Ragland loses position to Ben by the end of the year?

[Calichief 3,016]

Id Love to see KC draft the next urlacher 

[Mloe68 1,521]

13 minutes ago, Iluvhouse24 said:

I know things change with predraft workouts and the combine, but this years crop of safeties looks really shallow as of now as far as round 1 type talent.

I guess my thought process is what we do ideally. Obviously the draft board should dictate terms. We probably will also have a need for a DE minus a scheme change and that would help balance big raise Chris Jones is gonna get.  I like our interior defensive lineman situation.  

[Mloe68 1,521]

13 minutes ago, Calichief said:

Id Love to see KC draft the next urlacher 

This defense needs a young leader like that to emerge as Houston and Berry near the end of their tenures here. 

[liquidfriend 1,151]

3 hours ago, Mloe68 said:

I think we resign both Nelson and Fuller in the next two offseasons which makes any legit free agent very unlikely. We can balance those contracts with a rookie contract and get a legit talent in the first few rounds.  

No chance they can afford to re-sign both Nelson and Fuller while paying for EB's contract and giving new deals to Chris Jones and Tyreek Hill and possibly Dee Ford.

I think Nelson walks in the off-season.

[sith13 1,746]

3 hours ago, liquidfriend said:

No chance they can afford to re-sign both Nelson and Fuller while paying for EB's contract and giving new deals to Chris Jones and Tyreek Hill and possibly Dee Ford.

I think Nelson walks in the off-season.

Chiefs already have about 40 million in cap space for next year. Jones and Fuller have another year remaining on rookie deals and Houston will be off the books by then. Hill will replace Watkins' deal so not a burden on the cap with EB having only a year left on the books. Also there's no way they pay Dee Ford a high amount. 

Even though they can afford to keep both I doubt anyone would pick Ford over Nelson at this point. Oft-injured 1-dimensional specialist over a 3-down guy only ruins franchises and looking at recent draft picks I think the staff is aware of the situation. 

[Iluvhouse24 1,808]

2 hours ago, liquidfriend said:

No chance they can afford to re-sign both Nelson and Fuller while paying for EB's contract and giving new deals to Chris Jones and Tyreek Hill and possibly Dee Ford.

I think Nelson walks in the off-season.

This is nonsense. If they release Houston after 2019 and Berry after 2020 they free up 30 million between those moves alone. Couple that with the fact that they project to be 50 million under the cap after 2020 as is, and there is very much a chance to resign both those 2. 

The only way Steven Nelson walks this off season is if they spend money on a corner thats even better. They have no money invested in corner as of now.

[liquidfriend 1,151]

13 hours ago, sith13 said:

Chiefs already have about 40 million in cap space for next year. Jones and Fuller have another year remaining on rookie deals and Houston will be off the books by then. Hill will replace Watkins' deal so not a burden on the cap with EB having only a year left on the books. Also there's no way they pay Dee Ford a high amount. 

Even though they can afford to keep both I doubt anyone would pick Ford over Nelson at this point. Oft-injured 1-dimensional specialist over a 3-down guy only ruins franchises and looking at recent draft picks I think the staff is aware of the situation. 

What?  No lol.  The contract Tyreek is about to get won't simply replace Berry's for 2 reasons.

1.  Tyreek Hill is going to make way more than EB will.

2.  The idea that EB is going to get cut anytime soon is a MB fantasy.

They will have to start working on extending Jones or Fuller early because they can't tag them both if negotiations don't go well.  That's if they don't have to tag Dee Ford twice.

They are also going to pick that '1-dimensional specialist' over a corner 10 times out of 10 because they've proven that they can coach some corners up.

That's before even mentioning the Watkins situation where the assumption is the Chiefs will be eager to dump before year 3 starts.  Veach tried to trade for Sammy, so that's probably not a great assumption.

Nelson and Fuller are definitely replaceable.

11 hours ago, Iluvhouse24 said:

This is nonsense. If they release Houston after 2019 and Berry after 2020 they free up 30 million between those moves alone. Couple that with the fact that they project to be 50 million under the cap after 2020 as is, and there is very much a chance to resign both those 2. 

