Nosetackles Nnadi and Williams

[Chiefswinitall 60]

I am looking at why our linebackers are getting mauled.  Are our Linebackers allowed to flow unimpeded ?

If our NT's aren't getting push and getting a double team then theres going to be a Lineman blocking a LB'er.

I haven't recorded any games or watched that carefully.  Do any of you know?

[moons314 2,463]

Anecdotal, but I swear I've seen many times that linebackers were taking bad angles, late to the hole, or were in the wrong hole altogether.  I may be misremembering, but that's how it seems to me the majority of the time.

[Iluvhouse24 1,808]

3 hours ago, Chiefswinitall said:

I am looking at why our linebackers are getting mauled.  Are our Linebackers allowed to flow unimpeded ?

If our NT's aren't getting push and getting a double team then theres going to be a Lineman blocking a LB'er.

I haven't recorded any games or watched that carefully.  Do any of you know?

Our problem is almost 100% schematic with regard to our ILBs in my opinion. I have made a point to key in on them the last 3 or 4 weeks. They do not attack gaps, they do not attack the LOS. They are playing textbook read and react and thats why lineman are having so much success getting to the second level and sealing them off. 

They are doing exactly what they are coached to do. Some of the problem is we dont have a pocket collapsing NT, and Allen Bailey is absolutely worthless against the run. 

But I have zero doubt with a scheme where the ILBs were turned loose and coached to attack you would see a world of difference, especially with Hitchens in particular.

We also have an ILB coach who is a Sutton protege. He came over from NYJ with him and apparently teaches the same flawed bullshit Sutton does to his ILBs.

[Chiefswinitall 60]

8 minutes ago, Iluvhouse24 said:

Our problem is almost 100% schematic with regard to our ILBs in my opinion. I have made a point to key in on them the last 3 or 4 weeks. They do not attack gaps, they do not attack the LOS. They are playing textbook read and react and thats why lineman are having so much success getting to the second level and sealing them off. 

They are doing exactly what they are coached to do. Some of the problem is we dont have a pocket collapsing NT, and Allen Bailey is absolutely worthless against the run. 

But I have zero doubt with a scheme where the ILBs were turned loose and coached to attack you would see a world of difference, especially with Hitchens in particular.

We also have an ILB coach who is a Sutton protege. He came over from NYJ with him and apparently teaches the same flawed bullshit Sutton does to his ILBs.

Thanks.  I like to be fair.  If our big guys up font don't do their job then we can unfairly blame our LB'ers everytime.

[Thegoatee 1,785]

I observed several occasions against Seattle where the ILBs were running horizontally to the line of scrimmage watching and waiting for the RB to make a move. It is like a total read and react passive scheme not designed to make negative plays.

[sith13 1,746]

Our LBs seem to wait for the runner to get through the LOS before making a play. I'm not sure if it's due to lack of lanes created by the NTs or simply a weird passive approach at playcalling.

[Chiefswinitall 60]

54 minutes ago, sith13 said:

Our LBs seem to wait for the runner to get through the LOS before making a play. I'm not sure if it's due to lack of lanes created by the NTs or simply a weird passive approach at playcalling.

https://www.arrowheadpride.com/2018/10/30/18041312/kansas-city-chiefs-defensive-trends-and-tabulation-for-week-8

look at video ' box safety not attacking a gap'.

[sith13 1,746]

3 minutes ago, Chiefswinitall said:

https://www.arrowheadpride.com/2018/10/30/18041312/kansas-city-chiefs-defensive-trends-and-tabulation-for-week-8

look at video ' box safety not attacking a gap'.

Wow that's just sad. 

[Docbarnabee 225]

The biggest problem is that they are not making tackles or they are reacting too late and end up getting picked off by a lineman. 

