Spags players coming here?

[oldtimer 8,694]

Just was wondering being that  some coaches often bring players in that they are comfortable with  might be able whether by trade or FA that Spags has had some success with?

[Calichief 3,024]

I hope we get Thomas davis. 

[sith13 1,746]

I'm sure guys that have some good history with Spags will have a priority in the FA for Veach. The easiest way to transition a defense to a new system is having veterans with some experience in that system leading the youngsters. Interestingly some of our recent front 7 picks (KPass, Speaks, DOD) look to be better suited for 4-3 roles so I'm wondering if such a move has been contemplated prior to this season. 

[NChiefsCorner 496]

Safety Landon Collins.

 

Safety: The most important position in Spagnuolo’s defense is the strong safety, or at least in his most previous stint with the New York Giants. Landon Collins was used as a man defender against tight ends, running backs and occasionally wide receivers. He often was cutting, trapping or in a robber role when playing in zone and was a frequent blitzer off the edge or up the middle.

The free safety most often played deep but would kick down to the weak side in man coverage against wide receivers or running backs, which also means that the strong safety has to be comfortable playing deep, including single-high duties.

If Eric Berry is fully healthy he clearly projects well to that strong safety role with his ability in man, underneath zones, deep zones and the ability to be the vocal leader of the defense but relying on him to be healthy seems like a massive stretch.

Jordan Lucas shows the best ability to be able to play deep zones (single-high specifically) and drop down into man coverage on slot wide receivers.

[xen 1,010,220]

14 hours ago, NChiefsCorner said:

Safety Landon Collins.

 

Safety: The most important position in Spagnuolo’s defense is the strong safety, or at least in his most previous stint with the New York Giants. Landon Collins was used as a man defender against tight ends, running backs and occasionally wide receivers. He often was cutting, trapping or in a robber role when playing in zone and was a frequent blitzer off the edge or up the middle.

The free safety most often played deep but would kick down to the weak side in man coverage against wide receivers or running backs, which also means that the strong safety has to be comfortable playing deep, including single-high duties.

If Eric Berry is fully healthy he clearly projects well to that strong safety role with his ability in man, underneath zones, deep zones and the ability to be the vocal leader of the defense but relying on him to be healthy seems like a massive stretch.

Jordan Lucas shows the best ability to be able to play deep zones (single-high specifically) and drop down into man coverage on slot wide receivers.

Landon Collins can be had but nobody likes the price.  We already tried to pry him away this year.  He also doesn't sound happy about the whole situation.  

 

 

https://www.sny.tv/giants/news/landon-collins-definitely-wonders-if-giants-still-want-him-doesnt-want-to-get-franchise-tag/300447404

EAST RUTHERFORD, N.J. -- Landon Collins was once certain he'd spend his entire NFL career with the Giants, but after nearly being traded last week he's now not so sure anymore. There have been no talks about a long-term contract, and he's not even sure they'll give him the "franchise tag" -- a tag he absolutely doesn't want.

So as the Giants begin the second half of this lost season on Monday night, the 24-year-old Collins will be playing out the string in limbo. He wants to return to the Giants in 2019.

He's just not sure they still want him.

"I don't know," Collins told SNY on Wednesday. "Does it make me wonder? Yeah. It definitely does."

The 24-year-old safety has been wondering since last Tuesday, the day before the trading deadline when he got a shocking text from his trainer, former NFL safety Ryan Clark. Collins had heard the rumors that the Giants were having a firesale and he knew his name was part of the speculation. He just didn't believe the Giants would actually do it -- until Clark, who also works as an ESPN analyst, texted him that he heard a trade was in the works.

The text "messed up my head," Collins admitted. He had his son on his lap when he read it and had to put him down. He reached out to his agent, who confirmed the rumors were true.

And suddenly Collins' future with the Giants didn't seem so certain at all.

"It surprised the hell out of me," Collins said. "It was a big eye-opener. If they're rebuilding, they can rebuild without me. And I'm so young still, but they could still try to find younger and put the money elsewhere, into whatever they need to put it into to rebuild their team."

The Giants weren't actively shopping Collins at the trading deadline, but an NFL source told SNY they did get multiple offers. One offer included a third-round pick, which the source believed got the Giants' attention. But in the end, their price was believed to be at least a second-round pick, and probably more.

