Fire Sutton thread - week 6

[Chiefsfan1963 1,101]

5 minutes ago, kkuenn said:

Though true look at who he inherited and then watched aged or leave and never coached up any replacements. He has yet to mold any new player into his system at all. Chris Jones maybe but what players have floundered and failed in it since he got here? Look at what the offense inherited and how they have improved with additions and even qith injuries to just coaching up players and adjusting as an example.

Since 2013, Reid and Suttons arrival, they have spent 20 picks on the offense and 19 on the defense.

13 of the 20 offensive players are still on the roster, with 2 being first round picks. One was picked this year.

11 of the 19 defensive players are still on the roster, with 1 being a first round pick. Also, 5 of the 11 were picked this year. Therefore, prior to this year only 6 of the 11 draft picks were still on the team.

My point, where has the focus of the team been up to this year. Again, I agree the D looks bad but you have to decide where do you want to focus your picks for good young players?

[Chiefsfan1963 1,101]

37 minutes ago, dksww said:

I think firing Sutton first is the way to go.  Let guys like Nelson, Ragnald walk in FA.  Don't cut Berry or Houston, it's not cost effective to do so. 

Re-stock smartly through FA and the draft.

Outstanding, sounds like a great plan. Send it or take it to the Chiefs. Not being a smartass but we ALL, myself included love talking about how to fix this and that yet we do nothing about it.

Maybe, this Sunday Night, instead of people holding up signs about Mahomes, Hunt, Kelce and Hill, maybe all the signs should be fire Sutton. Put it out on National TV, maybe that will draw some attention since watching game footage doesn't seem to be doing anything.

Better yet, instead of everyone sitting in the parking lot drinking and eating BBQ, maybe they should march outside the stadium protesting Sutton and the D.

[kkuenn 3,613]

4 minutes ago, Chiefsfan1963 said:

Since 2013, Reid and Suttons arrival, they have spent 20 picks on the offense and 19 on the defense.

13 of the 20 offensive players are still on the roster, with 2 being first round picks. One was picked this year.

11 of the 19 defensive players are still on the roster, with 1 being a first round pick. Also, 5 of the 11 were picked this year. Therefore, prior to this year only 6 of the 11 draft picks were still on the team.

My point, where has the focus of the team been up to this year. Again, I agree the D looks bad but you have to decide where do you want to focus your picks for good young players?

This is what I was talking about. They inherited a talented but lost team. Since then they have improved on offense but not on defense even with additions. Thst is on the coaches to hel ask and get what they want. It is also on them to coach them up and learn what they want to do. Offense has done it but not the defense. Add all you want but does it change anything with his Sutton does with them?

[Chiefsfan1963 1,101]

Just now, kkuenn said:

This is what I was talking about. They inherited a talented but lost team. Since then they have improved on offense but not on defense even with additions. Thst is on the coaches to hel ask and get what they want. It is also on them to coach them up and learn what they want to do. Offense has done it but not the defense. Add all you want but does it change anything with his Sutton does with them?

Players are drafted on what the head coach wants. How do we know that Sutton hasn't wanted to get different players and Reid, as arrogant as he can be, said no, I want X,Y or Z.

We don't know and never will.

Not defending him because he's awesome, just saying it's easy for us to sit here and make decisions without knowing what is going on in 1 Arrowhead Drive.

[Mloe68 1,521]

11 hours ago, moons314 said:

Our defense lacked talent before all of the injuries.  This isn't on Sutton. 

Agree.  But I think it’s time to rebuild core of defense this offseason. These older expensive guys just haven’t delivered when we needed them. And id like to do it with a new DC that has a different vision.  Can’t advocate enough for Steve Spanuola to be that guy.  

[Mloe68 1,521]

50 minutes ago, dksww said:

I think firing Sutton first is the way to go.  Let guys like Nelson, Ragnald walk in FA.  Don't cut Berry or Houston, it's not cost effective to do so. 

Re-stock smartly through FA and the draft.

We’d save 12 million vs CAP if we cut Houston.  He’s still a good player just not worth that massive CAP hit.  Big time decision time with him. Berry will be back.  

[kkuenn 3,613]

8 minutes ago, Chiefsfan1963 said:

Players are drafted on what the head coach wants. How do we know that Sutton hasn't wanted to get different players and Reid, as arrogant as he can be, said no, I want X,Y or Z.

We don't know and never will.

Not defending him because he's awesome, just saying it's easy for us to sit here and make decisions without knowing what is going on in 1 Arrowhead Drive.

