soonerborn77 276 Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 Nick Jacobs @Jacobs71 After double checking, Since 2015, Eric Berry & Justin Houston have played 20 of 52 games together. Since 2017, 1 of 22. In that time, (11-9) with Houston & Berry together since 2015. (1-2) in postseason. (23-9) without Houston and Berry together. (0-1) in postseason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer 8,694 Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 5 minutes ago, soonerborn77 said: Nick Jacobs @Jacobs71 After double checking, Since 2015, Eric Berry & Justin Houston have played 20 of 52 games together. Since 2017, 1 of 22. In that time, (11-9) with Houston & Berry together since 2015. (1-2) in postseason. (23-9) without Houston and Berry together. (0-1) in postseason. Soren Petro on 810 Am a few weeks ago gave similar stats ..... not an overwhelming case to keep either one IMHO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xen 1,010,220 Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 4 hours ago, soonerborn77 said: Nick Jacobs @Jacobs71 After double checking, Since 2015, Eric Berry & Justin Houston have played 20 of 52 games together. Since 2017, 1 of 22. In that time, (11-9) with Houston & Berry together since 2015. (1-2) in postseason. (23-9) without Houston and Berry together. (0-1) in postseason. Well that's just... well shit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FANATIC 852 Posted October 18, 2018 Share Posted October 18, 2018 Joel Corry@corryjoel Is Dee Ford this year's Demarcus Lawrence (pass rusher in a contract year with a breakout season)? It's probably going to be around $16.325M for KC to franchise Ford in 2019 if next year's salary cap is in the $190M neighborhood. https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/pro-chiefs-dee-ford-off-to-a-career-best-start-ranks-inside-the-top-10-at-his-position-through-week-6 … Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mloe68 1,521 Posted October 18, 2018 Share Posted October 18, 2018 9 minutes ago, FANATIC said: Joel Corry@corryjoel Is Dee Ford this year's Demarcus Lawrence (pass rusher in a contract year with a breakout season)? It's probably going to be around $16.325M for KC to franchise Ford in 2019 if next year's salary cap is in the $190M neighborhood. https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/pro-chiefs-dee-ford-off-to-a-career-best-start-ranks-inside-the-top-10-at-his-position-through-week-6 … If we let Houston walk then I would franchise tag Dee. Another thing to consider though is that they may ask Houston to restructure now if any trade is made for any legit player. Veach has his hands full rebuilding this defense but does have some real options and draft picks to do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer 8,694 Posted October 18, 2018 Share Posted October 18, 2018 9 minutes ago, Mloe68 said: If we let Houston walk then I would franchise tag Dee. Another thing to consider though is that they may ask Houston to restructure now if any trade is made for any legit player. Veach has his hands full rebuilding this defense but does have some real options and draft picks to do it. yup Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troyofoc 361 Posted October 18, 2018 Share Posted October 18, 2018 Not till after the season would I think anything of ford. Extremely risky player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liquidfriend 1,151 Posted October 18, 2018 Share Posted October 18, 2018 Believe it or not, but the Chiefs are right outside the top 10 for pass-rush efficiency. They just can't handle working in space for shit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiefmanzada 466 Posted October 18, 2018 Share Posted October 18, 2018 Ford been exciting to watch. Hope it continues Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mloe68 1,521 Posted October 19, 2018 Share Posted October 19, 2018 2 hours ago, Troyofoc said: Not till after the season would I think anything of ford. Extremely risky player. Agree which is why I’d franchise rather than extend. And you can’t apply tag until February Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dksww 484 Posted October 19, 2018 Share Posted October 19, 2018 I'm not sure about franchising all of a sudden. I know he's having a great year, but the value of the FT for a LB in 2018 was $14.9M. I assume that would be higher in 2019, but I could be wrong. OverTheCap has KC with $47.9M in cap space for 2019. FT of Ford at $15M takes it immediately down to $32M with a defense full of question marks. The early 2019 free agent list looks to be heavy on 3-4 OLB and S. Weak at CB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lamardirts 2,117 Posted October 19, 2018 Share Posted October 19, 2018 3 hours ago, dksww said: I'm not sure about franchising all of a sudden. I know he's having a great year, but the value of the FT for a LB in 2018 was $14.9M. I assume that would be higher in 2019, but I could be wrong. OverTheCap has KC with $47.9M in cap space for 2019. FT of Ford at $15M takes it immediately down to $32M with a defense full of question marks. The early 2019 free