The only way Steven Nelson walks this off season is if they spend money on a corner thats even better. They have no money invested in corner as of now.

That's absurd and you guys have some weird numbers.

It's going to probably cost them around 20m avg to extend Tyreek Hill and somewhere North of 15 to extend Chris Jones.

They can't spend 35+ on avg for the pair than another 30 on average for Fuller and Nelson.  

[Mloe68 1,521]

16 hours ago, liquidfriend said:

No chance they can afford to re-sign both Nelson and Fuller while paying for EB's contract and giving new deals to Chris Jones and Tyreek Hill and possibly Dee Ford.

I think Nelson walks in the off-season.

The Chiefs can get out from underneath Berry's contract after next season and they don't have to get deals done initially with anyone other than Nelson by tagging Dee Ford. And they have 41 million in CAP space without any carry over. Releasing Justin Houston frees up another 14 million. There's no reason we can't get a deal done with both young corners. But I would agree the top priority long term on defense is Chris Jones and figuring out plan for Dee Ford. 

[liquidfriend 1,151]

15 minutes ago, Mloe68 said:

The Chiefs can get out from underneath Berry's contract after next season and they don't have to get deals done initially with anyone other than Nelson by tagging Dee Ford. And they have 41 million in CAP space without any carry over. Releasing Justin Houston frees up another 14 million. There's no reason we can't get a deal done with both young corners. But I would agree the top priority long term on defense is Chris Jones and figuring out plan for Dee Ford. 

Sure they could get out of Berry's deal, but is Clark Hunt going to eat shit to make it happen? 

[Mloe68 1,521]

13 minutes ago, liquidfriend said:

Sure they could get out of Berry's deal, but is Clark Hunt going to eat shit to make it happen? 

Not sure what this means. But if it means will he swallow cash to get out from underneath a bad deal, he's already proven this isn't an issue. There's a very real chance in 2020 neither Berry or Houston will be here. But if both are then we are without question limited in the young guys we sign around them. I'm in for building this defense around Nnadi, Nelson, Fuller, Jones, Speaks, Hitchens and a few other younger cheaper guys that hopefully emerge. I'm not letting Ford walk either but would prefer to make him stay healthy another season through a franchise tag. 

[liquidfriend 1,151]

1 minute ago, Mloe68 said:

Not sure what this means. But if it means will he swallow cash to get out from underneath a bad deal, he's already proven this isn't an issue. There's a very real chance in 2020 neither Berry or Houston will be here. But if both are then we are without question limited in the young guys we sign around them. I'm in for building this defense around Nnadi, Nelson, Fuller, Jones, Speaks, Hitchens and a few other younger cheaper guys that hopefully emerge. I'm not letting Ford walk either but would prefer to make him stay healthy another season through a franchise tag. 

Berry's contract was written and finalized by Clark himself.  Not something he does normally, so I don't see them moving on so fast.

[Iluvhouse24 1,808]

3 hours ago, liquidfriend said:

What?  No lol.  The contract Tyreek is about to get won't simply replace Berry's for 2 reasons.

1.  Tyreek Hill is going to make way more than EB will.

2.  The idea that EB is going to get cut anytime soon is a MB fantasy.

They will have to start working on extending Jones or Fuller early because they can't tag them both if negotiations don't go well.  That's if they don't have to tag Dee Ford twice.

They are also going to pick that '1-dimensional specialist' over a corner 10 times out of 10 because they've proven that they can coach some corners up.

That's before even mentioning the Watkins situation where the assumption is the Chiefs will be eager to dump before year 3 starts.  Veach tried to trade for Sammy, so that's probably not a great assumption.

Nelson and Fuller are definitely replaceable.

That's absurd and you guys have some weird numbers.

It's going to probably cost them around 20m avg to extend Tyreek Hill and somewhere North of 15 to extend Chris Jones.

They can't spend 35+ on avg for the pair than another 30 on average for Fuller and Nelson.  

