Defense still work in progress. 8/16 Teicher article.

[Chiefswinitall 60]

http://www.espn.com/blog/kansas-city-chiefs/post/_/id/24822/changes-and-all-chiefs-defense-still-a-work-in-progress

 

Changes and all, Chiefs' defense still a work in progress

Offseason acquisition Kendall Fuller has played like a No. 1 cornerback in practice so far. Scott Winters/Icon Sportswire

7:00 AM CT

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  Adam TeicherESPN Staff Writer

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ST. JOSEPH, Mo. -- In talking about the Kansas City Chiefs and what has been a leaky run defense, linebacker Reggie Ragland recently issued a guarantee, the kind that usually comes from the optimism of training camp.

"We're going to stop that run," Ragland said. "We're going to stop it this year. Everybody has the right mindset. ... That line, that wall, is there. We've got the guys to do it. But at the end of the day, it's all about attitude when you want to stop the run. You've got to want to do that."

Having the right attitude about such a dirty job is a nice place to start, but eventually, it's going to take more than that for the Chiefs to be successful. With that goal in mind, the Chiefs turned over much of their defense in the hope of improving from 2017, when they often had problems -- whether the opponent was running or passing. The Chiefs were in the bottom 10 last season against the run and the pass and in total yards allowed.

This season, the Chiefs are counting heavily on several defenders who either weren't with them or weren't available because of injuries last year. New to the team are cornerback Kendall Fuller, who was acquired from Washington in the Alex Smith trade, and free-agent signings in linebacker Anthony Hitchens and nose tackle Xavier Williams. Safety Eric Berry and linebacker Dee Ford return after missing much of last season with injuries.

The Chiefs also drafted defensive players with their top five picks, and some are pushing for playing time.

"That's one thing we have our mind set to," Hitchens said of defensive improvement. "We're looking forward to that challenge."

Progress has been difficult to judge for the defense as a whole because so many key defenders have missed practice time or didn't play in the preseason opener because of injuries. The Chiefs played without four defensive starters last week against the Houston Texans, including Berry, Ragland and Hitchens.

The Chiefs looked much like they did last season. They allowed a 19-yard run on the game's second play, and the starters yielded a long touchdown drive against Houston's backup quarterback, Brandon Weeden.

 

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In practice, Fuller has looked like a No. 1 cornerback, and he broke up a pass in the game against the Texans. Williams has been disruptive at times against the run and was in on the tackle that stopped Houston running back Lamar Miller for no gain on a third-and-1 play. Hitchens has been limited at training camp because of a sore hamstring.

Three draft picks -- second-round outside linebacker Breeland Speaks, fourth-round safety Armani Watts and sixth-round cornerback Tremon Smith -- played the most against the Texans among the team's defensive players.

"It was a good test for all of them," defensive coordinator Bob Sutton said. "They all got in against the, quote, 'top guys.' What they've showed so far, I think they're in position to contribute. Over these next couple weeks in the games, we'll get a chance to see them, see how far they've come.

"They still have a long ways to go. Don't get me wrong. But I think they've shown enough that you'd say they have the aptitude [and] the talent to do this. Now, it's really whether they can drill down and get these techniques. The key is developing at this level is the consistency you have to have to be a major player from a starting standpoint or [get] major minutes out there. That to me is the biggest question going forward here."

Two third-round draft picks, lineman Derrick Nnadi and linebacker Dorian O'Daniel, didn't play against the Texans because of injuries but may get involved in Friday's preseason game against the Falcons in Atlanta.

Speaks won't be a starter because the Chiefs have veterans at his position in Ford and Justin Houston. But he will play, and the Chiefs hope Speaks can help improve a pass rush that last season was near the bottom of the league in sacks. The Chiefs have used him on occasion in the lineup, along with Houston and Ford.

Watts started at safety against Houston because of injuries to Berry and the other regular, Daniel Sorensen.

"He's a little bit hesitant on a couple things, but then he flew around on a couple things, so it was kind of an up and down ... performance," head coach Andy Reid said of how Watts played against the Texans. "There were some good things and then some things where he just needed to see it, so he can work on it. In college, he had great anticipation on plays. I think that now, that's just a matter of him being able to see a few things to do it.”

Smith at this early stage is beyond where a sixth-round draft pick from a smaller school might normally be. Smith played in college at Central Arkansas, but only because he was a late qualifier coming out of high school.

He said he otherwise would have played at Auburn, and he considers himself to be an SEC-caliber player.