agent list looks to be heavy on 3-4 OLB and S. Weak at CB. I think the thought process for franchising Ford was letting Houston walk. It would almost be a wash in terms of cap savings by cutting Houston. We would save 14 million or so and have 7 million dead cap space if we cut Houston in which we could use that freed up money on the FT for Ford. The only way we go down to $32 million is if we kept Houston and then tagged Ford in which our OLB situation would be taken care of with Speaks/Kpass being the backups. We could us that $32 million on a safety and start thinking about extending Hill, Jones, Fuller sometime next season. We also have 4 draft picks in the top three in which we could probably devote 3 or all 4 to defense. It would be nice to look at a LG or TE maybe with that third. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sith13 1,746 Posted October 19, 2018 Share Posted October 19, 2018 So now we are considering franchising Ford 😣 The guy is only useful in a situational role and even now playing through an injury since it's a contract year. Any form of resigning unless it's like 4-5 per year would be a stupid move IMO. Find a guy that can stop the run and cover as well so we don't have teams running all over us when they simply pick Ford's side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lamardirts 2,117 Posted October 19, 2018 Share Posted October 19, 2018 59 minutes ago, sith13 said: So now we are considering franchising Ford 😣 The guy is only useful in a situational role and even now playing through an injury since it's a contract year. Any form of resigning unless it's like 4-5 per year would be a stupid move IMO. Find a guy that can stop the run and cover as well so we don't have teams running all over us when they simply pick Ford's side. I completely agree but Houston isn't getting better and if we let both go we can't rely on a rookie draft pick in the late first to come in and provide pressure and Kpass and Speaks as our starting OLB's is a recipe for disaster at this point. Franchising him means he will be eager to prove this year was no fluke and so you pay a little more but you get his best effort. He won't sign for anything less than 10 a year and with his numbers this year he won't have too. I think the most likely solution is letting him walk, keeping Houston one more year even at that ridiculous salary and drafting another OLB and praying Kpass or Speaks can develop this year and next allowing us to cut Houston after 2019, just in time to resign Hill, Jones, and Hunt. I feel like Todd Haley a little bit though, surely there are 11 guys off the street that could do better than what we have seen this year so far...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sith13 1,746 Posted October 19, 2018 Share Posted October 19, 2018 2 hours ago, Lamardirts said: I completely agree but Houston isn't getting better and if we let both go we can't rely on a rookie draft pick in the late first to come in and provide pressure and Kpass and Speaks as our starting OLB's is a recipe for disaster at this point. Franchising him means he will be eager to prove this year was no fluke and so you pay a little more but you get his best effort. He won't sign for anything less than 10 a year and with his numbers this year he won't have too. I think the most likely solution is letting him walk, keeping Houston one more year even at that ridiculous salary and drafting another OLB and praying Kpass or Speaks can develop this year and next allowing us to cut Houston after 2019, just in time to resign Hill, Jones, and Hunt. I feel like Todd Haley a little bit though, surely there are 11 guys off the street that could do better than what we have seen this year so far...... From the Chiefs perspective we don't need Ford to prove anything. If we let him hit the market he'll bring in a 3rd or a 4th at the worst case since some team will bite. Even now he's injured so we cannot waste any time offloading him to preserve some value. Wouldn't even be opposed to trading him if there's a buyer now. Keeping the better player in Houston for cheaper in 2019 while the youngsters take over makes much more sense. Then let Houston walk after 2019. If we really need a big change we must stop wasting picks on edge rushers and actually draft true OLBs. Can't argue with Haley's point. It was true back then and true now, this team needs to find solid defenders and clearly won't be worse with street FAs at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dksww 484 Posted October 19, 2018 Share Posted October 19, 2018 8 hours ago, Lamardirts said: I think the thought process for franchising Ford was letting Houston walk. It would almost be a wash in terms of cap savings by cutting Houston. We would save 14 million or so and have 7 million dead cap space if we cut Houston in which we could use that freed up money on the FT for Ford. The only way we go down to $32 million is if we kept Houston and then tagged Ford in which our OLB situation would be taken care of with Speaks/Kpass being the backups. We could us that $32 million on a safety and start thinking about extending Hill, Jones, Fuller