Sutton

[Chiefsfan1963 1,101]

Watching the game and there have been some shitty calls. Example, fumble return for a TD but called back for holding. Hmm the holding was never shown on TV, makes you wonder if it ever took place. Pittsburgh has traditionally been given calls that benefit them. With that TD how would have that affected the game.

[FANATIC 852]

Defense is not great yet we faced two of the best QBs in the NFL and won.   Hoping the young guys get better as the season plays out. SD and Pitts are two pretty good defenses. How do you think SD and Pitts felt about their defenses after playing KC?

[Chiefsfan1963 1,101]

1 minute ago, liquidfriend said:

At some point it has to be widely understood that while yes, Sutton doesn't have all the pieces he heeds.....he isn't the guy that you want putting it back together for you.  Rex Ryan demoted him for good reason when he took the NYJ job.

So, you're telling me he has quality players at every defensive position. If that's the case then why was there a thread about cutting many of these D players?

[FANATIC 852]

7 minutes ago, liquidfriend said:

Sutton can absolutely rush 4+ every down because rushing anything less than 4 is practically an automatic completion.  I have no idea where that theory is originating from.

The Defense just isn't prepared for the bizarro coverage shit he wants to run week in / week out and yeah the talent isn't there, but he needs to simplify his shit down if his players can't figure it out.  There are major coverage break downs every week and it's bad when you give up a huge clip to a low rate Tight End because Dee Ford (why is he not rushing again?) has no clue who he should be covering because there are 2 guys in his zone as the other coverage guy totally vanished.

The assistants are responsible for making sure individual positions handle their responsibilities and Sutton is responsible for overseeing it (woof) and making sure all his positions work seamlessly in unison and the right calls are being played.  The responsibility for this starts with Andy for not firing the schmuck, and rolls down hill from there with Sutton having awful concepts....Veach not getting the right players and the position guys not having their players ready to go.

The Chiefs just do not have 3 guys that can get reliable pressure and they traded off the corner that had the potential to lock down one side of the field.  This scheme is super confusing.

I think it is more desperate that confusing. Give SD and Pitt their credit. Both are very good offenses.

[liquidfriend 1,151]

4 minutes ago, Chiefsfan1963 said:

So, you're telling me he has quality players at every defensive position. If that's the case then why was there a thread about cutting many of these D players?

Are you incapable of reading?

[liquidfriend 1,151]

7 minutes ago, FANATIC said:

I think it is more desperate that confusing. Give SD and Pitt their credit. Both are very good offenses.

Honestly, I don't think the Steelers are that good of an Offense without DeCastro and Le'Veon Bell.  We're trying to run coverage slanted packages without guys that can cover.

AB didn't really have a great game by his own standards, either.

[Chiefsfan1963 1,101]

2 minutes ago, liquidfriend said:

Are you incapable of reading?

Capable of reading Professor Smartass, just missed doesn't. But it's understandable seeing that you are one of the boards negative nannies. 

[liquidfriend 1,151]

5 minutes ago, Chiefsfan1963 said:

Capable of reading Professor Smartass, just missed doesn't. But it's understandable seeing that you are one of the boards negative nannies. 

Your posts are always whiny shit about how everything isn't positive.  Exactly how positive should I be about a Defense that nearly lost a game where the MVP caliber QB had more TD's than incomplete passes deep into the 4th quarter?

[Marleydawg 60]

12 minutes ago, liquidfriend said:

Your posts are always whiny shit about how everything isn't positive.  Exactly how positive should I be about a Defense that nearly lost a game where the MVP caliber QB had more TD's than incomplete passes deep into the 4th quarter?

2-0 positive

[Chiefsfan1963 1,101]

18 minutes ago, liquidfriend said:

Your posts are always whiny shit about how everything isn't positive.  Exactly how positive should I be about a Defense that nearly lost a game where the MVP caliber QB had more TD's than incomplete passes deep into the 4th quarter?

I personally like being positive, it makes me a much better person, if you want to be negative go ahead. But I no longer will deal with Eeyore. Goodbye 

[Lamardirts 2,115]

56 minutes ago, wilkie said:

If Sutton could rush four and keep seven back he would do it. He has to do this exotic stuff because we do not have the talent on defense.   Like it or not you do the best you can with the players you have.

