Houston, Berry Out

[Legend of AC 269]

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2018/10/19/justin-houston-eric-berry-doubtful-mitch-morse-out/

No surprise here.  Both guys need to be gone after this season in my opinion.

[Mloe68 1,521]

Mitch Morse is out as well which could be a big problem against Geno Atkins (who I think is the best interior lineman in the AFC). They have their own share of injuries too though and just had to activate Kevari Russell of all people. 

[Calichief 3,020]

Shocker 

[Iluvhouse24 1,808]

1 hour ago, Legend of AC said:

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2018/10/19/justin-houston-eric-berry-doubtful-mitch-morse-out/

No surprise here.  Both guys need to be gone after this season in my opinion.

So your opinion is that we should cut a player in Berry that has a 13 million dollar cap number and a 29 million dollar dead cap number?

Put very simply, it will cost 16 million dollars more to release him than keep him. It doesnt matter how many times I post this, people just do not get it. 

With him healthy in 2019, you have a very good SS with a very big cap number.  With him injured in 2019, you have no productivity and a cap number that is hard to swallow. Releasing him in 2019, you have no player at all, and a crippling nearly 30 million dollar cap number.

Eric Berry is going to be a Chief in 2019 unless he retires or we find the stupidest GM in NFL history willing to trade for him. Maybe we should ring John Dorsey. 

[Chiefmanzada 466]

Let em get healthy, its their only chance 

[Chiefmanzada 466]

These chiefs are rollin for years to come, better hop back on

[Legend of AC 269]

25 minutes ago, Iluvhouse24 said:

So your opinion is that we should cut a player in Berry that has a 13 million dollar cap number and a 29 million dollar dead cap number?

Put very simply, it will cost 16 million dollars more to release him than keep him. It doesnt matter how many times I post this, people just do not get it. 

With him healthy in 2019, you have a very good SS with a very big cap number.  With him injured in 2019, you have no productivity and a cap number that is hard to swallow. Releasing him in 2019, you have no player at all, and a crippling nearly 30 million dollar cap number.

Eric Berry is going to be a Chief in 2019 unless he retires or we find the stupidest GM in NFL history willing to trade for him. Maybe we should ring John Dorsey. 

Oh I get it plenty.  But if there’s a way the Chiefs can lessen the cap hit then it should be done.  Berry can’t stay healthy and you don’t keep Houston’s contract with a guy who doesn’t sack the QB.  Perhaps they can be restructured?  

[Legend of AC 269]

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/kansas-city-chiefs/cap/2019/

Almost 40 million in cap hit on two guys that can’t stay healthy, or, in Houston’s case, who’s underperforming relative to his  cap number, is just preposterous.  If this money isn’t guaranteed both contracts must be restructured because the cap hit doesn’t get much better in 2019 and beyond.

[Mloe68 1,521]

31 minutes ago, Iluvhouse24 said:

So your opinion is that we should cut a player in Berry that has a 13 million dollar cap number and a 29 million dollar dead cap number?

Put very simply, it will cost 16 million dollars more to release him than keep him. It doesnt matter how many times I post this, people just do not get it. 

With him healthy in 2019, you have a very good SS with a very big cap number.  With him injured in 2019, you have no productivity and a cap number that is hard to swallow. Releasing him in 2019, you have no player at all, and a crippling nearly 30 million dollar cap number.

Eric Berry is going to be a Chief in 2019 unless he retires or we find the stupidest GM in NFL history willing to trade for him. Maybe we should ring John Dorsey. 

Only way he's not a Chiefs player next year is if he retires. And I think this injury he has with surgery is very treatable. Houston is the tough one. Easy answer is to extend Ford and give him a lower CAP value next year and then release Houston. Use the extra 8 million or so on a safety or ILB with cover skills. However I think most of us agree we don't trust Ford or his back to a big extension which really leaves us in tough spot. Ford at 15 mil franchise tag level or Houston at 20 million? Or let both walk and somehow think defense would improve without both OLBs? Veach has some tough decisions to get this done the right way. 

[kkuenn 3,613]

1 hour ago, Mloe68 said:

Only way he's not a Chiefs player next year is if he retires. And I think this injury he has with surgery is very treatable. Houston is the tough one. Easy answer is to extend Ford and give him a lower CAP value next year and then release Houston. Use the extra 8 million or so on a safety or ILB with cover skills. However I think most of us agree we don't trust Ford or his back to a big extension which really leaves us in tough spot. Ford at 15 mil franchise tag level or Houston at 20 million? Or let both walk and somehow think defense would improve without both OLBs? Veach has some tough decisions to get this done the right way. 