They just cant let Nelson walk. They cant spend this long devrloping him and watch him leave. Hes a damn good cover corner. If he walks we have frickin Fuller, Tremon Snith and Charvarius Ward under contract at corner. They eould be putting themselves in a positiin where they HAVE to take 2 corners in their first 3 picks. And we'd go into next year with just as many question marks there as we did this year. Nelson stays. If we go corner early next year and one of them develops maybe then they can justify letting Fuller walk.

[Lamardirts 2,114]

1 hour ago, liquidfriend said:

Berry's contract was written and finalized by Clark himself.  Not something he does normally, so I don't see them moving on so fast.

You are dead wrong.   He has played like 1 game under this new contract and will be here through next year.   No one is worth paying nearly $50 million and only netting at best 30% participation.   They are cutting bait as soon as it makes financial sense unless Berry comes back and dominates at the end of this year and next.   Then its a possiblity he finishes out his contract here.  Houston's contract is way worse and he will be lucky to survive this offseason, unless he straight up balls the rest of this season.   In those cases we are restricted a bit by the cap but have to pro bowl caliber players at least to show for it.

[liquidfriend 1,151]

6 minutes ago, Iluvhouse24 said:

They just cant let Nelson walk. They cant spend this long devrloping him and watch him leave. Hes a damn good cover corner. If he walks we have frickin Fuller, Tremon Snith and Charvarius Ward under contract at corner. They eould be putting themselves in a positiin where they HAVE to take 2 corners in their first 3 picks. And we'd go into next year with just as many question marks there as we did this year. Nelson stays. If we go corner early next year and one of them develops maybe then they can justify letting Fuller walk.

They will keep Scandrick for another year and draft a corner in the first couple rounds.

Just now, Lamardirts said:

You are dead wrong.   He has played like 1 game under this new contract and will be here through next year.   No one is worth paying nearly $50 million and only netting at best 30% participation.   They are cutting bait as soon as it makes financial sense unless Berry comes back and dominates at the end of this year and next.   Then its a possiblity he finishes out his contract here.  Houston's contract is way worse and he will be lucky to survive this offseason, unless he straight up balls the rest of this season.   In those cases we are restricted a bit by the cap but have to pro bowl caliber players at least to show for it.

How am I dead wrong?  Clark Hunt wrote the deal and realistically he's not a player that's ideal to cut till 2021.

He's going to get the spurs taken care of in the offseason and will he playing next year.

[kkuenn 3,597]

I don't think Hill will take 20 million average to stay. He would do well to take 16 to 18 like Watkins had but with more guaranteed and longer contract in years. Berry will be done after next year imo. We have done well by sticking by hom then signing a  bad contract to extend him to play 1 game so far. Houston will be gone too and I think we extend one of the two in the season or prior to it. Remember what happened to Thomas can happen to anyone at any time. Treat them right and even try to extend them before the play in their final year fairly and I think we will be fine. Plenty of cap space to go around here soon.

[liquidfriend 1,151]

Why would be take a penny less than what OBJ got from the Giants, who is making an avg of 19m per season

[kkuenn 3,597]

51 minutes ago, liquidfriend said:

Why would be take a penny less than what OBJ got from the Giants, who is making an avg of 19m per season

I think he is a great receiver as just dont see him as the top or best one just yet. He has top speed etc but his height and with age reducing speed could make him fall quickly too. I could see us doing a 5 year type contract once he hits 30 plus then see from there. I do think having all these weapons makes him even better but do you see him as the type without Kelxe, hunt and now Watkins being able to beat double teams or being jammed and physically played to be a top WR consistently?  Pay him top 5 to 8 type money. I see him around 16 low end with higher contract guarantees to 18 at top end type contract. Just my opinion but by 2 years from now it can all change as others over pay for the position too 

[liquidfriend 1,151]

He's on pace for over 1400 yards this season.  Good luck with that.

[kkuenn 3,597]

1 minute ago, liquidfriend said:

He's on pace for over 1400 yards this season.  Good luck with that.

If he keeps it up it will only be better for all involved.

[Mloe68 1,521]

5 hours ago, liquidfriend said:

Berry's contract was written and finalized by Clark himself.  Not something he does normally, so I don't see them moving on so fast.

