moons314 2,463 Posted January 26, 2019 Share Posted January 26, 2019 49 minutes ago, Mloe68 said: Again DT was essentially benched in his AFC Title game as the Bills ran right at him and rushed for almost 250 yards. And this is probably a big reason it took him so long to get into the Hall. I think we’d both agree a one game sample size for this type of talent wasn’t enough. I remember that well, and the bills had a great gameplan that’s been utilized over the years against pass rushers. It’s no secret that the key to neutralizing a speed rusher is to run right at them, that’s been a mainstay for decades. The bills didn’t want 58 running down the plays from the backside with his speed, so they would go right at him so there was nothing for him to run down. Teams don’t have to do that against Ford because he’s no threat in run defense, so they don’t even gameplan around him like they did Thomas. This isn’t me saying Thomas was great against the run, because he wasn’t , but he was way more competent in that department than Ford. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moons314 2,463 Posted January 26, 2019 Share Posted January 26, 2019 2 hours ago, Palangi said: I'm not arguing. DT is the reason I am a chiefs fan. Favorite player all time. And Dee Ford can't hold his jock strap. But the game is different and raw numbers don't tell a full story. RPO wasn't apart of the game when DT played. Offenses are reading the end. Especially guys like Ford who are lighting quick with their get off. They lose out on tackles as they are the read option. I’m pretty sure the rpo is more about inside coverage than the end. If the slant is there it’s an easy 8 yards every snap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palangi 788 Posted January 26, 2019 Share Posted January 26, 2019 17 minutes ago, moons314 said: I’m pretty sure the rpo is more about inside coverage than the end. If the slant is there it’s an easy 8 yards every snap. It can be either. You can read through the end to the Linebacker. But still reading the end for the hand off Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iluvhouse24 1,808 Posted January 27, 2019 Author Share Posted January 27, 2019 2 hours ago, reesebobby said: If he’s on the team that’s the only place you could put him in a 4-3. Would you pay him elite 3-4 edge rusher money to play DE in a 4-3? I’m not down on ford or saying Thomas was a great run stopper. But between the two there’s no question in my mind. who was better at it. And you can come up with lots of reasons why. But what it seems to boil down to is that Ford just isn’t good at open field tackling and isn’t that interested in it. Not long term, no. But for this year of course I would. Pass rushers with his ability at his age arent real prevalent. Id like to see what he can do on the franchise tag. He will certainly be motivated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilkie 1,518 Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 Just finished reading a long examination of what the author thought was the solution to the Chiefs ever growing problem of coming up short in the championship game. The short version is the author contends that the Chiefs are not willing to part with their stars. He says that we pay the big bucks for the franchise quarterback and be willing to part with the others in exchange for cap space and draft picks. Specifically this year according to this guy we part ways with both Houston and Ford. We have to keep Barry. We have to find a more durable runningback than Williams but Ware and West are gone. Renegotiate Fisher and Schwartz. Give KPass a chance in training camp and if he can't cut it, cut him. Store draft picks. They are cheaper than known commodities. Renegotiate contracts with Hill and Jones now. He says that the problem with the Dick Vermeil Chiefs is they had two good years. And then everybody got old at once. By not replenishing young players every year, we will go downhill and fast, This, according to the author, is why Patriots continue to dominate. They say goodbye to Dion Branch after his best year. He said that the Ravens and Steelers are just now learning this lesson and the Chiefs can do so if they have the stomach to cut some of their most productive players. In other words, spend the money on upgrading the draft committee. Don't know how I feel about this, but it is an alternative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mloe68 1,521 Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 5 minutes ago, wilkie said: Just finished reading a long examination of what the author thought was the solution to the Chiefs ever growing problem of coming up short in the championship game. The short version is the author contends that the Chiefs are not willing to part with their stars. He says that we pay the big bucks for the franchise quarterback and be willing to part with the others in exchange for cap space and draft picks. Specifically this year according to this guy we part ways with both Houston and Ford. We have to keep Barry. We have to find a more durable runningback than Williams but Ware and West are gone. Renegotiate Fisher and Schwartz. Give KPass a chance in training camp and if he can't cut it, cut him. Store draft picks. They are cheaper than known commodities. Renegotiate contracts with Hill and Jones now. He says that the problem with the Dick Vermeil Chiefs is they had two good years. And then everybody got old at once. By not replenishing young players every year, we will go downhill and fast, This, according to the author, is why Patriots continue to dominate. They say goodbye to Dion Branch after his best year. He said that the Ravens and Steelers are just now learning this lesson and the Chiefs can do so if they have the stomach to cut some of their most productive players. In other words, spend the money on upgrading the draft committee. Don't know how I feel about this, but it is an alternative. The Patriots philosophy is not to overpay anyone, ever. If a player is nearing the end of a contract that guy ends up on the trading block if he won't work with the team on a contract. And of course they completely circumvent the salary cap with Tom Brady. The Chiefs problem with losing in AFC Championship games is that we almost never get there. The last time we did we had an elite QB on his last leg. It's no coincidence we never went back without any elite QBs. Now we've got an elite QB and are instantly back there again. History says we will now have multiple trips to the