Spags the favorite to replace Werthers? (Schefter)

[Iluvhouse24 1,808]

7 minutes ago, liquidfriend said:

Spags is 100% a hire of Andy refusing to do anything creative.

You of all people. He who coined the term "Werthers"... Is down on the Spags hire. You really think hes in the same class of coach as Sutton?

[liquidfriend 1,151]

10 minutes ago, Iluvhouse24 said:

You of all people. He who coined the term "Werthers"... Is down on the Spags hire. You really think hes in the same class of coach as Sutton?

Awfully close.  It's only a hire that will happen because Andy refuses to hire anyone he doesn't know.

The dude is about to hire the Coordinator that oversaw the Defense that gave up the most yards in NFL HISTORY because he refuses to take a chance.  That says everything there needs to be said.

[reesebobby 5,663]

18 minutes ago, dksww said:

Here's another view point of hiring Spags:

 

 

I guess it depends on what ranking you use.  That's using scoring defense.  If you use total defense, his numbers are worse. 

[dksww 484]

1 minute ago, reesebobby said:

I guess it depends on what ranking you use.  That's using scoring defense.  If you use total defense, his numbers are worse. 

Just trying to add more context.  I'm not thrilled by it, but open to all information on it.

[reesebobby 5,663]

2 minutes ago, dksww said:

Just trying to add more context.  I'm not thrilled by it, but open to all information on it.

I'm not complaining.  I just think most people think of yardage when ranking defenses unless otherwise noted.  I think we've all had enough bend but don't break to last a lifetime.  Exactly half of his DC seasons he has finished 31 or 32.  I don't know what to make of that, but it scares me a little. 

[Mloe68 1,521]

41 minutes ago, liquidfriend said:

It's not 2008 anymore. 

His last tenure with the Giants was pure bend but don't break with barely any adjustments.  He's Bob Sutton with a different alignment.

Umm. No. In 2016 the Giants had the number two defense in the NFL, were the number 2 rush defense,  had more INTs than TDs allowed passing and gave up the 5th fewest first downs in the NFL. That was his last full season as DC before the mess than ensued in 2017 which had him elevated to head coach the last month of the season. You can certainly point to that season if you want to discount Spags ability. Because the entire team imploded. But Spags built anything but a bend don't break defense his second season in NY as the numbers clearly show.  

[Iluvhouse24 1,808]

11 minutes ago, liquidfriend said:

Awfully close.  It's only a hire that will happen because Andy refuses to hire anyone he doesn't know.

The dude is about to hire the Coordinator that oversaw the Defense that gave up the most yards in NFL HISTORY because he refuses to take a chance.  That says everything there needs to be said.

I guess you have a point. I just dont think theres anyway that Werthers would ever be capable of scheming and playcalling a unit good enough to pummel an undefeated Brady team in a SB. I think hes a clear step up.

Plus I like the aggressive nature of his playcalling. Even if his units suck, at least he tries to go sfter the QB instead of letting opposing offenses dictate the game.

[Iluvhouse24 1,808]

2 minutes ago, Mloe68 said:

Umm. No. In 2016 the Giants had the number two defense in the NFL, were the number 2 rush defense,  had more INTs than TDs allowed passing and gave up the 5th fewest first downs in the NFL. That was his last full season as DC before the mess than ensued in 2017 which had him elevated to head coach the last month of the season. You can certainly point to that season if you want to discount Spags ability. Because the entire team imploded. But Spags built anything but a bend don't break defense his second season in NY as the numbers clearly show.  

Get out of here with your facts Mike!

[liquidfriend 1,151]

9 minutes ago, Mloe68 said:

Umm. No. In 2016 the Giants had the number two defense in the NFL, were the number 2 rush defense,  had more INTs than TDs allowed passing and gave up the 5th fewest first downs in the NFL. That was his last full season as DC before the mess than ensued in 2017 which had him elevated to head coach the last month of the season. You can certainly point to that season if you want to discount Spags ability. Because the entire team imploded. But Spags built anything but a bend don't break defense his second season in NY as the numbers clearly show.  

Spags was blitzing less than 20% of the time with the Giants.  It's largely why Shurmur was quick to fire him to get Bettcher.

Those stats were a by product of the talent he had inherited with a DL of Vernon, Hankins, Harrison, JPP.  A solid LB group, an up and coming Collins and 2 high end corners.

As of last check, the Chiefs have a good DT that may or may not translate over and a promising young corner.  Neat.

[Lamardirts 2,121]

26 minutes ago, Balto said:

Ok then you trade him NOT cut him!  Would cost his new team $15M

It would cost his new team 21 million.

[VIChiefsFan 262]

28 minutes ago, liquidfriend said:

Spags is 100% a hire of Andy refusing to do anything creative.

I am quite certain that Andy does not want to spend one second thinking about the defence.  He wants someone who can come in and completely handle the defensive side of the ball. I think this is why he was so reluctant to fire Sutton, he didn't want the headache of a new DC coming.  We aren't going to get some young gun coming in who is going to need managing and help. We are going to get someone who can come in, take care of the D, and let Andy focus on the offence.

[liquidfriend 1,151]

4 minutes ago, VIChiefsFan said:

I am quite certain that Andy does not want to spend one second thinking about the defence.  He wants someone who can come in and completely handle the defensive side of the ball. I think this is why he was so reluctant to fire Sutton, he didn't want the headache of a new DC coming.  We aren't going to get some young gun coming in who is going to need managing and help. We are going to get someone who can come in, take care of the D, and let Andy focus on the offence.