"I've always knew I had that type of talent, but I just had to take a different route," he said.

Smith is the Chiefs' fourth cornerback, a position at which five of the top six players were lost from last season, including Marcus Peters.

"He was right in position to make plays," Reid said of Smith's play against the Texans. "He's another one that just needs to play. Coming from Central Arkansas, that's a different speed, but he has tremendous ability and really showed and was impressive in coverage stuff."

 

[moons314 2,463]

I'm still not too concerned about the defense.  I think our ILB's are going to be pretty good, and of course they didn't play in the first preseason game.  I still fully expect the defense to be in the top 10 in most defensive categories.  That said, I do also expect to be among the lower ranked teams in PYA, because our offense is going to score a lot of points, and on most nights I think opposing QBs are going to have 40+ attempts.  I think our defense will follow suit by stiffening inside the 20, and despite likely being ranked in the 20s in PYA, we should be top 10 in PA, Rushing yards allowed and 3rd down percentage.  Some might say my expectations are too high, I just say wait and see. 

[dksww 484]

F*ck Adam Teicher and the KC media.

Had the Chiefs pitched a shutout they'd be writing articles claiming how you can't take anything serious in pre-season and make a bunch of excuses for the Texans not playing starters or whatever.

 

[Mloe68 1,521]

This is absolutely a work in progress defense and we could easily have 3 picks in the Top 50 and some CAP room to really make a lot more progress next offseason. It's the big contracts for Berry and Houston that will also have to be evaluated though. Moving Peters may hurt short term but saved us a major headache. And even there Veach prepared for it by adding Fuller. But we need another legit corner, DE and S. We are living on the razors edge of acceptable depth there right now. 

[oldtimer 8,691]

5 minutes ago, Mloe68 said:

This is absolutely a work in progress defense and we could easily have 3 picks in the Top 50 and some CAP room to really make a lot more progress next offseason. It's the big contracts for Berry and Houston that will also have to be evaluated though. Moving Peters may hurt short term but saved us a major headache. And even there Veach prepared for it by adding Fuller. But we need another legit corner, DE and S. We are living on the razors edge of acceptable depth there right now. 

 

 I think we are stuck for  at least next year keeping Berry..IIRC Houston next year will be cutable I am sure

[Biggjliv4 1,292]

I don’t get all the Houston hate. They signed him after a 20+ sack season and after Von Miller signed if I recall. You all would have led a revolt had we let him walk. Not his fault his knee got jacked. He says it’s the first time he’s truly felt healthy, so hopefully he’s being honest and we get a phenomenal year out and of him. 

[kkuenn 3,607]

1 hour ago, Biggjliv4 said:

I don’t get all the Houston hate. They signed him after a 20+ sack season and after Von Miller signed if I recall. You all would have led a revolt had we let him walk. Not his fault his knee got jacked. He says it’s the first time he’s truly felt healthy, so hopefully he’s being honest and we get a phenomenal year out and of him. 

We will see. If he performs he stays. If not then he needs to restructure it be sent packing. He cant get injured yet again or be finally healthy and woefully under perform.

[Iluvhouse24 1,808]

3 hours ago, Mloe68 said:

This is absolutely a work in progress defense and we could easily have 3 picks in the Top 50 and some CAP room to really make a lot more progress next offseason. It's the big contracts for Berry and Houston that will also have to be evaluated though. Moving Peters may hurt short term but saved us a major headache. And even there Veach prepared for it by adding Fuller. But we need another legit corner, DE and S. We are living on the razors edge of acceptable depth there right now. 

You dont have any faith that Watts can turn into a good starter?

[Mloe68 1,521]

2 hours ago, Iluvhouse24 said:

You dont have any faith that Watts can turn into a good starter?

Its the combination of safeties that all have legit questions to answer that leaves me feeling like we have a long term need.

 

[Mloe68 1,521]

3 hours ago, Biggjliv4 said:

I don’t get all the Houston hate. They signed him after a 20+ sack season and after Von Miller signed if I recall. You all would have led a revolt had we let him walk. Not his fault his knee got jacked. He says it’s the first time he’s truly felt healthy, so hopefully he’s being honest and we get a phenomenal year out and of him. 

No hate here. He’s absolutely elite vs run and still a good pass rusher too.  He says he’s healthier than last year too as you say. He’s just got a gigantic contract. 

[Biggjliv4 1,292]

1 hour ago, Mloe68 said:

No hate here. He’s absolutely elite vs run and still a good pass rusher too.  He says he’s healthier than last year too as you say. He’s just got a gigantic contract. 