AFC Title game with Mahomes. But we need Spags and Veach in tandem to build a true complimentary defense that will allow us to expect, rather than hope to get beyond that point and finally hoist the Lombardi again. I'm personally very optimistic as again we far exceeded my expectations in 2018 and Andy Reid appears ready to make all the tough choices to make it happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kkuenn 3,613 Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 Well you can continue to develop as you go along but you need to hit on those picks too. Bad drafts a couple years in a row will kill this plan and Vermeil never drafted worth a shit. I think you can go get some FA to really get good depth and competition but we dont need to spend 100 million o one player either If you can trade for a good talent say like Ramsey and sign hin to a good deal then thet is better than a draft pick that may not pan out. He is young and we would have a hole filled where we can look at developing it later on in other drafts too. There has to be a a balance as you can look at Green Bay who lives off drafts only and see how they are hurting too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biggjliv4 1,292 Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 1 hour ago, kkuenn said: Well you can continue to develop as you go along but you need to hit on those picks too. Bad drafts a couple years in a row will kill this plan and Vermeil never drafted worth a shit. I think you can go get some FA to really get good depth and competition but we dont need to spend 100 million o one player either If you can trade for a good talent say like Ramsey and sign hin to a good deal then thet is better than a draft pick that may not pan out. He is young and we would have a hole filled where we can look at developing it later on in other drafts too. There has to be a a balance as you can look at Green Bay who lives off drafts only and see how they are hurting too. You can trade for Ramsey, but you are not going to sign him for a good deal. He will demand a record contact just like every high end talent off their rookie contact. He will want paid. Every player off a rookie contract wants and deserves to be paid. May be their last contract the way the league is. So why do it? Have to pick your poison. I'd rather sign Hill & Jones and let the others walk. A switch to the 4-3 is going to take time, not just to get players, but to get players to play without thinking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilkie 1,518 Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 1 hour ago, Biggjliv4 said: You can trade for Ramsey, but you are not going to sign him for a good deal. He will demand a record contact just like every high end talent off their rookie contact. He will want paid. Every player off a rookie contract wants and deserves to be paid. May be their last contract the way the league is. So why do it? Have to pick your poison. I'd rather sign Hill & Jones and let the others walk. A switch to the 4-3 is going to take time, not just to get players, but to get players to play without thinking. Switching to 4/3 is going to take time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NChiefsCorner 496 Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 11 hours ago, wilkie said: Switching to 4/3 is going to take time Things don't take time anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FANATIC 852 Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 1 hour ago, NChiefsCorner said: Things don't take time anymore. Exactly. These guys have been playing football most of their lives. See ball and attack. Talent makes quick adjustments. Non talent is bench material. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KC Warpaint 3,251 Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 14 hours ago, wilkie said: Switching to 4/3 is going to take time sutton way of thinking... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qnet 1,158 Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 18 hours ago, wilkie said: Just finished reading a long examination of what the author thought was the solution to the Chiefs ever growing problem of coming up short in the championship game. The short version is the author contends that the Chiefs are not willing to part with their stars. He says that we pay the big bucks for the franchise quarterback and be willing to part with the others in exchange for cap space and draft picks. Specifically this year according to this guy we part ways with both Houston and Ford. We have to keep Barry. We have to find a more durable runningback than Williams but Ware and West are gone. Renegotiate Fisher and Schwartz. Give KPass a chance in training camp and if he can't cut it, cut him. Store draft picks. They are cheaper than known commodities. Renegotiate contracts with Hill and Jones now. He says that the problem with the Dick Vermeil Chiefs is they had two good years. And then everybody got old at once. By not replenishing young players every year, we will go downhill and fast, This, according to the author, is why Patriots continue to dominate. They say goodbye to Dion Branch after his best year. He said that the Ravens and Steelers are just now learning this lesson and the Chiefs can do so if they have the stomach to cut some of their most productive players. In other words, spend the money on upgrading the draft committee. Don't know how I feel about this, but it is an alternative. I agree with this philosophy. I've always wanted the Chiefs to build through the draft and be smart about who they sign. They've half way done it here and there,, but never like I've fully wanted them to. The DV Chiefs were a patched-together team, with remnants of a an older Chiefs team. The oline was already pretty good and they made it better by adding a few players, such as Roaf and Wiegmann. Herm tried to go young, and build it up, but it was a disaster. Pioli tried to make it Patriots-west. Reid/Dorsey/Veach tried to build it up some aslo and added some depth, and have been the most successful thus far. 18 hours ago, Mloe68 said: I'm personally very optimistic as again we far exceeded my expectations in 2018 and Andy Reid appears ready to make all the tough choices to make it happen. I really hope you're correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sith13 1,746 Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 1 hour ago, KC Warpaint said: sutton way of thinking... If he looks like Sutton and thinks like