dksww 484 Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 1 minute ago, Iluvhouse24 said: Another thing we have to factor in is safety play. They challenge our CBs deep because they know there is such shitty help over the top coming from the safeties. Sorenson, Parker, Murray. They all fuckin blow. Why wouldnt QBs take shots? Can they afford Nelson and a free agent Safety like Collions or Clinton-Dix? I'm showing $37 in cap space but they'll also have to pay other guys like Ford. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iluvhouse24 1,808 Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 3 minutes ago, dksww said: Can they afford Nelson and a free agent Safety like Collions or Clinton-Dix? I'm showing $37 in cap space but they'll also have to pay other guys like Ford. So much of it depends on what they do with Ford and Houston. Letting Bailey walk saves 8 mill, but franchising Ford will effectively add 8 mill back to the 8 million dollar number he is at now. So thats a wash. And when do they extend Hill and Jones? Im sure they COULD do it, but we are just now getting out of cap hell. I doubt they are in a hurry to get back in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dksww 484 Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 2 minutes ago, Iluvhouse24 said: So much of it depends on what they do with Ford and Houston. Letting Bailey walk saves 8 mill, but franchising Ford will effectively add 8 mill back to the 8 million dollar number he is at now. So thats a wash. And when do they extend Hill and Jones? Im sure they COULD do it, but we are just now getting out of cap hell. I doubt they are in a hurry to get back in it. Bailey is a free agent after this season so his salary wasn't included in the $37M cap space per OTC. I'm sure there's a way to extend Hill, Jones and even Ford where it saves you on the 2019 cap hit and increases in 2020 when they have loads of cap space. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mloe68 1,521 Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 12 hours ago, Iluvhouse24 said: Wards emergence has allowed them to move Fuller back to the slot where he absolutely excels. This CB trio is working. Ill be surprised if they dont pay Nelson and keep it intact going forward. Unbelievable considering where we were a few weeks ago, but it makes sense. If Nelson can get away from the penalties, he's got real coverage skills and is a physical player. On the other hand they could let Nelson leave, take the third round comp pick and draft his replacement in the first/second round. I think they pay him though. We are still hanging on by a thread at safety in my opinion. That's my top priority. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mloe68 1,521 Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 31 minutes ago, Iluvhouse24 said: Another thing we have to factor in is safety play. They challenge our CBs deep because they know there is such shitty help over the top coming from the safeties. Sorenson, Parker, Murray. They all fuckin blow. Why wouldnt QBs take shots? Valid point. But in my opinion that would be my plan at least initially. Lets make the 42 year old beat us over the top in zero degree weather rather than letting him nickel and dime our offense off the field. Really not much different than what we did vs the Colts who clearly had a hobbled TY Hilton. The Pats are not blessed with tons of speed at WR. But they are VERY adept at finding gaps and making clutch chain moving catches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mloe68 1,521 Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 22 minutes ago, dksww said: Bailey is a free agent after this season so his salary wasn't included in the $37M cap space per OTC. I'm sure there's a way to extend Hill, Jones and even Ford where it saves you on the 2019 cap hit and increases in 2020 when they have loads of cap space. They can't save money on Hill or Jones next year because those contracts are so dirt cheap. They certainly could save a ton of money in the short term by extending rather than tagging Ford though. Man does a player with prior back issues scare me though. Justin Houston is playing like a monster again the past few weeks, but I'm still completely on board with releasing him if he won't agree to pay cut (and why would he). I think the more we accomplish this year might actually make it easier for Veach to cut bait with a few high profile veterans and make defense younger. And maybe even send Sutton into retirement. He can probably save his job with another great defensive performance. But he's still very much on the hook to me if we fold this week too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dksww 484 Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 11 minutes ago, Mloe68 said: They can't save money on Hill or Jones next year because those contracts are so dirt cheap. They certainly could save a ton of money in the short term by extending rather than tagging Ford though. Man does a player with prior back issues scare me though. Justin Houston is playing like a monster again the past few weeks, but I'm still completely on board with releasing him if he won't agree to pay cut (and why would he). I think the more we accomplish this year might actually make it easier for Veach to cut bait with a few high profile veterans and make defense younger. And maybe even send Sutton into retirement. He can probably save his job with another great defensive performance. But he's still very much on the hook to me if we fold this week too. Cutting Houston and Berry, for example, wouldn't save all that much and create holes we would have to spend money on. I'm ok with keeping them for now and drafting behind them and/or signing a couple of free agents like Shane Ray or a decent S as depth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palangi 788 Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 I wish watts would have stayed healthy to see if he could be counted on as a starter? Would have liked to see him and Lucas together Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mloe68 1,521 Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 3 minutes ago, dksww said: Cutting Houston and Berry, for example, wouldn't save all that much and create holes we would have to spend money on. I'm ok with keeping them for now and drafting behind them and/or signing a couple of free agents like Shane Ray or a decent S as depth. Cutting Houston would save over 14 million next year which is not insignificant. I'm looking at players who underperform their contracts or seem to be declining overall as Houston has until the past few weeks. Houston still can play at a high level for less sustained periods of time. I kind of see this as his last chance to make a real run with this franchise and he's definitely making the most of it. But we need to look at overall body of work vs that 20 plus million dollar salary when evaluating after the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dksww 484 Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 45 minutes ago, Mloe68 said: Cutting Houston would save over 14 million next year which is not insignificant. I'm looking at players who underperform their contracts or seem to be declining overall as Houston has until the past few weeks. Houston still can play at a high level for less sustained periods of time. I kind of see this as his last chance to make a real run with this franchise and he's definitely making the most of it. But we need to look at overall body of work vs that 20 plus million dollar salary when evaluating after the season. yeah, but it genereates $7M in dead money which counts against the cap as well. post june 1 cut of him would save about $10m. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iluvhouse24 1,808 Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 3 minutes ago, dksww said: yeah, but it genereates $7M in dead money which counts against the cap as well. post june 1 cut of him would save about $10m. Bottom line is this. Even though cutting Houston and letting Ford walks would free up over 20 mill, you cant get rid of that much pass rush. And with the way they played Sunday its hard to see the Chiefs wanting to let either go. But if they franchised Ford they will have over 35 million locked up at OLB. Veach has some super tough decisions to make. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VIChiefsFan 262 Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 How much of a pay cut do you think Houston would take? His cap hit is $21,000,000 but $5.6 million of that is signing bonus and from the restructure which he already received. Personally he is due to make $15,500,000 next year. I don't think that as too far out of line for a guy who has 9 regular season sacks and a couple in the playoffs and is a good run stuffer. He is almost 30 so if we extend it out for a few years we could save some cap space but I don't see us saving a ton, but what do I know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mloe68 1,521 Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 5 minutes ago, dksww said: yeah, but it genereates $7M in dead money which counts against the cap as well. post june 1 cut of him would save about $10m. Right now he has a 21 million CAP hit next year. And yes he has 7 million in bonus money still prorating through 2020. But if we release him there’s no bonus 7 million dollar hit. That 7 is just reduced from 21 to save 14 million in 2019. Post June 1 you would save 17.5 million. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mloe68 1,521 Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 2 minutes ago, VIChiefsFan said: How much of a pay cut do you think Houston would take? His cap hit is $21,000,000 but $5.6 million of that is signing bonus and from the restructure which he already received. Personally he is due to make $15,500,000 next year. I don't think that as too far out of line for a guy who has 9 regular season sacks and a couple in the playoffs and is a good run stuffer. He is almost 30 so if we extend it out for a few years we could save some cap space but I don't see us saving a ton, but what do I know. It’s no easy decision with Houston but I think it would be the right one for a regressing player. He looks rejuvenated and 5 years younger the past two weeks but I think that’s likely fools gold over 17 week season. That said I don’t think we could win AFC Title or Super Bowl without him this year. Again he just looks like a guy that recognizes this unique opportunity and is rejuvenated by it. But even last week he only played a little over half the snaps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VIChiefsFan 262 Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 The only way we cut him is if we think his replacement is currently on the roster. We can't find his production for cheaper in free agency and would hope we wouldn't make moves to worsen our defense. From what I have seen, Speaks has potential but is slow in run and pass coverage. Kpass showed potential but I believe he is a scratch almost every week so he doesn't appear to be ready. My hope is they convince Houston to sign a team friendly deal or they keep him another year and hopefully his replacement is ready. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mloe68 1,521 Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 29 minutes ago, VIChiefsFan said: The only way we cut him is if we think his replacement is currently on the roster. We can't find his production for cheaper in free agency and would hope we wouldn't make moves to worsen our defense. From what I have seen, Speaks has potential but is slow in run and pass coverage. Kpass showed potential but I believe he is a scratch almost every week so he doesn't appear to be ready. My hope is they convince Houston to sign a team friendly deal or they keep him another year and hopefully his replacement is ready. That’s definitely a big part of it is a plan to replace him. I think most agree Speaks isn’t that guy so it would become a draft priority. And they could sign a potential value free agent like Ray as well way below Houstons CAP value the next two seasons. You gotta keep this transition to younger defense going somewhere. And that will help pay Chris Jones, Ford and likely Nelson. Hey all I care about right now is that I’m hoping #50 is the catalyst behind an inspired effort Sunday that leads to an AFC Title. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liquidfriend 1,151 Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 5 hours ago, dksww said: what are you saying? Top 5 CB money? Top 10? Top 20? I think he'll get get close to what the Bears give Fuller a year ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dksww 484 Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 10 minutes ago, liquidfriend said: I think he'll get get close to what the Bears give Fuller a year ago. Jesus, $14M a year? I dont' see that at all. But I could be devaluing him on the open market. It'll be interesting for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liquidfriend 1,151 Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 9 minutes ago, dksww said: Jesus, $14M a year? I dont' see that at all. But I could be devaluing him on the open market. It'll be interesting for sure. The FA pool is really thin in a lot of positions. The best FA CB is a guy coming off a torn ACL. He's getting paid if he hits the market. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iluvhouse24 1,808 Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 1 hour ago, liquidfriend said: The FA pool is really thin in a lot of positions. The best FA CB is a guy coming off a torn ACL. He's getting paid if he hits the market. Hey liquid...Ive seen youre boy Deionte Thompson going as low as late 2nd now in mocks after his championship game faceplant. Tell me you wouldn't jump on him there... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liquidfriend 1,151 Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 28 minutes ago, Iluvhouse24 said: Hey liquid...Ive seen youre boy Deionte Thompson going as low as late 2nd now in mocks after his championship game faceplant. Tell me you wouldn't jump on him there... I wouldn't. He was terrible down the stretch and should have went back. We got enough dudes who look lost in coverage as it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sith13 1,746 Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 12 hours ago, liquidfriend said: The FA pool is really thin in a lot of positions. The best FA CB is a guy coming off a torn ACL. He's getting paid if he hits the market. He sure was playing at that level to begin the year shutting down guys like Brown, etc but I think the penalties and the drop towards the late season would hurt his market value. Still wouldn't be surprised to see him get double figures, FA market is generally crazy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieHard 2,061 Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 It is very rare that we have safety help deep. Can’t think of a deep ball they defended all year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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