I have long said that's exactly what he wanted to do, but you can hire established guys that can run the Defense without making a shitty hire. 

[Mloe68 1,521]

6 minutes ago, liquidfriend said:

Spags was blitzing less than 20% of the time with the Giants.  It's largely why Shurmur was quick to fire him to get Bettcher.

Those stats were a by product of the talent he had inherited with a DL of Vernon, Hankins, Harrison, JPP.  A solid LB group, an up and coming Collins and 2 high end corners.

As of last check, the Chiefs have a good DT that may or may not translate over and a promising young corner.  Neat.

Bend don’t break defenses don’t give up the 5th fewest first downs. That simple. Spags did a phenomenal job building an elite defense his last full season as DC. His defenses have also only had one bad game in six playoff tries including the best defensive effort in Super Bowl history. 

 

[liquidfriend 1,151]

4 minutes ago, Mloe68 said:

Bend don’t break defenses don’t give up the 5th fewest first downs. That simple. Spags did a phenomenal job building an elite defense his last full season as DC. His defenses have also only had one bad game in six playoff tries including the best defensive effort in Super Bowl history. 

 

I don't think you're keying in to something.  That's a talent thing, not scheme.

Spags in 2008 and 2016-2017 were two different things.  Glad I could help you.

[Lamardirts 2,121]

I wonder who you guys would prefer then?   Don't get give us some blanket response but rather a name or two.   Pretty easy to nitpick guys but never express you would hire.   

[liquidfriend 1,151]

Look around, it's already been expressed.

Chris Hewitt, Mike Nolan, Dennis Allen (is a FA) and Rex Ryan are all better choices.  I would even say that I'd talk to Joe Woods as Rat Jr. has let his asst's talk to other teams.  Would even float a trade offer to Dallas for Kris Richard. 

[moons314 2,463]

I’m less concerned about who than I am the what.  By that I mean I don’t really give a shit who it is as long as they are aggressive. I can’t stand giving up a ton of yards underneath because we’re playing an 8 man shell and only rushing three. I can live with giving up a 75 yard td pass every now and then because the opposing offense executed perfectly, picked up a blitz and made us pay.  That’s a lot more preferable to playing the feeble bend but don’t break crap. A defense that creates big plays is going to give up some big plays, and I can live with that.  No rah rah bullshit, just line up and hit them in the mouth. 

[Mloe68 1,521]

1 hour ago, liquidfriend said:

I don't think you're keying in to something.  That's a talent thing, not scheme.

Spags in 2008 and 2016-2017 were two different things.  Glad I could help you.

Your backtracking here saying his scheme was bend don’t break, but since numbers don’t back that up, it’s talent. Novel concept by the way to suggest talent matters. 

[qnet 1,158]

I prefered Rex Ryan but I'm willing to give Spags a chance. There's really nothing else we as fans can do. 

[liquidfriend 1,151]

12 minutes ago, Mloe68 said:

Your backtracking here saying his scheme was bend don’t break, but since numbers don’t back that up, it’s talent. Novel concept by the way to suggest talent matters. 

I posted actual numbers that backed up what I said.  Your numbers don't dispel that line at all. 

Romeo Crennel was the king of bend but don't break and his numbers were fine.  What's your point?

[Mloe68 1,521]

1 minute ago, liquidfriend said:

I posted actual numbers that backed up what I said.  Your numbers don't dispel that line at all. 

If you don't think allowing the 5th least first downs isn't a tell tale sign your defense is not a bend don't break concept, I don't know what to tell you. 

[liquidfriend 1,151]

10 minutes ago, Mloe68 said:

If you don't think allowing the 5th least first downs isn't a tell tale sign your defense is not a bend don't break concept, I don't know what to tell you. 

I don't know what to tell you because bend but don't break isn't a clear reflection on first downs allowed.  Having a loaded DL and secondary can mask your flaws.  Anything else you need explained?

Werthers could run the bend but don't break because he had talent like DJ, Eric Berry, Dontari Poe, Houston+Hali and others to mask him schematic flaws. 

[Docbarnabee 225]

My question is why anyone is a favorite at this point. If I were Andy Reid I would call five or 6 guys, tell them to put together a plan on what they would do to fix the Defense, have them make their pitch, then base his decision on that and how the interaction goes in the interview and the viability of their plan. 

[reesebobby 5,663]

I keep going back to his recent defensive coordinator stats.  There are too many awful years in there to make me completely comfortable.  I'm not going to vomit if we hire him, I just hope we consider someone like Hewitt and make sure we are not just hiring a big name has been.  I don't know for sure that he is a has been.  I just want to make sure it's a good hire because we are really slow to get rid of them and I don't want 5 years of someone that we are unhappy with.  

[Iluvhouse24 1,808]

4 minutes ago, Docbarnabee said:

My question is why anyone is a favorite at this point. If I were Andy Reid I would call five or 6 guys, tell them to put together a plan on what they would do to fix the Defense, have them make their pitch, then base his decision on that and how the interaction goes in the interview and the viability of their plan. 

Honestly I think its time. The senior bowl practices are going on as we speak. If they are changing base scheme they need to know what players they are looking at more closely while scouting even today.