Article: Chiefs switch defense scheme in 2019

[FANATIC 852]

Very interesting thoughts/article on last year draft setting up these changes in 2109. Gives reasons why Veach drafted those players on D , brought in Hitchens a 4-3 LB , with switching to a 4-3 and replacing Sutton in his 2019 in his plan. Have to admit it makes sense. Also points out most of the top defenses in todays nfl are 4-3.

https://arrowheadaddict.com/2018/10/10/brett-veach-bob-sutton-master-plan-chiefs-defense-changes-andy-reid/4/

[Mloe68 1,521]

I think the below excerpt sums it up really well. Offense ahead of schedule, defense a clear work in progress   

Patrick Mahomes is playing better than anyone could have anticipated, and I think Brett Veach knew that Mahomes was destined for super stardom. I believe he also knew he had an aging defense in an out dated scheme that was going to need an overhauled. 

[sith13 1,746]

If Veach is contemplating such a defensive change he should probably has his DC in town. If the next DC (assuming we get rid of Sutton) can't run the defense with the hand he's dealt then it's an even longer building process. Besides what are the current coaches training the young defenders for, a new DC/scheme or the current DC?

[liquidfriend 1,151]

That's a lot of wild predicting, but I see where they're coming from.

If they're going to dump Houston and let Dee Ford walk, I mean like yeah they could really start considering making a change.

[West 6,714]

4-3 or 3-4....you better pressure the QB in the NFL.

w

[Lamardirts 2,119]

Sot he Dline looks like  Houston - Jones - Nandi - Kpass/Speaks    O'Daniels - Hitchens - ?       Fuller, Nelson,  ?        Berry, Watts, ?

Draft a DB, LB, and S?    

That would give you one more year for Kpass and Speaks to develop.   I think Speaks should replace Nandi on passing situations on the interior and rotate on the edge.   

Do we keep Ford?   I actually think both would do better with a hand in the dirt but I don't think we can afford both unless we tag Ford again next year.   

Either way that defense doesn't scare anyone imo unless you get a lock down corner and Berry comes back completely healthy.

[Mloe68 1,521]

8 hours ago, liquidfriend said:

That's a lot of wild predicting, but I see where they're coming from.

If they're going to dump Houston and let Dee Ford walk, I mean like yeah they could really start considering making a change.

There’s a better chance we do neither than both in my opinion.  I think Veach could simply choose between the two as a most likely scenario.  

[Palangi 788]

4 hours ago, Lamardirts said:

Sot he Dline looks like  Houston - Jones - Nandi - Kpass/Speaks    O'Daniels - Hitchens - ?       Fuller, Nelson,  ?        Berry, Watts, ?

Draft a DB, LB, and S?    

That would give you one more year for Kpass and Speaks to develop.   I think Speaks should replace Nandi on passing situations on the interior and rotate on the edge.   

Do we keep Ford?   I actually think both would do better with a hand in the dirt but I don't think we can afford both unless we tag Ford again next year.   

Either way that defense doesn't scare anyone imo unless you get a lock down corner and Berry comes back completely healthy.

I think ben Neimann could be a good stud linebacker over TE's. 

 

Jordan Lucas and Josh Shaw have some upside at safety too. 

[moons314 2,463]

15 hours ago, Mloe68 said:

I think the below excerpt sums it up really well. Offense ahead of schedule, defense a clear work in progress   

Patrick Mahomes is playing better than anyone could have anticipated, and I think Brett Veach knew that Mahomes was destined for super stardom. I believe he also knew he had an aging defense in an out dated scheme that was going to need an overhauled. 

I have nothing against a scheme change, but I think the idea that the current scheme is outdated is absurd.  It's like any scheme, you have to have the players to run it.  Our current scheme relies heavily on the interior line eating blockers and sure tackling safeties who can cover as well as come down to the linebacker area.  Our safety position is a hot mess, so it stands to reason that the defense in this current scheme has issues.

[sith13 1,746]

7 hours ago, Lamardirts said:

Sot he Dline looks like  Houston - Jones - Nandi - Kpass/Speaks    O'Daniels - Hitchens - ?       Fuller, Nelson,  ?        Berry, Watts, ?