Sutton 😱 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moons314 2,463 Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 22 hours ago, Mloe68 said: The Patriots philosophy is not to overpay anyone, ever. If a player is nearing the end of a contract that guy ends up on the trading block if he won't work with the team on a contract. And of course they completely circumvent the salary cap with Tom Brady. The Chiefs problem with losing in AFC Championship games is that we almost never get there. The last time we did we had an elite QB on his last leg. It's no coincidence we never went back without any elite QBs. Now we've got an elite QB and are instantly back there again. History says we will now have multiple trips to the AFC Title game with Mahomes. But we need Spags and Veach in tandem to build a true complimentary defense that will allow us to expect, rather than hope to get beyond that point and finally hoist the Lombardi again. I'm personally very optimistic as again we far exceeded my expectations in 2018 and Andy Reid appears ready to make all the tough choices to make it happen. This is where we have the opportunity to replicate that success, if we do it right with the other players. Mahomes is going to make more money off of endorsements than I could spend in 5 lifetimes, and he's a kid who seems to genuinely put winning above all else, so down the road, he seems to me to be the kind of player who will forego some money to help keep the team around him good, similar to what Brady has done. That's not to say Mahomes will be cheap, and his first contract will probably be the biggest in NFL history, but he strikes me as the guy who when he's a seasoned vet who already has a ton of money, winning and the team are going to come first, and he's going to shed a few million in salary here and there in his quest to win multiple championships. In 7 or 8 years I believe it will be the Chiefs circumventing the cap with Mahomes, the same way the Pats have with Brady. The Chiefs are in that rare area, much like the pats, where they can identify which guys care about winning and which care more about money. Guys will go to play with Brady for less just for the chance at a Super Bowl, and I think we're entering that exclusive club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lamardirts 2,121 Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 I just remember Emmanuel Sanders spurning the Chiefs a few years back but we shouldn’t have been surprised. Playing with Manning can essentially earn you millions more because of increased production while playing with Alex Smith (aka the guy who went an entire year without throwing a TE to a we) can actually cost you millions. We have that qb who can make players more money and that even helps us in comp picks and like you said FA coming here for less Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilkie 1,518 Posted January 28, 2019 Share Posted January 28, 2019 7 hours ago, sith13 said: If he looks like Sutton and thinks like Sutton 😱 The fact that Sutton and I look alike is forever his burden to carry, not mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilkie 1,518 Posted January 28, 2019 Share Posted January 28, 2019 The problem with adopting this storing draft picks and saying goodbye to well established Chiefs is, simply, that draft picks we pick up to replace established players are all an unproven commodity. If we have a pretty sucky draft.....and believe me we have had many of those....we can leave ourselves way out on a limb. There is no proven way to do this. The Pats does have a great draft evaluation system and they deal with people strictly on a monetary basis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xen 1,010,220 Posted January 28, 2019 Share Posted January 28, 2019 39 minutes ago, wilkie said: The problem with adopting this storing draft picks and saying goodbye to well established Chiefs is, simply, that draft picks we pick up to replace established players are all an unproven commodity. If we have a pretty sucky draft.....and believe me we have had many of those....we can leave ourselves way out on a limb. There is no proven way to do this. The Pats does have a great draft evaluation system and they deal with people strictly on a monetary basis. Uh the Pat's have blown a shit ton of draft picks just like every team. They have entire shit drafts just like every team. They have Tom Brady and Belicheat though so they can always find just enough free agents chasing a ring to make up for their draft blunders. Plus Belicheat knows the secret to the draft... more draft picks is better than less draft picks. The draft is a crapshoot and the more picks you have the better you'll do over time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lamardirts 2,121 Posted January 28, 2019 Share Posted January 28, 2019 46 minutes ago, xen said: Uh the Pat's have blown a shit ton of draft picks just like every team. They have entire shit drafts just like every team. They have Tom Brady and Belicheat though so they can always find just enough free agents chasing a ring to make up for their draft blunders. Plus Belicheat knows the secret to the draft... more draft picks is better than less draft picks. The draft is a crapshoot and the more picks you have the better you'll do over time. Yeah I agree with this. With Tom and Bill and FA's chasing rings you can mask draft deficiencies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xen 1,010,220 Posted January 28, 2019 Share Posted January 28, 2019 1 minute ago, Lamardirts said: Yeah I agree with this. With Tom and Bill and FA's chasing rings you can mask draft deficiencies. Yeah I only hope we get to that place. Gotta win some superbowls first though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sith13 1,746 Posted January 28, 2019 Share Posted January 28, 2019 2 hours ago, xen said: Yeah I only hope we get to that place. Gotta win some superbowls first though. I think we'll be there as soon as this year if not next. Manning brought that identity to the Broncos and at this point Mahomes looks like he'll do the same. More importantly with the way Mahomes will make a lot of guys look good we'll be seeing a lot players looking for a big pay day coming in to play with Mahomes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reesebobby 5,663 Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 I guess that answers that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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