If he’s an elite safety and healthy your right. But I think it’s clear at this point his health is at best going to be a major question mark the rest of his career.  We’re locked in with Berry next season so we will  see first hand.  Either way I think we have the money and I would keep those two young corners. 

[liquidfriend 1,151]

He's going to have plenty of time to rebound, as it's not going to make financial sense to cut bait anytime soon.

[sith13 1,746]

When healthy there's no better player at their position in the NFL but the "healthy" part is critical. If Berry comes back 100% after the spurs taken care of he'll probably play out his contract, if not he has until 2021 to prove himself which is the financial deadline to make a move (barring a June 1st move) and if he bounces back nobody will care about him missing first 2 years of the deal. 

[sith13 1,746]

12 hours ago, liquidfriend said:

What?  No lol.  The contract Tyreek is about to get won't simply replace Berry's for 2 reasons.

1.  Tyreek Hill is going to make way more than EB will.

2.  The idea that EB is going to get cut anytime soon is a MB fantasy.

They will have to start working on extending Jones or Fuller early because they can't tag them both if negotiations don't go well.  That's if they don't have to tag Dee Ford twice.

They are also going to pick that '1-dimensional specialist' over a corner 10 times out of 10 because they've proven that they can coach some corners up.

That's before even mentioning the Watkins situation where the assumption is the Chiefs will be eager to dump before year 3 starts.  Veach tried to trade for Sammy, so that's probably not a great assumption.

Nelson and Fuller are definitely replaceable.

That's absurd and you guys have some weird numbers.

It's going to probably cost them around 20m avg to extend Tyreek Hill and somewhere North of 15 to extend Chris Jones.

They can't spend 35+ on avg for the pair than another 30 on average for Fuller and Nelson.  

Not sure if you understood my logic. Hill will replace Watkins as he won't have a major cap hit in 2020 (first year) which happens to be Watkins' last year. We sure won't be paying 2 WRs top 5 money while making Mahomes the highest paid QB in the NFL, that's absurd and one of the WRs won't be on the roster for 2021. Hill replacing Watkins will probably cost a couple more which won't have much impact with increasing cap figures. 

Berry won't be cut unless he retires or something. Nevertheless that doesn't change our current 40 million cap space for next year without making any roster moves (Houston, Berry, Sorensen, etc all on the roster). Jones will get extended after this season IMO, won't have much cap at first unless we want to frontload the deal but that's just cap tweaking. 

Actually they haven't shown any success at developing CBs. Nelson is the only DB drafted by this regime that's on the roster and we still keep picking up guys like Scandrick when cutting our own 3rd round picks. Not sure where you got the impression that this regime can develop guys. Jones, Ford, Nelson are the only 3 guys defenders from this regime that actually progressed in 6 years, luck is more likely than success with such figures. The only reason most of our coaches are still in town is simply because Reid is way too loyal. 

I doubt they would sign Ford to a real extension as he's one signature away from sitting out this entire season as well, the guy is still playing with the back issues from last year and the contract season is the only thing keeping him on the field. Even in that case he's a liability against the run or in coverage, he's a pure edge rusher which frankly has little value in 3-4 on its own. That's probably why they spent 2 2nds on OLB prospects in the last 2 years. Ford is still a very valuable trade bait since sacks bring in picks but that's pretty much it. We can't fix the defense with an OLB that doesn't know what to do in a run play and moving a high priced guy to backup role is just crazy. IMO Steelers game was the best showcase of Ford in KC and basically his ceiling. He didn't put up sacks but had nice QB pressures and forced a few bad throws all on his own but also directly gave up over 100 yards in a couple plays just because he cannot play the position. 

[liquidfriend 1,151]

They aren't trading Ford and that 40 mil in cap space will quickly go down to to 22 if he can successfully get a DE number.

[kkuenn 3,597]

32 minutes ago, liquidfriend said:

They aren't trading Ford and that 40 mil in cap space will quickly go down to to 22 if he can successfully get a DE number.

Tag him for one more year then if he plays well and is still injury free see a bjj out signing him. If not, let him go but dont break the bank on him. Bad enough we have had 2 other injury filled contracts taking up so much money in Houston and Berry.