No way to Ford tagged. I would rather go after Barr for 8 mil a year or Clowney at 12 or so and get rid of Ford. Houston needs to restructure or Berry does and we cut Houston after next year. 

[Thegoatee 1,781]

Berry to IR by week 11 as he finally gets surgery and an injury settlement release next year as he retires, unless he is on IR again next year out of respect. I think he will never suit up again. We absolutely cannot count on him and need to fill roster spots accordingly even if he is still on the roster.

Houston just needs to be moved on from after 2019.

[xen 1,010,220]

Why would he retire.  Would you retire collecting that kind of paycheck?

[SarcasticOne 24]

Dittos to both ILUVHOUSE24 and XEN for their pointing out the reality of the salary cap hit and "why would he retire" respectively.  Both these guys have it good, know they have it good, and won't be going anywhere until maybe 2020 for Houston and 2021 for Berry, when their cap hits are low enough we can get rid of their sorry selves.  At least Houston goes out and tries to perform, unlike Berry that sits on the sideline watching the game, game after game after game after...

[Legend of AC 269]

14 minutes ago, SarcasticOne said:

Dittos to both ILUVHOUSE24 and XEN for their pointing out the reality of the salary cap hit and "why would he retire" respectively.  Both these guys have it good, know they have it good, and won't be going anywhere until maybe 2020 for Houston and 2021 for Berry, when their cap hits are low enough we can get rid of their sorry selves.  At least Houston goes out and tries to perform, unlike Berry that sits on the sideline watching the game, game after game after game after...

Chiefs will restructure them and cut them a year later.  

[xen 1,010,220]

1 hour ago, Legend of AC said:

Chiefs will restructure them and cut them a year later.  

They're not going to take less.  And if that's the case we're really only delaying the cap problems.

 

[robgar 1,046]

see what xen said, theres no clean way out of this.. injury settlement will just accelerate the  cap hit.. 

 

 

[liquidfriend 1,151]

Berry could be a candidate for June 1st cut next year, but it's likely that he's kept.  If they did move on with the June 1 designation, he would count 6.5 or so m for 2019 in dead cap with the rest in 2020.

The Chiefs really aren't cap strapped so I don't see any dire moves coming up.  Now with that said, if they can get something out of Kpass or Speaks by the end of this season, I think Justin Houston will be released.

[dhitter 1,426]

It's a curse. The 2 defensive players with the biggest contracts and cap hits are the 2 players who always seem to be on the injury report in some for or fashion.

[ChiefThunder 153]

I don't understand why Veach hasn't approached them to restructure or take a pay cut 😕

[oldtimer 8,694]

3 hours ago, ChiefThunder said:

I don't understand why Veach hasn't approached them to restructure or take a pay cut 😕

how do you know he hasn't?

Pay cut..thats laughable

[Iluvhouse24 1,808]

11 hours ago, Mloe68 said:

Only way he's not a Chiefs player next year is if he retires. And I think this injury he has with surgery is very treatable. Houston is the tough one. Easy answer is to extend Ford and give him a lower CAP value next year and then release Houston. Use the extra 8 million or so on a safety or ILB with cover skills. However I think most of us agree we don't trust Ford or his back to a big extension which really leaves us in tough spot. Ford at 15 mil franchise tag level or Houston at 20 million? Or let both walk and somehow think defense would improve without both OLBs? Veach has some tough decisions to get this done the right way. 

Again...I wouldnt rule out a switch to a 43 alignment with a new DC. That would make Speaks a starter at DE and very inexpensive replacement for Ford. Also plays to his skillset more. He has no business dropping into coverage. I think Houston would start for us in 2019 at DE before being released after the season at a negligible number. Houston is a good to very good run defender and would be much better suited for that switch than Ford. Really allows them to justify letting Ford walk as he isn't a schematic fit in a 43 at all.

[Mloe68 1,521]

3 hours ago, Iluvhouse24 said:

Again...I wouldnt rule out a switch to a 43 alignment with a new DC. That would make Speaks a starter at DE and very inexpensive replacement for Ford. Also plays to his skillset more. He has no business dropping into coverage. I think Houston would start for us in 2019 at DE before being released after the season at a negligible number. Houston is a good to very good run defender and would be much better suited for that switch than Ford. Really allows them to justify letting Ford walk as he isn't a schematic fit in a 43 at all.