I am sure they draft with input from the defensive coach to help make the big board. 

[Iluvhouse24 1,808]

6 minutes ago, Mloe68 said:

We’d save 12 million vs CAP if we cut Houston.  He’s still a good player just not worth that massive CAP hit.  Big time decision time with him. Berry will be back.  

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/kansas-city-chiefs/justin-houston-7789/

 

Which number applies to after the 2018 season? Either way I think 12 million is off.

[soonerborn77 276]

12 minutes ago, Mloe68 said:

We’d save 12 million vs CAP if we cut Houston.  He’s still a good player just not worth that massive CAP hit.  Big time decision time with him. Berry will be back.  

We need him though but we need him to be a team player and give some of our money back to help out in other positions.  Once the pats focused on Ford, Speaks who did admirable wasn't able to get as much pressure as we would have liked.

[Chiefsfan1963 1,101]

15 minutes ago, kkuenn said:

I am sure they draft with input from the defensive coach to help make the big board. 

Oh I agree, but we don't exactly know what is going on in the minds of the front office which includes the coaches. 

[kkuenn 3,613]

15 minutes ago, Iluvhouse24 said:

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/kansas-city-chiefs/justin-houston-7789/

 

Which number applies to after the 2018 season? Either way I think 12 million is off.

Save 40 million in cap for 7 million in dead money.....hmmmm..... i think i could live with that 

[Chiefsfan1963 1,101]

8 minutes ago, soonerborn77 said:

We need him though but we need him to be a team player and give some of our money back to help out in other positions.  Once the pats focused on Ford, Speaks who did admirable wasn't able to get as much pressure as we would have liked.

Some players will take the pay cut or reshuffle of funds and others won't.

As injury proned as Houston and Berry have been lately do you really think they will take a pay cut if they don't have to?

They know they will never get another payday.

[soonerborn77 276]

4 minutes ago, Chiefsfan1963 said:

Some players will take the pay cut or reshuffle of funds and others won't.

As injury proned as Houston and Berry have been lately do you really think they will take a pay cut if they don't have to?

They know they will never get another payday.

true, good point...

[soonerborn77 276]

We've been lied to, you are allowed to fire a defensive coordinator in the middle of the season!!!!!!

 

Ian Rapoport‏ @RapSheet

#Bucs players were informed the team is making a change at defensive coordinator, sources sources tell me and @MikeGarafolo. Sounds like Mike Smith is out.

[jetlord 10,210]

The Chiefs have a history of drafting players with raw talent (they say), playing them out of position, and never seeing them develop into steady starters.  Several years ago they drafted three CB in one draft and not one has contributed.  Speaks and Kpass have yet to prove they can play at a high level.  All these thing point to a lack of training up the talent that is here or evaluating the talent available in the draft.  That goes on the DC and the position coaches.  Add in a scheme that consistently fails and the conclusion is obvious.  Sutton isn't going to produce an acceptable defense to compliment the high powered offense.  Time to change.

[Mloe68 1,521]

1 hour ago, Iluvhouse24 said:

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/kansas-city-chiefs/justin-houston-7789/

 

Which number applies to after the 2018 season? Either way I think 12 million is off.

Your right. It looks like we'd actually save 14 million in 2018 alone. 

[ClarksvilleChief 193]

Sutton still hasn't been fired?

[Mloe68 1,521]

1 hour ago, soonerborn77 said:

We've been lied to, you are allowed to fire a defensive coordinator in the middle of the season!!!!!!

 

Ian Rapoport‏ @RapSheet

#Bucs players were informed the team is making a change at defensive coordinator, sources sources tell me and @MikeGarafolo. Sounds like Mike Smith is out.

Mike Stoops was fired as DC at OU last week as well. It can be done, although it rarely helps in the short term. College is a little different though with their recruiting responsibilities. I'm not buying it would help us at all in the short term. But I'm all in to move on after the season. Steve Spagnuola would the ideal hire to me. 

[artsy 1,137]

2 hours ago, jetlord said:

The Chiefs have a history of drafting players with raw talent (they say), playing them out of position, and never seeing them develop into steady starters.  Several years ago they drafted three CB in one draft and not one has contributed.  Speaks and Kpass have yet to prove they can play at a high level.  All these thing point to a lack of training up the talent that is here or evaluating the talent available in the draft.  That goes on the DC and the position coaches.  Add in a scheme that consistently fails and the conclusion is obvious.  Sutton isn't going to produce an acceptable defense to compliment the high powered offense.  Time to change.

