial injuries that affected the game and in both there were some serious BS calls and bad bounces.

 

But true, he was the DC in those losses. I would say Atlanta's loss in the SB was worse though so not really the the worse two losses in the history of the NFL.

[kkuenn 3,607]

To be a devil's advocate, in both losses the Chiefs had crucial injuries that affected the game and in both there were some serious BS calls and bad bounces.

 

But true, he was the DC in those losses. I would say Atlanta's loss in the SB was worse though so not really the the worse two losses in the history of the NFL.

Never said NFL history but even then they are right up in the top 5, for sure the Indy loss and top 10 if not for the Tennessee loss. Both are our franchise worse imo. And b.s. calls or not, there is no need to blow those leads to lead up to the call a that can make or break a game.

[DieHard 2,061]

With the Tennessee game it didn't help that we couldn't score one damn point in the second half. Couldn't even stay on the field to eat up the clock. That was a team loss. 

 

Giving up 22 points in the playoffs is not a defensive collapse.

 

They forced 2 turnovers and had 2 more taken away by a bad call. One of which would have been a TD and a 14 point swing in the game. Houston played 97% of the snaps. Every big pass play (I think came when he was rushing). They didn't do as well when he dropped. Revis batted a pass back to the QB who ran it in for a touch. Butt Kicker missed a very makeable field goal. And we lost by one point.

 

How is that loss on Sutton?