Balto 723 Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 15 hours ago, azchief21 said: Here I forgot something else In 2012, the Saints allowed the most yards for a season of any defense in NFL history en route to finishing 7–9 and missing the playoffs for the first time in four years. Soon after Payton's suspension ended, Spagnuolo was fired on January 24, 2013.[ Again you bring up the Saints but forget the two years he spent with the Ravens and top 10 D's. I get you want to point out ALL the negative but most people look at it better when you present BOTH the negative and positive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Handswarmer 645 Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 13 hours ago, Mloe68 said: I apologize for droning on here but this is my long take on him. He worked under the great Jim Johnson in Philly (one of the best coordinators in NFL history who has a great coaching tree) and took his first DC job in NY where he had two great seasons including perhaps the best game plan in Super Bowl history to take down the Patriots. That’s why he got the head coaching gig in St Louis and we’ve seen many coordinators go through some real struggles around such failed ventures. He went to New Orleans right after that as a favor to Sean Peyton and inherited a defense that wasn’t a fit and he couldn’t control. The Saints were a mess that year and you can write that off completely in my opinion. He then had a few years on the Ravens staff before getting another run in NY where he inherited a huge mess that didn’t improve his first year But his second year in NY he turns this bottom feeder group into the number TWO defense in the NFL! That entire team imploded the next year and he ended up having to coach the whole team the last six weeks I’m sorry I just again don’t see that as tenable for anyone. And that brings us to now So to me he’s had 4 years as a coordinator where his head coach wasn’t fired or suspended leaving him with way more than just the defense to worry about. And in those 4 seasons as only a DC, he’s had 3 highly successful defenses He’s been DC for six playoff games and given up more than 23 points once. This is the way I looked at it long before we ever hired him. He’s no guru but he brings a fun attacking system and has a proven ability to develop defensive lines especially. If he or Andy are smart here he will bring in a few young innovative guys with him. But this is very much in question. Maybe I’m way off but I always thought this was a really good fit He was here in Baltimore because of the Harbs/Reid connection. He was seriously considered for DC here if and when Dean Pees retired.....but on defense the Ravens promote from within. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azchief21 5,278 Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 1 minute ago, Balto said: Again you bring up the Saints but forget the two years he spent with the Ravens and top 10 D's. I get you want to point out ALL the negative but most people look at it better when you present BOTH the negative and positive. Look at my previous post. I mentioned his good season in the last decade and the couple before then. He was never a DC in BALT. I think he went there to try to clean up his career after the NO fiasco. He then went to NY and had 2 horrible seasons wrapped around a good one. So from what I gather from your posts, when his defenses were good, he's awesome but when they were horrible it was not his fault, it was everything around him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CranjisMcbasketball 781 Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 34 minutes ago, Iluvhouse24 said: Breeland Speaks needs to be written off as a failure? Seriously? Man I hope you arent a supervisor or owner at your place of employment. Your employees wouldnt even be around long enough to claim unemployment before you fired them. If you can’t recognize he looks like he is moving through freshly poured concrete you don’t have an eye for athletic evaluation. i have a caveat that it may not be his fault, if the coaching staff is making him put on weight they are to fault. the problem is there is a fundamental problem with how they are selecting pass rushers recently. This crap where they pick players that need multiple years of development is so stupid, I don’t even care if those players develop into studs in year 5. They are choosing to waste the cheap salary years of these players from an on field production standpoint and place those cheap years into teaching. by the time the players become good they are free agency eligible, and the chiefs essentially are paying to develop players for other teams. speaks is a symbol of this flawed methodology, and i would rather they admit mistakes rather than change a defensive philosophy to make their picks look better. its more a hatred of management than the actual player at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CranjisMcbasketball 781 Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 Duplicate post by mistake Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mloe68 1,521 Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 9 minutes ago, CranjisMcbasketball said: If you can’t