sometime next season. We also have 4 draft picks in the top three in which we could probably devote 3 or all 4 to defense. It would be nice to look at a LG or TE maybe with that third. Houston is expensive, but there's no way they're cutting him after this season. I don't get all this negative energy towards Houston. He's being completely mis-used by an inept DC and even in doing so, he's still a top 5 OLB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer 8,694 Posted October 19, 2018 Share Posted October 19, 2018 2 minutes ago, dksww said: Houston is expensive, but there's no way they're cutting him after this season. I don't get all this negative energy towards Houston. He's being completely mis-used by an inept DC and even in doing so, he's still a top 5 OLB. maybe because he's a broke Dick ..like Berry ..cant be a top 5 LB when you dont play..cant be a top 5 Safety when you dont play.. totally understandable Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dksww 484 Posted October 19, 2018 Share Posted October 19, 2018 Just now, oldtimer said: maybe because he's a broke Dick ..like Berry ..cant be a top 5 LB when you dont play..cant be a top 5 Safety when you dont play.. totally understandable criticizing players for getting hurt is pretty weak minded. I'm sure it's the last thing the players wants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kkuenn 3,612 Posted October 19, 2018 Share Posted October 19, 2018 Screw Ford He is only playing hurt because it is his contract year. So you think he would be in there if he was not? Go after Barr from the Vikings or Clowney from Houston. Then let Bailey go unless he can get a team deal and go after Ansah We get DL and OLB pressures and run stuffing ability plus use our picks then to solidify the S and CB spots Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mloe68 1,521 Posted October 19, 2018 Share Posted October 19, 2018 On 10/12/2018 at 11:41 AM, soonerborn77 said: Nick Jacobs @Jacobs71 After double checking, Since 2015, Eric Berry & Justin Houston have played 20 of 52 games together. Since 2017, 1 of 22. In that time, (11-9) with Houston & Berry together since 2015. (1-2) in postseason. (23-9) without Houston and Berry together. (0-1) in postseason. There was a stat rolling around about how the Jags were 5-0 or something minus Fournette right before we played them. Two straight losses later the stat isn't as compelling. This defense would clearly be better with those guys playing. But whats more compelling about this is how many games our two VERY high priced guys have missed. Tough to build a defense when half your CAP is lost to injury with regularity. And last year it was actually worse so maybe Veach will adapt his vision of how to build defense in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thegoatee 1,781 Posted October 19, 2018 Share Posted October 19, 2018 Ford will want more money than he is worth as purely a pass rush guy. Someone will overpay. I just don’t like him long term. I didn’t like giving Berry lots of money and I didn’t like Houston getting 100 mil. Only the QB should get what Houston got. I’d rather have a balanced defense in the money allocation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dksww 484 Posted October 28, 2018 Share Posted October 28, 2018 3 sacks today by Ford, 2 forced fumbles, 1 recovered by Speaks. It's getting harder and harder to justify not re-signing him. I don't think it breaks the bank. I am still fine with the Franchise Tag in 2019 to see if he can put back to back good seasons together and then in 2020 consider a LT deal. The Chiefs would still be able to take care of Hill in 2019. Technically, you could FT Ford this year and force him to prove it, then FT Hill after 2019 if Ford doesn't pan out OR gets a LT deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetlord 10,210 Posted October 28, 2018 Share Posted October 28, 2018 So many claim Ford is only a pass rusher, and that's pretty true. But DT was a pass rusher as well. Teams learned to run straight at him. I'm not saying Ford is another Derrick Thomas, but I never heard too many complaints about DT's pay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SarcasticOne 24 Posted October 29, 2018 Author Share Posted October 29, 2018 On 10/19/2018 at 8:44 AM, dksww said: criticizing players for getting hurt is pretty weak minded. I'm sure it's the last thing the players wants. I might be wrong, but I think most can appreciate/understand Berry getting hurt last year. It isn't like he can be put up on a rack and a new ACL installed. But this year he has been out 1/2 of the season for a bone spur. Why hasn't it been corrected medically? This is why I started the thread. Ford seems to be a player that deserves an extension, but can't you just see the second game of this season, his "back" or his "groin" being injured and him standing on the sidelines with Berry and Houston? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FANATIC 852 Posted October 29, 2018 Share Posted October 29, 2018 Franchise Tag is My Bet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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