Exotic stuff?  He rushes 3 or 4 a majority of the time.   His exotic blitzs are so delayed that by the time our blitzer begins his blitz the qb is releasing the ball.   Only when we sent mulitple guys immediately did we have any success today.   People say its the DB's fault.  When everyone and their dog knows the DB's aren't good then why are we rushing 3 and hanging them out to dry?   Is adding a couple slow LB's and S's in the mix really going to slow down a prolific O with a seasoned HOF qb?   We don't have a Marty Ball, 17 ppg offense.   We should be taking risks and playing aggressive.    I thought that was the advantage of going up big early that it forces an opponent to become one dimensional?  

If Sutton could rush 4 and keep seven back he would do it......Thats exactly what he was doing and we were getting owned.    The point is get exotic with our rushers and play aggressive.  Overwhelm the Oline and make Ben make quick decisions and then tackle.   When we did that we got stops when we ran that 3-4 man rush we got owned.

Sure I blame individual players for mistakes but Sutton has had his voice in drafting and signing players since he's been here.  Who have we developed on the back end of our D outside of Ron Parker.............. That is freaking sad!    Our only good players are either good when drafted or good FA's.  There is no development.   Same with our OLB's.   As a matter of fact who has been developed under this D staff?   

And finally why does a staff keeping running scrubs out there when they make mistakes over and over (Murray) when there are younger guys who are capable of making those same mistakes and being in our long term plans.  Oh thats right, Bob doesn't like playing rookies much.   Sorry if this sounded like I was directing this at you wilkie.....it wasn't.  I was just responding initially to your comment. 

[Chiefswinitall 60]

Saw only portions of the game.   Was it the secondary?   Seems like we got some stops but a mixed bag.   Were they holding Justin again?

Arrowhead pride is just doing articles on Pat and nothing else which is stupid. 

[jetlord 10,210]

Summary of the defense:  Poor pass rush, poor coverage, poor scheme.  Good rush defense except that PIT didn't run.  A few stops were enough since the O scored six TDs.

[Lamardirts 2,115]

16 minutes ago, Chiefsfan1963 said:

I personally like being positive, it makes me a much better person, if you want to be negative go ahead. But I no longer will deal with Eeyore. Goodbye 

Exactly how does being positive make you a better person?   I can show you examples of being a sunshine pumper enables some pretty crappy things to happen because instead of dealing with crap thats not fun you merely gloss over it with positive vibes and good thoughts.   I understand if you want to look at the cup half fun and thats great, but saying your a better person that the one who calls it half full is pretty pompous.   

The defense sucks you can't argue it.   Sutton has a say who gets signed and drafted and he hasn't developed one Pro Bowl caliber players since being here and we have spent a butt load on that side of the ball.   Ill give him injuries to a degree but guys who have been in this system for years get worse over time not better.  So say we need better players to be better and I'll agree but then I'll ask you who had a big say in bringing in those current players who suck.......its the same guy you don't think deserves any blame.   

[Chiefsfan1963 1,101]

It depends, could they have played better, sure. But there were a lot of ticky tac penalties that took an end zone Int away, which eventually turned into a Pittsburgh TD.  A possible phantom interference call that negated a strip sack for a TD.

Then you had Ben, passed the line of scrimmage, throw a TD that shouldn't have been, same for Conner down at the End Zone but no End Zone camera view sow wasn't overturned.

Yes the D could have definitely tackled and defended better but they did enough to win. It won't happen every week though.

The fumble by Connelly at the end of the game made it closer than it should have been. 

[FANATIC 852]

Two Hall of Fame QBs make most defenses look bad. Yes this defense is below avg buy good enough for two wins.

[dksww 484]

Bob Sutton wouldn't bring more than a 4 man rush most of the game.  Big Perv just sat in the pocket for days and made completions.

I know the secondary is suspect, but you can't expect and DBs to cover guys for 5 seconds and that's what was happening today.

If we really are an offensive Juggernaut, then the Chiefs can take their time to figure out what works on defense and keep trying to improve.

Sky is the limit if this defense can turn it around.

The good news is we don't face another great QB until Brady in week 6.

[AppalachianChief 116]

2 minutes ago, Chiefsfan1963 said:

It depends, could they have played better, sure. But there were a lot of ticky tac penalties that took an end zone Int away, which eventually turned into a Pittsburgh TD.  A possible phantom interference call that negated a strip sack for a TD.

Then you had Ben, passed the line of scrimmage, throw a TD that shouldn't have been, same for Conner down at the End Zone but no End Zone camera view sow wasn't overturned.

Yes the D could have definitely tackled and defended better but they did enough to win. It won't happen every week though.

The fumble by Connelly at the end of the game made it closer than it should have been. 

