dksww 484 Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 8 hours ago, moons314 said: You really think that this is all Bob Sutton, and changing DC is going to make the same pile of crap better? Ford can't play the run, battles injuries, and has put together one season of rushing the passer. Oh, and obviously he's dumber than a stump. If we give him big money, we absolutely deserve shit like what happened tonight. One dimensional situational players for high price tags are the things that wreck franchises. It's not all Bob Sutton but you're talking about a 31st ranked defense letting go a top 3 pass rusher because of one play. I understand you're mad the Chiefs lost, but just stop for a minute. I never said give Dee Ford big money. IMO, they should use the FT on him and make him put together back to back seasons like this while also improving against the run. The FT is not huge money and it keeps the Chiefs in control of him. As far as Sutton goes, he has to be held accountable because this defense does not have trash players everywhere. Jones, Houston, Ford, Hitchens, Nelson, Fuller, Ward, Berry and even Sorenson are enough to build a top 15 defense out of and Sutton couldn't do anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hankstromboli 25 Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 Scheme is a huge issue for this defense for some time. Defense can't tackle. They play undisciplined. So many penalties. This falls on coaching. Also vanilla play calling. Even brady said it after the game. They knew what to expect and minimal adjustments from KC D. Did anyone notice how we got 0 pressure on brady all game. Nothing changed throughout the whole game. Think about that. Sutton had no answers on how to pressure brady and we are one of the best sack teams in the league. I can't understand why we didn't jam their receivers or something to disrupt the timing. Brady just got the ball out soo quickly. A good D coordinator will do something in a game to stop that. KC D is trending down for the last couple years. We lost to Indy horribly. At some point when do you say we need a change or do we continue the downward trend. I believe Andy will let sutton walk. He let go of Alex Smith b/c he knew they couldn't go far with him. I believe he's thinking the same about sutton. Keep our fingers crossed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biggjliv4 1,292 Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 13 minutes ago, hankstromboli said: Scheme is a huge issue for this defense for some time. Defense can't tackle. They play undisciplined. So many penalties. This falls on coaching. Also vanilla play calling. Even brady said it after the game. They knew what to expect and minimal adjustments from KC D. Did anyone notice how we got 0 pressure on brady all game. Nothing changed throughout the whole game. Think about that. Sutton had no answers on how to pressure brady and we are one of the best sack teams in the league. I can't understand why we didn't jam their receivers or something to disrupt the timing. Brady just got the ball out soo quickly. A good D coordinator will do something in a game to stop that. KC D is trending down for the last couple years. We lost to Indy horribly. At some point when do you say we need a change or do we continue the downward trend. I believe Andy will let sutton walk. He let go of Alex Smith b/c he knew they couldn't go far with him. I believe he's thinking the same about sutton. Keep our fingers crossed Agree whole heartedly with you. Change had to occur and we can't fire all the players, we have some talent, but it's not effectively used. NE created various ways to bring pressure in the pocket and get to Pat, Sutton does the same thing repeatedly no matter what...no creativity. As you said, Brady stated our D is predictable. Here's my question, those who want Sutton to stay...why? Talent...NE isn't a team of pro bowlers on D, buy they get the best out of their guys aND put them in position to excel. Teaching....we we've not been able to tackle for years now. What is so great about this guy that you don't want to make changes? We won games despite the defense mostly due to a phenom at QB. DC has to change now or we will repeat this again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sith13 1,746 Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 28 minutes ago, dksww said: It's not all Bob Sutton but you're talking about a 31st ranked defense letting go a top 3 pass rusher because of one play. I understand you're mad the Chiefs lost, but just stop for a minute. I never said give Dee Ford big money. IMO, they should use the FT on him and make him put together back to back seasons like this while also improving against the run. The FT is not huge money and it keeps the Chiefs in control of him. As far as Sutton goes, he has to be held accountable because this defense does not have trash players everywhere. Jones, Houston, Ford, Hitchens, Nelson, Fuller, Ward, Berry and even Sorenson are enough to build a top 15 defense out of and Sutton couldn't do anything. I think edge rushers are way too overrated in the NFL. When was the last time a team played in the SB with 10+ sack guy playing outside (4-3DE or 3-4OLB)? I know it didn't happen in the last 3 years and could be longer. Edge guys need to be able to do it all. Otherwise elite QBs rip defenses apart when it matters. Manning did it to us when Houston and Hali has been terrorizing the NFL and now Brady is repeating that. Sacks are always nice to have but won't ever come up when the QB is taking 2 seconds to throw, we need guys that can cover the underneath against receivers like Edelman or HBs when needed and more importantly every single guy in the front 7 must be good against the run. Find LBs that can do it all (cover, stop the run, rush the pass) and road to the SB gets much easier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soonerborn77 276 Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 53 minutes ago, SEMO said: Calm down. Maybe don’t allow him to blatantly troll Chiefs fans on a chiefs message board? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClarksvilleChief 193 Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 Ford did absolutely nothing all game...and for the most part we survived that..until that ONE play..he doesn't pay attention to where he is lining up and it cost his team a trip to the super bowl..I would not pay an employee millions of dollars if he cost me millions of more in revenue. He made one critical mistake that cost his team. Let him go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dksww 484 Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 4 minutes ago, ClarksvilleChief said: Ford did absolutely nothing all game...and for the most part we survived that..until that ONE play..he doesn't pay attention to where he is lining up and it cost his team a trip to the super bowl..I would not pay an employee millions of dollars if he cost me millions of more in revenue. He made one critical mistake that cost his team. Let him go. and then he signs with the Patriots and helps them win the super bowl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClarksvilleChief 193 Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 Just now, dksww said: and then he signs with the Patriots and helps them win the super bowl So be it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liquidfriend 1,151 Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 Ford didn't do anything, Chris Jones barely did anything and Houston didn't do anything because werthers originals refused to change what he does. You can't expect your guys up front to do shit when the QB doesn't have to hang onto the ball. He fucked that chicken the same ol' eay he has always done it and the Patriots will never be stupid enough to take the cheese. They knew he wouldn't change and easily executed arguably the easiest Offensive gameplan they had all year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dksww 484 Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 Just now, ClarksvilleChief said: So be it well then letting him go is stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soonerborn77 276 Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 Sutton also took our crowd out of it since the Pats didn’t need to communicate at the line Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balto 723 Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 You don’t let him go....you tag and trade Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClarksvilleChief 193 Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 4 minutes ago, dksww said: well then letting him go is stupid. So is paying him 100 million..tag and trade if you have to..DO NOT PAY HIM!..He had 2 good years out of 5 or whatever.....not worth the money to HOPE he plays well after getting paid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiefsFoolFan 149 Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 4 minutes ago, soonerborn77 said: Sutton also took our crowd out of it since the Pats didn’t need to communicate at the line You are correct. This tells me all I need to know ... don't you think? We are talking about doing simple things like adjusting your defense at the line so the offense cannot audible. Again, Sutton is playing checkers while they were playing chess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hankstromboli 25 Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 10 minutes ago, soonerborn77 said: Sutton also took our crowd out of it since the Pats didn’t need to communicate at the line I almost sh$t my pants when I heard Brady say crowd didn't affect him b/c of our play calling not changing much. Absolute shame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dksww 484 Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 1 minute ago, ClarksvilleChief said: So is paying him 100 million..tag and trade if you have to..DO NOT PAY HIM!..He had 2 good years out of 5 or whatever.....not worth the money to HOPE he plays well after getting paid. No one ever said pay him a 100 million dollars. I get your upset over the loss, but there's not need to go full retard today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClarksvilleChief 193 Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 4 minutes ago, dksww said: No one ever said pay him a 100 million dollars. I get your upset over the loss, but there's not need to go full retard today. Of course he's not gonna ask for that much..but, he will want to be paid like a TOP pass rusher..he doesn't deserve that..we gave Houston a huge contract..how has that turned out? Houston has been hurt and hasn't been the same since. Ford it not worth the money. Tag and Trade him to some other team that wants and can pay him what he wants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClarksvilleChief 193 Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 https://www.yahoo.com/sports/dee-fords-brutal-offsides-penalty-overturned-int-will-go-sad-chiefs-lore-044412308.