Draft a DB, LB, and S?    

That would give you one more year for Kpass and Speaks to develop.   I think Speaks should replace Nandi on passing situations on the interior and rotate on the edge.   

Do we keep Ford?   I actually think both would do better with a hand in the dirt but I don't think we can afford both unless we tag Ford again next year.   

Either way that defense doesn't scare anyone imo unless you get a lock down corner and Berry comes back completely healthy.

The last time we tried this approach was the switch from 4-3 to 3-4 and had guys like Turk McBride and Tank Tyler who were supposed to be great fits to the new scheme. None of them worked out and I think we could be losing a couple unexpected names on that list. 

However a switch to 4-3 might be easier as most of the players played in that setup in college or NFL, yet not a sure thing. I would imagine Chiefs picking up a couple FAs to make that work.

[xen 1,010,220]

Last time we switched schemes we also had a dumbass picking the players who tanked without Billy doing making the big boy decisions.

I don't know if that's what we're doing but at least veach has experience finding 43 players I guess.  

In any case I seem to have more faith in him than Piolio.

[soonerborn77 276]

I feel like we should retain our 3-4, isn't that a better defense to blitz and get pressure on the QB out of?  It seems like you can disguise blitzes better since teams won't know which OLB (or both) are coming after them.  With Mahomes, we are going to get into a lot of shootouts and teams will be throwing a lot to get back into it, case in point with Bortles throwing over 50 times.  I would think the defense we would strive for would be the one that you can generate the most pass rush out of....

[dksww 484]

7 minutes ago, soonerborn77 said:

I feel like we should retain our 3-4, isn't that a better defense to blitz and get pressure on the QB out of?  It seems like you can disguise blitzes better since teams won't know which OLB (or both) are coming after them.  With Mahomes, we are going to get into a lot of shootouts and teams will be throwing a lot to get back into it, case in point with Bortles throwing over 50 times.  I would think the defense we would strive for would be the one that you can generate the most pass rush out of....

They keep drafting 4-3 front 7 guys though and expect them to transition and it takes forever. Either way, you are right, build the defense based on supreme pass rush and DBs that can cover.

[CranjisMcbasketball 780]

7 minutes ago, soonerborn77 said:

I feel like we should retain our 3-4, isn't that a better defense to blitz and get pressure on the QB out of?  It seems like you can disguise blitzes better since teams won't know which OLB (or both) are coming after them.  With Mahomes, we are going to get into a lot of shootouts and teams will be throwing a lot to get back into it, case in point with Bortles throwing over 50 times.  I would think the defense we would strive for would be the one that you can generate the most pass rush out of....

3-4 is better for blitzing in theory yes as you can disguise who is rushing easier, but it is also harder for the defensive players to learn as well.

that being said when you have a dc who doesn’t blitz i don’t see the point of over complicating. Seems like we have the complexity of a 3-4 without the benefits right now

4-3 is more of a keep it simple stupid defense which i believe in general is the way to go in most aspects of life.

[Iluvhouse24 1,808]

15 hours ago, moons314 said:

I have nothing against a scheme change, but I think the idea that the current scheme is outdated is absurd.  It's like any scheme, you have to have the players to run it.  Our current scheme relies heavily on the interior line eating blockers and sure tackling safeties who can cover as well as come down to the linebacker area.  Our safety position is a hot mess, so it stands to reason that the defense in this current scheme has issues.

Agreed Mike. The 34 isnt the problem. Its that Sutton's version is so coverage heavy. That can work too as the Bears have one of the lower blitz percentages in the league in Fangios 34. But in order for it to work you need high end talent on the back end. Thats where we are most thin.

Simply put, in order to cover well you need guys who can cover well. Either way Sutton cant stick around here another year. You cant continue selling fans on a team thats supposed to be a SB contender with bottom 5 defenses.  Its still on Sutton to get the most out of the players he has, and our defense fuckin sucks.

The other thing here I agree with is that we have been drafting/signing players better suited for 43 than a 34. Speaks body type just screams 43 DE. Hitchens is struggling in this system. He was a beast in a 43 in Dallas. O'daniel seems like a great for for the WILL position in a 43.