[Mloe68 1,521]

 14 missed tackles in Seattle alone. That's just insanely bad. But we also are routinely out of position in containment which opens up constant big plays in the running game and especially by a running QB. There's a predominant thought our interior lineman aren't doing their job, which is certainly somewhat true. But our LBs and safeties are just a train wreck of mistakes every week. I agree with ILoveHouse24 that at this point our scheme has sucked the confidence out of our best run defenders and the result is soft play, bad technique and a general lack of aggressiveness. Hitchens came in from Dallas with the a nickname of "Hitman". That's almost comical from what we are seeing now. 

In short our NTs haven't been world beaters but this is hardly their fault. This isn't 2003 where the group was just a talentless pile of crap. The 2018 team has some very real individual talent yet as a group is regressing to a point its just as much of a pile of crap. It's really demoralizing to me that a team with Chris Jones, Dee Ford, Justin Houston and Eric Berry could play that bad last week as a group. 

[oldtimer 8,694]

it was mentioned this week on one of the radio shows that Chris Jones is notorious for ad-libbing and thats where many of his pressures and sacks come from but the down side to that  is that it often leaves his team mates in a bad position hence the bad angles etc.

[Mloe68 1,521]

26 minutes ago, oldtimer said:

it was mentioned this week on one of the radio shows that Chris Jones is notorious for ad-libbing and thats where many of his pressures and sacks come from but the down side to that  is that it often leaves his team mates in a bad position hence the bad angles etc.

Interesting. That was the exact MO of Marcus Peters.  And I saw Dee Ford several times last week abandon his containment responsibilities.  

I think maybe you could also consider some of this a biproduct of a defensive scheme which seems to take away natural aggressive. Some players clearly have a hard time reading and reacting to everything. 

[Lamardirts 2,121]

Or the players are in a way rebelling against the scheme.  I know if I was Chris Jones I would feel like I better make a play or it won’t get made instead of occupying lineman while RBs blow past the guys behind me whiffing at tackles.   Regardless of what Jones is doing that has nothing to do with our ilbs whiffing on tackle after tackle and getting driven back almost every carry.   Last weeks careon trucksd both Sorensen and Ragland ( I might have been Hitch I can’t remember) for that goal line score.  To me freelanced spesks of players not buying into the scheme more than merely being selfish.

[ChiefsFoolFan 149]

11 hours ago, Mloe68 said:

 14 missed tackles in Seattle alone. That's just insanely bad. But we also are routinely out of position in containment which opens up constant big plays in the running game and especially by a running QB. There's a predominant thought our interior lineman aren't doing their job, which is certainly somewhat true. But our LBs and safeties are just a train wreck of mistakes every week. I agree with ILoveHouse24 that at this point our scheme has sucked the confidence out of our best run defenders and the result is soft play, bad technique and a general lack of aggressiveness. Hitchens came in from Dallas with the a nickname of "Hitman". That's almost comical from what we are seeing now. 

In short our NTs haven't been world beaters but this is hardly their fault. This isn't 2003 where the group was just a talentless pile of crap. The 2018 team has some very real individual talent yet as a group is regressing to a point its just as much of a pile of crap. It's really demoralizing to me that a team with Chris Jones, Dee Ford, Justin Houston and Eric Berry could play that bad last week as a group. 

I completely agree regarding the defensive talent level we have right now as opposed to 2003.  To me this makes it obvious what the problem is.... BOB SUTTON.

[Thegoatee 1,785]

Not saying this is our main problem, but if Sutton cannot reign in guys who decide to freelance to the detriment of the rest of the team then Sutton obviously is a weak presence that doesn’t command respect. All the more reason Grandpa Bob needs to retire.

[Mloe68 1,521]

8 hours ago, ChiefsFoolFan said:

I completely agree regarding the defensive talent level we have right now as opposed to 2003.  To me this makes it obvious what the problem is.... BOB SUTTON.

I’m not going to scapegoat the entire problem with him as most of us thought we needed another full offseason with this defense. But he got help this year and should have been able to orchastrate a much better plan for incorporating young guys while better utilizing talent he did have to hide talent he didn’t.  