recognize he looks like he is moving through freshly poured concrete you don’t have an eye for athletic evaluation. i have a caveat that it may not be his fault, if the coaching staff is making him put on weight they are to fault. the problem is there is a fundamental problem with how they are selecting pass rushers recently. This crap where they pick players that need multiple years of development is so stupid, I don’t even care if those players develop into studs in year 5. They are choosing to waste the cheap salary years of these players from an on field production standpoint and place those cheap years into teaching. by the time the players become good they are free agency eligible, and the chiefs essentially are paying to develop players for other teams. speaks is a symbol of this flawed methodology, and i would rather they admit mistakes rather than change a defensive philosophy to make their picks look better. its more a hatred of management than the actual player at this point. Funny thing is Speaks was evaluated after the combine as one of the most athletic defensive linemen in the draft. I was just reading an evaluation of one of the top DL this year and they actually compared him to Speaks (I’d have to look up who that is). Completely different animal when they asked him to play in space as an OLB. It was almost laughable watching him try to cover RBs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calichief 3,024 Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 I’d relax a little until you see a couple games. it can’t be worse. its certainly going to be better. im sure he’s learned from mistakes. im sure being a head coach taught him some things. he took down Brady and has had some competent stints as a coach. he will be able to be the head coach of the entire defense. all we need to be is average with our qb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CranjisMcbasketball 781 Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 17 minutes ago, Calichief said: I’d relax a little until you see a couple games. it can’t be worse. its certainly going to be better. im sure he’s learned from mistakes. im sure being a head coach taught him some things. he took down Brady and has had some competent stints as a coach. he will be able to be the head coach of the entire defense. all we need to be is average with our qb. Agreed, being positive is how I should be. my issue is i feel like next year is our best superbowl chance, and there is a 3 more season window of excellent chances. i really do not want to waste anymore years of mahomes being on a cheap contract. wasted year one having him sit behind alex (im sure he learned how to be a pro but should have been unleashed in the playoffs) wasted year two with suttons incompetence i am praying no more years are wasted, that’s why this hire is so important. that being said i have so much faith in mahomes I believe he will overcome most all bad decisions. as negative as i can be on here i would venture to say i have been, and still am, more positive about mahomes than probably anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mloe68 1,521 Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 21 minutes ago, azchief21 said: Look at my previous post. I mentioned his good season in the last decade and the couple before then. He was never a DC in BALT. I think he went there to try to clean up his career after the NO fiasco. He then went to NY and had 2 horrible seasons wrapped around a good one. So from what I gather from your posts, when his defenses were good, he's awesome but when they were horrible it was not his fault, it was everything around him? I see Spags as a guy who’s only had two real stints as a DC where he had time to implement his system and get some key players that fit that system in place. In both cases he inherited 30th ranked defenses and in both cases he turned them into a top 5 defense by year two. I look at all the key guys who worked under Jim Johnson and see nearly all of them have fostered Super Bowl defenses in their next stop. To me this guy was just an unreal mentor and getting a piece of that is a good thing. Correct me if I’m wrong here but you see everything that happened in between there as a head coach and one brutal year in extraordinary circumstances in New Orleans and his last season in NY where he ended up as head coach as major red flags and focus as such on that. It’s just a matter of opinion and perspective here is all. I can see both sides. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azchief21 5,278 Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 3 minutes ago, Mloe68 said: I see Spags as a guy who’s only had two real stints as a DC where he had time to implement his system and get some key players that fit that system in place. In both cases he inherited 30th ranked defenses and in both cases he turned them into a top 5 defense by year two. I look at all the key guys who worked under Jim Johnson and see nearly all of them have fostered Super Bowl defenses in their next stop. To me this guy was just an unreal mentor and getting a piece of that is a good thing. Correct me if I’m wrong here but you see everything that happened in between there as a head coach and one brutal year in extraordinary circumstances in New Orleans and his last season in NY where he ended up as head coach as major red flags and focus as such on that. It’s just a matter of opinion and perspective here is all. I can see both sides. Don't get me wrong, I'm hoping the guy comes in here and kicks ass. We'll see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calichief 3,024 Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 Players are on notice too. I think improvement is inevitable. players weren’t happy with werthers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kkuenn 3,613 Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 http://www.espn.com/blog/kansas-city-chiefs/post/_/id/26119/chiefs-hired-steve-spagnuolo-so-patrick-mahomes-can-win-now KANSAS CITY, Mo. -- Now that Steve Spagnuolo has been hired as the new coordinator, the Kansas City Chiefs' defense needs to improve in 2019. Not by the playoffs or even midseason. The Chiefs need to be better without the ball from Day 1. That's a reasonable expectation for Spagnuolo, making him a smart hire by Chiefs coach Andy Reid. Spagnuolo, 59, is a veteran coach, having been an NFL coordinator for six seasons with two different teams, and a head coach for the Rams for three years. He is also someone Reid can trust, as Spagnuolo was an assistant for him for eight years with the Eagles. Steve Spagnuolo NFL ExperienceYEARSTEAMPOSITION'99-00EaglesDefensive asst.'01-03EaglesDefensive backs'04-06EaglesLinebackers'07-08GiantsDefensive coordinator'09-11RamsHead coach'12SaintsDefensive coordinator'13RavensSr. defensive asst.'14RavensSecondary'15-17GiantsDefensive coordinator'17*GiantsInterim head coach*-four games Spagnuolo's New York Giants defense famously helped defeat an unbeaten New England Patriots team at Super Bowl XLII. The combination of a veteran defensive coach and someone who is familiar to Reid should allow the Chiefs to get better immediately. "Steve is a bright defensive mind with a lot of coaching experience and success in our league," Reid said in a statement released by the Chiefs. "I know him well from our time together in Philadelphia and I feel that his leadership skills and teaching abilities, combined with his scheme, will be a great fit for our team as we move forward." That's important because the Chiefs don't have a minute to waste. They already threw away one season of the high-scoring Patrick Mahomes era because of a faulty defense and can't afford to ruin any more. Kansas City finished 31st in total defense this season, in contrast to the offense, which finished No. 1 overall in the NFL. The Chiefs scored at least 28 points in each of their five losses this season, including games in which they scored 51 and 40 points. That's why it was a good move for Reid to fire Bob Sutton, the Chiefs' defensive coordinator for the past six seasons. The Chiefs spent a considerable amount of resources last season to fix their defense, including the free-agent signings of linebacker Anthony Hitchens and lineman Xavier Williams and the drafting of defensive players with their first five picks. More Chiefs • Spagnuolo named defensive coordinator • Ending doesn't diminish Ford's breakout • Season ends with Mahomes on sideline The Chiefs got worse on defense, dropping from middle of the NFL pack in terms of points allowed to the bottom 10. Things came to a head during an ugly defensive performance against the Patriots in the AFC Championship Game, a game the Chiefs lost 37-31 in overtime. Maybe if the Chiefs had retained Sutton they would have improved on defense next season anyway, depending on the player moves they make. But the defense was trending downward, and the Chiefs couldn't take what would -- at this point -- amount to a leap of faith that he could turn things around. By the same token, the Chiefs need to be right on Spagnuolo. While Mahomes is going to be a force for many years, he will be on a relatively inexpensive contract for only another year or two. The Chiefs appear to have a good thing going with their pass-catchers, too, in Tyreek Hill, Travis Kelce and Sammy Watkins, but injury and age have a way of ruining plans, often without warning. So the Chiefs need to approach 2019 as their window to win a Super Bowl. They don't have to sacrifice 2020 and beyond, but they must make a reasonable amount of defensive improvement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thegoatee 1,785 Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 I am really curious who wanted to draft Speaks and Kpass and put them at OLB? Was it Sutton? Kpass is never on the field so we don’t know about him. Speaks was entirely too large and slow to be an OLB. Sutton’s scheme rarely let guys play to their strengths. I thought originally, for example, that we were a bump and run jam them at the line man coverage scheme. Yet we constantly had CBs playing way off the WRs. I think Sutton couldn’t scheme and couldn’t put guys in position to do what they do best. Hence all the Ford and Houston coverage stupidity on WRs. I am all for letting Spags come in, change everything, and cut those who are not going to work. The GM needs to fix Houston and Berry by 2020 and not empty our pockets on Ford. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liquidfriend 1,151 Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 Sutton was in charge of placing players into positions, so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dksww 484 Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 Do we know how many years Spags got singed for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biggjliv4 1,292 Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 1 minute ago, dksww said: Do we know how many years Spags got singed for? It won't matter I don't see read firing him for at least 4 to 5 years even if the D is bad. First 2 years will be written off to scheme/talent/fit then 3rd year be expectations minimum. By the time it's an "issue" Andy will be close to retiring. I'm guessing this is his last DC hire. Hope it's the right one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mloe68 1,521 Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 9 minutes ago, Biggjliv4 said: It won't matter I don't see read firing him for at least 4 to 5 years even if the D is bad. First 2 years will be written off to scheme/talent/fit then 3rd year be expectations minimum. By the time it's an "issue" Andy will be close to retiring. I'm guessing this is his last DC hire. Hope it's the right one Both stints as DC Spags had the defenses going from 30th to top 5 in year two. This isn't some long term project. Andy knows his best chance to hoist a Lombardi is the next 3 years (which is exactly how long Reids contract lasts) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liquidfriend 1,151 Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 Well either Spags works out for Andy or the Chiefs will probably be HC shopping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer 8,694 Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 11 minutes ago, Mloe68 said: Both stints as DC Spags had the defenses going from 30th to top 5 in year two. This isn't some long term project. Andy knows his best chance to hoist a Lombardi is the next 3 years (which is exactly how long Reids contract lasts) and as long as the Chiefs have Mahomes cheap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thegoatee 1,785 Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 I’d say no coach is safe if they perform horribly and fans get mad enough. Save Hue Jackson... Realistically, you would think he gets a minimum of 2 years. If they suck after year 2, he could be gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calichief 3,024 Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 29 minutes ago, liquidfriend said: Well either Spags works out for Andy or the Chiefs will probably be HC shopping. No doubt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetlord 10,210 Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 5 hours ago, Iluvhouse24 said: Breeland Speaks needs to be written off as a failure? Seriously? Man I hope you arent a supervisor or owner at your place of employment. Your employees wouldnt even be around long enough to claim unemployment before you fired them. Agree. By those standards, DJ was a failure early in his career. Same for Ford, Fisher, and a host of others. Some come in and play immediately such as Peters or Poe. Most take some time. One of my complaints with Sutton, among many, was that he didn't get the new guys experience, coaching, or something that allowed them to succeed. Hope that changes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mloe68 1,521 Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 19 minutes ago, liquidfriend said: Well either Spags works out for Andy or the Chiefs will probably be HC shopping. Andy has a chance to build a true dominant type team and ride off into the sunset as a first ballot HOFer if Spags can deliver. That three year window really looms large to me though as Andy's time to get this done. He can probably write his own ticket either way with the consistency he's brought here, but realistically if we haven't hoisted the Lombardi by then, it will be time for a change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balto 723 Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 1 hour ago, Biggjliv4 said: It won't matter I don't see read firing him for at least 4 to 5 years even if the D is bad. First 2 years will be written off to scheme/talent/fit then 3rd year be expectations minimum. By the time it's an "issue" Andy will be close to retiring. I'm guessing this is his last DC hire. Hope it's the right one I hope this time next year and every year going forward we are discussing how well Spags has done and that we hope he doesn’t leave for a HC job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kkuenn 3,613 Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 42 minutes ago, Balto said: I hope this time next year and every year going forward we are discussing how well Spags has done and that we hope he doesn’t leave for a HC job. Hell we should improve to 20-22 range alone being aggressive and with a new DC that can adjust. Higher of he is better than advertised. If we get around 15th or si we will be a force Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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