He does indeed...but so does JJ Watt, Von Miller, and every other elite player in their position. Fact was he was arguably the best OLB in the game at the time we extended him, you don't let guys like the walk away. We did what good teams who want to contend do...unfortunately he got hurt afterward & that sucks. Just get tired of people bitching about his contract...is what it is, players get hurt, but we did right at the time we signed him.

[dhitter 1,424]

5 hours ago, Biggjliv4 said:

I don’t get all the Houston hate. They signed him after a 20+ sack season and after Von Miller signed if I recall. You all would have led a revolt had we let him walk. Not his fault his knee got jacked. He says it’s the first time he’s truly felt healthy, so hopefully he’s being honest and we get a phenomenal year out and of him. 

Except Houston said he was 100% and ready to go at the beginning of last year. Was he lying? One thing is for sure...we will not see the 22 sack Justin Houston again regardless if he is fully healed or not.

[Mloe68 1,521]

45 minutes ago, Biggjliv4 said:

He does indeed...but so does JJ Watt, Von Miller, and every other elite player in their position. Fact was he was arguably the best OLB in the game at the time we extended him, you don't let guys like the walk away. We did what good teams who want to contend do...unfortunately he got hurt afterward & that sucks. Just get tired of people bitching about his contract...is what it is, players get hurt, but we did right at the time we signed him.

The point here isn’t to complain about his contract but rather look at whether he’s worth the 20 and 21 million he’s gonna be paid in 2019 and 2020.  Important because we can save 14 million vs CAP in 2019 and 19 million in 2020 by releasing him. It’s decision time next year for a 30 year old.  That’s all I’m saying. What he does this year will play a large role in that decision. 

[Fmbl2187 2,279]

8 hours ago, Mloe68 said:

This is absolutely a work in progress defense and we could easily have 3 picks in the Top 50 and some CAP room to really make a lot more progress next offseason.

Exactly.  This defense is going to require another draft.  This season should show us who is the wheat and who is the chaff.  One more draft could yield one or two successes in addition to the young guys we have now who will pan out.  With a powerful offense around a great QB, all we need is an above average defense to compete for championships.

[Iluvhouse24 1,808]

9 hours ago, Mloe68 said:

The point here isn’t to complain about his contract but rather look at whether he’s worth the 20 and 21 million he’s gonna be paid in 2019 and 2020.  Important because we can save 14 million vs CAP in 2019 and 19 million in 2020 by releasing him. It’s decision time next year for a 30 year old.  That’s all I’m saying. What he does this year will play a large role in that decision. 

And the development of Speaks and Tanoh at OLB, will also impact that decision. I'm not optimistic about either. I think they could both be impact players at DE, but for some reason the Chiefs seem to think they need to start some kind of new trend with a couple of 280 pound stand up edge rushers.

I can't see Ford being resigned without a 10-12 sack year, and maybe not even then. The guy is just abysmal against the run, as he showed again in the first pre-season game. With him and Bailey on the same side of the field I think we are likely to struggle on early down runs off  tackle. I would think that Kpass and Speaks could and should both develop into better run stoppers than Ford at OLB, but will either ever become his equal as a pass rusher? 

I hope I'm wrong, but I just feel like the Chiefs are trying to force something transitioning these guys to OLB. Point is we are gonna need a good all around DE, and help in the secondary and on the o-line this off-season. I hope we don't have to add another OLB to that list.

[Fmbl2187 2,279]

24 minutes ago, Iluvhouse24 said:

And the development of Speaks and Tanoh at OLB, will also impact that decision. I'm not optimistic about either. I think they could both be impact players at DE, but for some reason the Chiefs seem to think they need to start some kind of new trend with a couple of 280 pound stand up edge rushers.

I can't see Ford being resigned without a 10-12 sack year, and maybe not even then. The guy is just abysmal against the run, as he showed again in the first pre-season game. With him and Bailey on the same side of the field I think we are likely to struggle on early down runs off  tackle. I would think that Kpass and Speaks could and should both develop into better run stoppers than Ford at OLB, but will either ever become his equal as a pass rusher? 

I hope I'm wrong, but I just feel like the Chiefs are trying to force something transitioning these guys to OLB. Point is we are gonna need a good all around DE, and help in the secondary and on the o-line this off-season. I hope we don't have to add another OLB to that list.