Lastly, it would allow us to justify letting Ford and Bailey walk and free up nearly 16 million. Ford is a sub par run defender and would be manhandled in the run game as a base 43 end. Conversely, Houston is a very good run defender and at 265 I have little doubt he could thrive in this roll.

I hope, and am actually anticipating that this is whats going to take place. Veach is really sharp. I refuse to believe he is going to overlook these defensive struggles. When you spend 50 million on Hitchens and see him struggle this way, it should be sounding alarms.

[dksww 484]

1 hour ago, Iluvhouse24 said:

Agreed Mike. The 34 isnt the problem. Its that Sutton's version is so coverage heavy. That can work too as the Bears have one of the lower blitz percentages in the league in Fangios 34. But in order for it to work you need high end talent on the back end. Thats where we are most thin.

Simply put, in order to cover well you need guys who can cover well. Either way Sutton cant stick around here another year. You cant continue selling fans on a team thats supposed to be a SB contender with bottom 5 defenses.  Its still on Sutton to get the most out of the players he has, and our defense fuckin sucks.

The other thing here I agree with is that we have been drafting/signing players better suited for 43 than a 34. Speaks body type just screams 43 DE. Hitchens is struggling in this system. He was a beast in a 43 in Dallas. O'daniel seems like a great for for the WILL position in a 43.

Lastly, it would allow us to justify letting Ford and Bailey walk and free up nearly 16 million. Ford is a sub par run defender and would be manhandled in the run game as a base 43 end. Conversely, Houston is a very good run defender and at 265 I have little doubt he could thrive in this roll.

I hope, and am actually anticipating that this is whats going to take place. Veach is really sharp. I refuse to believe he is going to overlook these defensive struggles. When you spend 50 million on Hitchens and see him struggle this way, it should be sounding alarms.

Isn't it also easier to switch from a 3-4 to a 4-3?  

The mistake the Chiefs are making on defense is the guys they draft are 4-3 players they try to work into a 3-4 and it takes the player forever to grasp the concepts.

Fire Sutton, get a 4-3 coach.  

[kkuenn 3,613]

51 minutes ago, dksww said:

Isn't it also easier to switch from a 3-4 to a 4-3?  

The mistake the Chiefs are making on defense is the guys they draft are 4-3 players they try to work into a 3-4 and it takes the player forever to grasp the concepts.

Fire Sutton, get a 4-3 coach.  

No, stay 3-4 and get a coach that knows how to use it with the players we have now. Use FA to get those we can and draft accordingly. 

[Iluvhouse24 1,808]

20 minutes ago, kkuenn said:

No, stay 3-4 and get a coach that knows how to use it with the players we have now. Use FA to get those we can and draft accordingly. 

Hey Kyle...your boyfriend Josey is the 4th rated linebacker in all of football according to PFF. Grading out at an 85.4 overall. I guess you were right. And hes a Donkey to boot.

[kkuenn 3,613]

20 minutes ago, Iluvhouse24 said:

Hey Kyle...your boyfriend Josey is the 4th rated linebacker in all of football according to PFF. Grading out at an 85.4 overall. I guess you were right. And hes a Donkey to boot.

Yeah I was thinking what could Nieman do for us too. Josey just has that innate play for a lb. 

[Mloe68 1,521]

5 hours ago, Iluvhouse24 said:

Agreed Mike. The 34 isnt the problem. Its that Sutton's version is so coverage heavy. That can work too as the Bears have one of the lower blitz percentages in the league in Fangios 34. But in order for it to work you need high end talent on the back end. Thats where we are most thin.

Simply put, in order to cover well you need guys who can cover well. Either way Sutton cant stick around here another year. You cant continue selling fans on a team thats supposed to be a SB contender with bottom 5 defenses.  Its still on Sutton to get the most out of the players he has, and our defense fuckin sucks.

The other thing here I agree with is that we have been drafting/signing players better suited for 43 than a 34. Speaks body type just screams 43 DE. Hitchens is struggling in this system. He was a beast in a 43 in Dallas. O'daniel seems like a great for for the WILL position in a 43.