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dksww 484 Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 14 minutes ago, ClarksvilleChief said: Of course he's not gonna ask for that much..but, he will want to be paid like a TOP pass rusher..he doesn't deserve that..we gave Houston a huge contract..how has that turned out? Houston has been hurt and hasn't been the same since. Ford it not worth the money. Tag and Trade him to some other team that wants and can pay him what he wants. lol i always love the "this guy's not worth the $/sucks but trade him to another team" takes. if he's not that good and not worth the $, then who's going to trade for him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fmbl2187 2,279 Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 10 hours ago, Lamardirts said: He is 6'7" 290......He is the prototypical 4-3 end. What are you talking about? Maybe he can't learn? I know a lot of people who are big but have shitty memories and trouble learning new tricks. There is a reason he didn't get snaps this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fmbl2187 2,279 Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 So many here seem to overreact, though it is understandable after a championship loss. If we had won the coin toss, not a single poster here would be grumbling about Dee Ford. He had an exceptional year, and the front office needs to negotiate accordingly while still keeping the money needed to improve the overall team, and that is what they will try to do. We have more armchair GM's in here than we do knowledgeable former football players, whether high school or college. One thing that is obvious to us all is that Sutton is a crash test dummy trying to be a defensive coordinator in a league that has offensive coordinators that have moved into the 21st century. He is not getting the best out of the player combinations he has. As for the game, we had plenty enough defense to win anyway until they were gassed. Brady could tell when they were gassed and made his play calls according to it, unleashing Gronk as a receiver. There was the usual handful of outrageously bad calls by the refs that affects every team (ask the Saints). We have to admit also that Mahomes is not yet what he will be. He doesn't pick his targets on the basis of getting what he needs, but too often getting what he wants. What he wants are often passes that are not quite perfect enough to complete against great CB's. He needs to remember the short game against certain kinds of defenses. Not all of his choices were Reid-called plays. He uses progressions and picks the splashy option too often, like a lot of first year starters. He is amazing and will learn, but he didn't last night and we have to wait for another chance. We won't have to wait long. Even with that, it basically was a outcome based on who wins a coin toss, not based on an aggressive pass rusher with a desperate mindset to stop Brady and win the game lining up two inches too far with an exhausted and cold brain after playing nearly every snap for three hours. Give Dee Ford a break, for godsakes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thegoatee 1,785 Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 A year ago, would anyone have been willing to pay Dee Ford elite pass rush money? Unless I am mistaken, most had written him off as a bust. I would absolutely not give him a long term deal. I don’t think he deserves a ton of blame for the overall outcome, but his mistake was huge. We need to completely retool this defense, and by 2020, that means Ford, Houston, Berry, etc. need to be gone. All these high priced guys who haven’t made the investment worthwhile. If Sutton is still around, nothing will matter though... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balto 723 Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 1 hour ago, sith13 said: I think edge rushers are way too overrated in the NFL. When was the last time a team played in the SB with 10+ sack guy playing outside (4-3DE or 3-4OLB)? I know it didn't happen in the last 3 years and could be longer. Edge guys need to be able to do it all. Otherwise elite QBs rip defenses apart when it matters. Manning did it to us when Houston and Hali has been terrorizing the NFL and now Brady is repeating that. Sacks are always nice to have but won't ever come up when the QB is taking 2 seconds to throw, we need guys that can cover the underneath against receivers like Edelman or HBs when needed and more importantly every single guy in the front 7 must be good against the run. Find LBs that can do it all (cover, stop the run, rush the pass) and road to the SB gets much easier. I do agree that edge guys are overrated but I think it more points to this being a TEAM sport. Without some pressure from said edge guys it will not matter how good of coverage guys you have because they QB can take his time. Getting pressure even if they don’t get a sack allows a defense to at least have a chance of making a play because the QB had to rush his pass. You can say, well the team can just run quick pass plays and march down the field to take even the best edge rushers out of the game and could do blah blah blah BUT all of that comes down scheme and coaching adjustments which we all can agree we lack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mloe68 1,521 Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 Isn’t it possible Brady knew he had free play there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mloe68 1,521 Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 3 hours ago, dksww said: It's not all Bob Sutton but you're talking about a 31st ranked defense letting go a top 3 pass rusher because of one play. I understand you're mad the Chiefs lost, but just stop for a minute. I never said give Dee Ford big money. IMO, they should use the FT on him and make him put together back to back seasons like this while also improving against the run. The FT is not huge money and it keeps the Chiefs in control of him. As far as Sutton goes, he has to be held accountable because this defense does not have trash players everywhere. Jones, Houston, Ford, Hitchens, Nelson, Fuller, Ward, Berry and even Sorenson are enough to build a top 15 defense out of and Sutton couldn't do anything. Tag Ford. Every team needs a pass rusher like him but his prior back issues would keep me from long term deal. I’d let Justin Houston walk and make this offseason about building a different type of defense around youth and speed at linebacker and in secondary. More bulk up front. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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