Yea, I don't understand their philosophy with the whole drafting players out of their position shit. Why???

I've said it once, and I'll keep saying it....The chiefs should put both Houston and Berry on the trading block, now. If we're gonna rebuild, then damnit rebuild.

[liquidfriend 1,151]

The thing is what slapdick assistant do you want taking over for him on this staff? Andy's kid that was QC a few years ago?

More or less the Defense is what it is at this point and making a change today won't do a whole lot.  But anything less than gutting most to all of the Defensive staff is not acceptable.

Sutton is telling Veach and Andy the kind of players he wants, he oversees the development of them and that his unit plays mistake free, fundamentally sound Defense.  

This concept that everything should just run itself and werthers originals just reads off a Denny's menu is just dumb.  He has to make sure the guys are doing what they're suppose to be doing and if they aren't, he has to fix it.  That's the bottom line.

The people underneath me know their functions and if they don't do it (and it happens) than I am responsible for correcting it and making sure it doesn't continue.

He's the boss of that Defense and anyone that thinks Bob Sutton is free of blame hasn't been the guy.  I remember reading this same exact shit when Clancy Pendergast led the bottom ranked D year one of Todd Haley.  Stop making excuses.

[artsy 1,137]

4 minutes ago, liquidfriend said:

The thing is what slapdick assistant do you want taking over for him on this staff? Andy's kid that was QC a few years ago?

More or less the Defense is what it is at this point and making a change today won't do a whole lot.  But anything less than gutting most to all of the Defensive staff is not acceptable.

Sutton is telling Veach and Andy the kind of players he wants, he oversees the development of them and that his unit plays mistake free, fundamentally sound Defense.  

This concept that everything should just run itself and werthers originals just reads off a Denny's menu is just dumb.  He has to make sure the guys are doing what they're suppose to be doing and if they aren't, he has to fix it.  That's the bottom line.

The people underneath me know their functions and if they don't do it (and it happens) than I am responsible for correcting it and making sure it doesn't continue.

He's the boss of that Defense and anyone that thinks Bob Sutton is free of blame hasn't been the guy.  I remember reading this same exact shit when Clancy Pendergast led the bottom ranked D year one of Todd Haley.  Stop making excuses.

I wonder what Reid says to him after shitty performances like the one last night?

I do know that both reid and sutton don't really care about how many yds. the defense gives up. They only seem to care about how many points the allow. With that said, I'm not sure you can expect to beat  anyone giving up 40+ points.

Again, Reid is the head coach and he is ultimately the one to blame.

[Chiefsfan1963 1,101]

4 hours ago, soonerborn77 said:

We've been lied to, you are allowed to fire a defensive coordinator in the middle of the season!!!!!!

 

Ian Rapoport‏ @RapSheet

#Bucs players were informed the team is making a change at defensive coordinator, sources sources tell me and @MikeGarafolo. Sounds like Mike Smith is out.

Difference, Chiefs are 5-1, the Bucs are 2-3 and have lost their last 3. If the Chiefs go on a slide then maybe.

[kkuenn 3,613]

21 minutes ago, Chiefsfan1963 said:

Difference, Chiefs are 5-1, the Bucs are 2-3 and have lost their last 3. If the Chiefs go on a slide then maybe.

This goes way beyond a 3 game slide though just like it does for the chiefs

 

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/24990373/buccaneers-fire-defensive-coordinator-mike-smith

 

Sunday was the 20th time Smith's defense surrendered over 400 yards of offense during his 37-game tenure. The Bucs have also surrendered 306 explosive plays (rushing plays for 12 or more yards and pass plays of 16 or more yards), third-most in the league during that span.

According to ESPN Stats & Information, the Bucs have generated the lowest pressure rate in the NFL since Smith was named defensive coordinator, generating pressure on just 23.1 percent of dropbacks.

[liquidfriend 1,151]

5 hours ago, artsy said:

I wonder what Reid says to him after shitty performances like the one last night?

I do know that both reid and sutton don't really care about how many yds. the defense gives up. They only seem to care about how many points the allow. With that said, I'm not sure you can expect to beat  anyone giving up 40+ points.

Again, Reid is the head coach and he is ultimately the one to blame.

Yeah, ultimately Reid decided to keep him.

[sith13 1,746]

Besides spending very few picks on defense I also haven't seen any coaching. Pretty much every player enters the league at a certain level and that ends up being their ceiling. Some progress very little while others don't at all.