Again as it pertains to this year Andy needs to go into every game trying to figure out how to score 40.  If we happen to get a good defensive performance at some point, consider it an unexpected bonus. 

[Iluvhouse24 1,808]

18 minutes ago, Mloe68 said:

I’m not going to scapegoat the entire problem with him as most of us thought we needed another full offseason with this defense. But he got help this year and should have been able to orchastrate a much better plan for incorporating young guys while better utilizing talent he did have to hide talent he didn’t.  

Again as it pertains to this year Andy needs to go into every game trying to figure out how to score 40.  If we happen to get a good defensive performance at some point, consider it an unexpected bonus. 

This is my main issue with Werthers. Reid tailors his offense to his players. He is special because he plays to the strengths of every player on that side of the ball.

Sutton is the complete opposite. The players are forced to do what he asks of them in his defense regardless of if its something they've had any success at before. And continues asking them to do the same things when its blatant that their skillsets are better utilized other ways.

I don't think he is a good enough coach to make these kind of adjustments. He continues with the same playcalling, personnel groupings, etc. Despite the fact his defense has gotten progressively worse for 3 straight years. Who fuckin does that?

[Mloe68 1,521]

28 minutes ago, Iluvhouse24 said:

This is my main issue with Werthers. Reid tailors his offense to his players. He is special because he plays to the strengths of every player on that side of the ball.

Sutton is the complete opposite. The players are forced to do what he asks of them in his defense regardless of if its something they've had any success at before. And continues asking them to do the same things when its blatant that their skillsets are better utilized other ways.

I don't think he is a good enough coach to make these kind of adjustments. He continues with the same playcalling, personnel groupings, etc. Despite the fact his defense has gotten progressively worse for 3 straight years. Who fuckin does that?

Pretty spot on. Andy’s SO good with QBs because he doesn’t try to fit square peg into round hole. He’s flexible and knows how to game plan to strengths.  

Sutton is just the opposite. His scheme worked when he had exactly players he needed, but first sign of adversity or injury or depletion of talent left him grasping at straws with no answer.  We don’t have the time or resources to go build him perfect defense and then hope his group has no injury issues. We need someone who can make the most of what he has on the fly and understands that player development is key. So a scheme and plan to use young guys is crucial. 

Oh well. This is a VERY important subject for another day.  Can’t do anything about it week 17. Hopefully Andy’s seen enough of defense to know he can’t trust them with any lead. Go down swinging with our superstar QB and live with that.  And if defense does show up in some way, consider it a bonus. Too much on the line today not to think that way!

[moons314 2,463]

3 hours ago, Mloe68 said:

Pretty spot on. Andy’s SO good with QBs because he doesn’t try to fit square peg into round hole. He’s flexible and knows how to game plan to strengths.  

Sutton is just the opposite. His scheme worked when he had exactly players he needed, but first sign of adversity or injury or depletion of talent left him grasping at straws with no answer.  We don’t have the time or resources to go build him perfect defense and then hope his group has no injury issues. We need someone who can make the most of what he has on the fly and understands that player development is key. So a scheme and plan to use young guys is crucial. 

Oh well. This is a VERY important subject for another day.  Can’t do anything about it week 17. Hopefully Andy’s seen enough of defense to know he can’t trust them with any lead. Go down swinging with our superstar QB and live with that.  And if defense does show up in some way, consider it a bonus. Too much on the line today not to think that way!

Not to knock Andy, but if you look at his string of QBs, he's clearly had players of similar skillsets at that position over the years.  While Mahomes is the most talented of them all, McNabb, Smith, Vick, all had an element of mobility.  Reid has never really tried to plug in a true pocket passer, a Phillip Rivers type of QB.  That's not a negative, I think that's more of Reid identifying a QB that fits what he wants to do on offense, as opposed to the other way around.  Once he's got his basis, then he can make subtle changes to play to the QBs strengths.  That's a credit to Reid.