It’s an interesting theory with some questions   

So we’ve got Nnadi, Williams and I’m assuming Chris Jones for the next several years.  Would those three and Speaks be your dline? So why bring back Houston?

LBs I’m assuming you’d make Hitchens your MIKE.  Ragland walks. Couldn’t Ford be your WILL in the DT mold?  Is this a spot where O Daniel could play? Who’s the SAM LBer gonna be or does this become a priority in the offseason? And if Ford isn’t a WILL then don’t we need two LBs?

And again we are only going to line up in the 4-3 about a third of the time as subpackages become the new base   Does this help us upgrade sub packages and how?  Actually fun stuff to consider   

 

[Iluvhouse24 1,808]

33 minutes ago, Mloe68 said:

It’s an interesting theory with some questions   

So we’ve got Nnadi, Williams and I’m assuming Chris Jones for the next several years.  Would those three and Speaks be your dline? So why bring back Houston?

LBs I’m assuming you’d make Hitchens your MIKE.  Ragland walks. Couldn’t Ford be your WILL in the DT mold?  Is this a spot where O Daniel could play? Who’s the SAM LBer gonna be or does this become a priority in the offseason? And if Ford isn’t a WILL then don’t we need two LBs?

And again we are only going to line up in the 4-3 about a third of the time as subpackages become the new base   Does this help us upgrade sub packages and how?  Actually fun stuff to consider   

 

Here's how it would look with current personnel who are under contract for 2019.

LDE - Houston, Tanoh

UNDER - Jones, Williams

NOSE - Nnadi, Williams

RDE - Speaks, Tanoh

SAM - Hitchens

MIKE - Ragland

WILL - O'Daniel 

CB - Fuller

CB - Ward

FS - Sorenson, Watts

SS - Berry, Lucas

Obviously the secondary is still pathetic, and I doubt Ragland can handle the Mike, but I digress. We knew how much we needed to invest in the secondary anyway this offseason. 

 

 

[dksww 484]

17 hours ago, Iluvhouse24 said:

So your opinion is that we should cut a player in Berry that has a 13 million dollar cap number and a 29 million dollar dead cap number?

Put very simply, it will cost 16 million dollars more to release him than keep him. It doesnt matter how many times I post this, people just do not get it. 

With him healthy in 2019, you have a very good SS with a very big cap number.  With him injured in 2019, you have no productivity and a cap number that is hard to swallow. Releasing him in 2019, you have no player at all, and a crippling nearly 30 million dollar cap number.

Eric Berry is going to be a Chief in 2019 unless he retires or we find the stupidest GM in NFL history willing to trade for him. Maybe we should ring John Dorsey. 

I never understand the animosity fans have towards players when they get hurt.  It's almost as if those fans think this is what the player wants and is picking up a free paycheck.

Even cutting them next season costs way too much and then you gotta go spend more money to get them replaced.  Not smart at all.

Just let these guys get healthy, give them 2019 to prove it on the field.

I hope it doesn't come to that, but the Chiefs are not cutting them until spring of 2020 at the earliest and even then it's still going to be expensive.

[Iluvhouse24 1,808]

2 hours ago, dksww said:

I never understand the animosity fans have towards players when they get hurt.  It's almost as if those fans think this is what the player wants and is picking up a free paycheck.

Even cutting them next season costs way too much and then you gotta go spend more money to get them replaced.  Not smart at all.

Just let these guys get healthy, give them 2019 to prove it on the field.

I hope it doesn't come to that, but the Chiefs are not cutting them until spring of 2020 at the earliest and even then it's still going to be expensive.

Get mad at Dorsey if you are gonna get mad at anybody. Every big contract that guy handed out has bitten us. 

The problem is that these are their prime years. Not saying these guys wont play well into their early 30's, but the years you hope to get the most value on the exorbitant contracts are right now. 

It just goes back to drafting. The only players in the league you should be willing to spend this ridiculous money on is QBs. Outside that teams almost always get bit when they make a player one of the highest paid at his position. Gotta have your cap situation lined out for now and the future. Dorsey didnt seem to get that.

This is why Veach went shorter with the Watkins deal. If he was a total bust, its not hindering us for 7 yrs. 

Dorsey was just an abject failure when it came to negotiating contracts.  We are still feeling the effects, and will continue to. Look at the money he gave LDT and Fisher. Neither one of those guys earned anything close to the money they are earning.