And you my friend saw the game the exact same way I did. To many people rag on the defense! Are they great no, can the Chiefs win with this defense yes! They played better against the Steelers then they did against the Chargers!

[dksww 484]

3 minutes ago, FANATIC said:

Two Hall of Fame QBs make most defenses look bad. Yes this defense is below avg buy good enough for two wins.

This is my exact thinking as well.  I had to take a step back and realize this today in that Rivers and Big Ben are HOF QBs and be willing to give the defense a chance to improve.

The good news is our offense has a killer mentality that it never had with Alex Smith.

[Chiefsfan1963 1,101]

8 minutes ago, Lamardirts said:

Exactly how does being positive make you a better person?   I can show you examples of being a sunshine pumper enables some pretty crappy things to happen because instead of dealing with crap thats not fun you merely gloss over it with positive vibes and good thoughts.   I understand if you want to look at the cup half fun and thats great, but saying your a better person that the one who calls it half full is pretty pompous.   

The defense sucks you can't argue it.   Sutton has a say who gets signed and drafted and he hasn't developed one Pro Bowl caliber players since being here and we have spent a butt load on that side of the ball.   Ill give him injuries to a degree but guys who have been in this system for years get worse over time not better.  So say we need better players to be better and I'll agree but then I'll ask you who had a big say in bringing in those current players who suck.......its the same guy you don't think deserves any blame.   

Being positive keeps me from going around being pissy about shit I have no control over. Yes I could bitch about every negative thing that happens but how does that help? Does it make me less tense? Does let me sleep better?

Bitching and complaining about things you can do something about is one thing. Doing about shit you have no control over doesn't help anything.

As far as the D struggling, I'm not saying they aren't but I've watched enough football to know that teams win by different phases of the game every week. Two or three weeks the O may win, one or two ST may win, one or two the D may win, and four or five they all may play together and win.

It all works out in the end.

[dksww 484]

7 minutes ago, Chiefsfan1963 said:

It depends, could they have played better, sure. But there were a lot of ticky tac penalties that took an end zone Int away, which eventually turned into a Pittsburgh TD.  A possible phantom interference call that negated a strip sack for a TD.

Then you had Ben, passed the line of scrimmage, throw a TD that shouldn't have been, same for Conner down at the End Zone but no End Zone camera view sow wasn't overturned.

Yes the D could have definitely tackled and defended better but they did enough to win. It won't happen every week though.

The fumble by Connelly at the end of the game made it closer than it should have been. 

yeah, it seemed like the whole 21 point run the Steelers was made was due to the ghost penalty on Scandrick during the fumble TD.  It just seems like the refs weren't gonna let PIT be down 28-0 in the first quarter.

if Conley doesn't fumble on that last drive, the final score is most likely KC 45 PIT 30

[SEMO 6,812]

Merged with “What’s your analysis of the defense thread.”

[Palangi 788]

I think a pass rusher is needed next year.  Speaks is an interior rusher. He can be used as an edge guy in run downs then move inside on pass downs.  

 

The league hates Houston.  He is held more than anyone and never gets calls.  Chris Jones is a close second however. 

 

Sutton is still droping our best pass rushers (Houston and Ford)  into coverage way too often. 

[dksww 484]

5 hours ago, sith13 said:

I was expecting a decent performance from Hitchens with Ragland running the show but Hitchens seems to be the real deal and Ragland looks lost so far this year. 

Ragland got hurt and missed pretty much 3 weeks of the pre-season.  Let's see if he can get going over the next few weeks.  He showed real promise last year and I think the slow start he's had is due to that weird TC injury and missing like 3 weeks of Training Camp.

[qnet 1,150]

I'm sort of agreeing with Chieifsfan1963.  I just watched the full game. Let me just say that the defense is below average, but it wasn't nearly as bad as I thought, by reading the comments. The Steelers got some plays, a lot of them,  but they had to work for it a few times. They worked for it a lot more than the Chiefs had to,  and that was the difference in the game IMO. I'd say Sutton is somewhere between Greb Robinson and Gunther Cunningham. A little better than Robinson but below Cunningham. I know that's not good.

I just want to reserve judgment until they've played some more games against lesser QB's. It may not make a difference, who knows, I sure don't, but I will wait. 

I know some of you are disgusted with the defense, and given the Chiefs history I can't say I blame you. I guess I just don't get so worked up about it anymore like I used to. I'm just going to sit back and enjoy the season, and try not to worry about it.   Andy Reid not going to fire him, at least not now, and the Chiefs got the players they got. Hopefully Berry will help if he ever comes back.