You are probably right.  If they become good outside rushers but are that big, they probably won't be able to sustain it for long. Just trying to move that much weight at those speeds will wear them out.  I suppose though, that at that point,  they could always be moved to DE. 

 

[Sonder 47]

I really liked what I saw from Xavier Williams vs Houston. Really think Hitch will be good too.

Tanoh looked much improved too.

 

Defense will will hinge on 2 things IMO:

1. Berry/Houston/Jones staying healthy

2. One of these guys becomes a formidable pass rusher...Tanoh/Ford/Speaks 

[xen 1,010,220]

46 minutes ago, Sonder said:

I really liked what I saw from Xavier Williams vs Houston. Really think Hitch will be good too.

Tanoh looked much improved too.

 

Defense will will hinge on 2 things IMO:

1. Berry/Houston/Jones staying healthy

2. One of these guys becomes a formidable pass rusher...Tanoh/Ford/Speaks 

3.  Hitch and Rags stay healthy.  Our backup ILB's are not very good.  Would also really help if O'Dorian gets up to speed quickly, and turns out to be a good pro.

[DieHard 2,061]

11 hours ago, xen said:

3.  Hitch and Rags stay healthy.  Our backup ILB's are not very good.  Would also really help if O'Dorian gets up to speed quickly, and turns out to be a good pro.

Hitch and Rags are key. Absolutely.

[Biggjliv4 1,292]

14 hours ago, Iluvhouse24 said:

 

I hope I'm wrong, but I just feel like the Chiefs are trying to force something transitioning these guys to OLB. Point is we are gonna need a good all around DE, and help in the secondary and on the o-line this off-season. I hope we don't have to add another OLB to that list.

It seems we do this a lot, grab a guy and try to develop him into something else. I get you have to with OLB in the 3-4, but damn I'd like to see more guys selected for the position they played their college careers.

[liquidfriend 1,151]

With the system they're trying to put into place, they have to get bigger and more athletic raw guys and tey to mold them into stand up players.

They're trying to accomplish run stuffing with minimal bodies in sub packages and NCAA team just don't crank out Fairbanks types of outside backers.  What else are they gonna do?

[Iluvhouse24 1,808]

44 minutes ago, liquidfriend said:

With the system they're trying to put into place, they have to get bigger and more athletic raw guys and tey to mold them into stand up players.

They're trying to accomplish run stuffing with minimal bodies in sub packages and NCAA team just don't crank out Fairbanks types of outside backers.  What else are they gonna do?

The same thing that every other team that runs a 34 does. Draft an undersized 43 DE in the 250 to 260 lb range. Those guys that have the burst off the edge and the lateral mobility to play fast. 

Im not saying it cant work. Im saying there is a reason there are only a handful of standup edge guys that size in the league. And we have 2 of them.

They look out of place to me. If we ran a 43 with those guys playing DE and their hands in the dirt it would be different. Theyd have a completely different set of responsibilities. Again...I hope I am wrong. 

[Fmbl2187 2,279]

4 hours ago, Iluvhouse24 said:

The same thing that every other team that runs a 34 does. Draft an undersized 43 DE in the 250 to 260 lb range. Those guys that have the burst off the edge and the lateral mobility to play fast. 

Im not saying it cant work. Im saying there is a reason there are only a handful of standup edge guys that size in the league. And we have 2 of them.

They look out of place to me. If we ran a 43 with those guys playing DE and their hands in the dirt it would be different. Theyd have a completely different set of responsibilities. Again...I hope I am wrong. 

Of course you are wrong. Don't you get it?  Bob Sutton is a genius.  End of story.

[liquidfriend 1,151]

6 hours ago, Iluvhouse24 said:

The same thing that every other team that runs a 34 does. Draft an undersized 43 DE in the 250 to 260 lb range. Those guys that have the burst off the edge and the lateral mobility to play fast. 

Im not saying it cant work. Im saying there is a reason there are only a handful of standup edge guys that size in the league. And we have 2 of them.

They look out of place to me. If we ran a 43 with those guys playing DE and their hands in the dirt it would be different. Theyd have a completely different set of responsibilities. Again...I hope I am wrong. 

Close, but the more traditional edge guys are over 270 and tall.  They've gotten a bit shorter+faster to rely on pass-rushing over time, but the Chiefs are winding back the clock to stop the run better with less bodies committed to that goal.

Posters are freaking out that they're getting these guys that are too large to be standing up, but that's what they're aiming for.  Not saying the idea is fantastic or will work, but that seems to be the aim.