Lastly, it would allow us to justify letting Ford and Bailey walk and free up nearly 16 million. Ford is a sub par run defender and would be manhandled in the run game as a base 43 end. Conversely, Houston is a very good run defender and at 265 I have little doubt he could thrive in this roll.

I hope, and am actually anticipating that this is whats going to take place. Veach is really sharp. I refuse to believe he is going to overlook these defensive struggles. When you spend 50 million on Hitchens and see him struggle this way, it should be sounding alarms.

Justin Houston is not worth a 10 percent CAP hit period. So he’s got to go minus reworking his deal.  And I think he’s our best defensive player with Ford now being our biggest playmaker.  So losing both of those guys will not make us better and leaves us in tough spot especially with Berry’s issues  

Secondly I believe being aggressive on defense means you’ve got guys who can make the play. Last year we didn’t and the numbers clearly backed that up. I think it’s also evident Veach tried to find some guys who could effectively upgrade blitzes.  And we blitzed a TON more vs Denver with mixed results. I think stunts and blitzes were over 40 percent which is crazy for Sutton  

I just think we are sitting in this weird limbo world right now where there’s nothing especially effective but at the same time the defense has come up huge at critical times so far anyway.  

Moons right here. We’ve got starting safeties nobody else wanted. And now minus Houston no LBer capable of setting an edge in run support. I’m guessing they just double Ford out of the game.  

What do we do? 3-4 base, 4-3 base really matters? We’ve gotta just hope we can get a lead early with defensive stops or rally with critical stops as we have all year because we’re gonna give up a ton of yards in between no matter what scheme or alignment we are in. At least in my opinion.  

Now give me a few early draft picks and another free agent next year and hopefully that narrative changes.  That’s on Veach.  Who’s guiding that group is on Andy.  Right now I’m not sure many guys out there could do much better than Sutton has to date with this group.  And it’s probably going to get messier.  

[Lamardirts 2,119]

I don’t think there are any real answers this season other than getting Berry and even Sorensen back healthy.  But I think making a switch in the offseason would be wise.  We are paying Hutchins to much money to have him waste away in this 3-4 and our other players for the most past could easily transition as most played in a 4-3 in college.

[Mloe68 1,521]

14 minutes ago, Lamardirts said:

I don’t think there are any real answers this season other than getting Berry and even Sorensen back healthy.  But I think making a switch in the offseason would be wise.  We are paying Hutchins to much money to have him waste away in this 3-4 and our other players for the most past could easily transition as most played in a 4-3 in college.

There’s two glimmers of hope here and one is by some miracle we get both Berry and Houston on the field together by December.  The other is that we get at least a few of the young guys to make a true move forward and contribute in earnest.  To me that is on Sutton.  

Other than that this may be more likely to get worse before it gets better with the injuries we have now

[Iluvhouse24 1,808]

1 hour ago, Mloe68 said:

There’s two glimmers of hope here and one is by some miracle we get both Berry and Houston on the field together by December.  The other is that we get at least a few of the young guys to make a true move forward and contribute in earnest.  To me that is on Sutton.  

Other than that this may be more likely to get worse before it gets better with the injuries we have now

Im very excited to see Jordan Lucas Sunday. Thats sad but thats how bad Parker has been the last 2 yrs. Im hoping the kid can take snaps away from Parker if Berry gets back on the field at SS.  

[Mloe68 1,521]

2 hours ago, Iluvhouse24 said:

Im very excited to see Jordan Lucas Sunday. Thats sad but thats how bad Parker has been the last 2 yrs. Im hoping the kid can take snaps away from Parker if Berry gets back on the field at SS.  

Lucas played well enough and showed well enough in film review I read that it is possible we have found something. Converted corner so he's got speed and can help in those dime packages. We just need some safeties that can run and actually tackle too!

[Lamardirts 2,119]

5 hours ago, Mloe68 said:

Lucas played well enough and showed well enough in film review I read that it is possible we have found something. Converted corner so he's got speed and can help in those dime packages. We just need some safeties that can run and actually tackle too!

Always fun watching a young player fight for a position and hopefully be apart of the long term solution at S.    We could definitely use some good news in regards to our defense.