None of the interested teams -- which the source said included the Kansas City Chiefs and the Tampa Bay Bucs -- were willing to go that high for a player unsigned after this year.

The fact that Collins is still unsigned only adds to his uncertainty about the Giants' plans. Collins said there have been no conversations between his agent and the Giants' front office about a new contract. He watched the Giants spend last offseason on players like left tackle Nate Solderand linebacker Kareem Martin and even running back Jonathan Stewart, and then he saw them move quickly to lock up Odell Beckham Jr. to a massive, $95 million deal.

But they've yet to turn their attention to him.

Though they can still open up talks at any time, even Collins admits the most likely scenario is that the Giants slap the "franchise tag" on him before the free agent signing period opens in March. That would likely guarantee him about $13 million in 2019, but it would keep him off a market where he could probably find a deal worth $50 million over four seasons with more than $20 million guaranteed.

That's why he has no interest in getting the franchise tag.

"Honestly I don't want it," he said. "I know what type of player I am. I'm going to bring forth hard-work, talent, play-making abilities to the game each and every week. Why would I want to play under a one-year deal? If something happens I'm not guaranteed. And even though I'm guaranteed that for a year, I'm still not guaranteed."

Of course, Collins knows that if the Giants use the tag "I don't have a choice." He's can solicit offers, but given that any team that signs him would have to forfeit two first-round picks to the Giants in return, the reality is that no team is going to do that.

So eventually he'll just have to sign it whether he's happy about it or not -- although probably not right away.

"It is what it is," Collins said. "If they franchise tag me I have to go from there. I can't go nowhere. There's not much I can do."

In the meantime, all Collins can do is hope that the Giants' rebuilding plan includes him. The "nerve-wracking" hours around the trading deadline shook his belief in that. He still wants to finish his career in New York. But for the first time, he's considering the possibility that he'll be playing somewhere else.

"Yes, I want to be here," Collins said. "At the end of the day, I'm here with my boys, I'm glad to be here with them and I'll finish this year out with them. If I'm here with them again I'll be happy with it. If not, I've got to still move on and do my job somewhere else."

[ChiefThunder 154]

I'd give up a 2nd in this years draft no problem. Look at who we have drafted the last few years...Collins comes in and starts. The only issue is what we do with Berry. 

[KC Warpaint 3,251]

4 minutes ago, ChiefThunder said:

I'd give up a 2nd in this years draft no problem. Look at who we have drafted the last few years...Collins comes in and starts. The only issue is what we do with Berry. 

wouldn't cost a thing, he is a FA unless i am missing info

[sith13 1,746]

4 hours ago, KC Warpaint said:

wouldn't cost a thing, he is a FA unless i am missing info

I think he's referring to a possible tag. 

[xen 1,010,220]

9 hours ago, KC Warpaint said:

wouldn't cost a thing, he is a FA unless i am missing info

 

5 hours ago, sith13 said:

I think he's referring to a possible tag. 

Yes I am referring to the article and the fact he is likely to get tagged.  

 

[KC Warpaint 3,251]

if he gets tagged it would cost more than a 2nd

[sith13 1,746]

The asking price would definitely be higher than a 2nd but considering that Collins doesn't want to play under the tag (per article) they might opt to give him up for a 2nd in 2019 instead of a 1st in 2020 depending on how things work out. In our case a late 2nd would probably be a steal so throwing in a player or may be a 2020 pick as well would be needed as I'm sure some other team like the Cowboys would make a better offer. 

[oldtimer 8,694]

how bout a tagged Ford for a tagged Collins?

[sith13 1,746]

24 minutes ago, oldtimer said:

how bout a tagged Ford for a tagged Collins?

I would consider that a huge win for us but it all depends on how the Giants value pass rush. They might like the idea of Ford-Vernon duo rushing the passer. In our case Collins would contribute more than Ford and we wouldn't be paying the huge contract. Also Collins has been a healthy guy that would still be in his prime after a 6-year deal whereas Ford has 2-3 years left before the injuries catch up on him assuming he remains healthy. 

[Mloe68 1,521]

KC Star Sam Mellinger just said from what he’s hearing they really want to restructure Houston.  Ford is a wild card.  He also made point Spags will have control over his staff (although it may take two offseasons to get his guys in place and no doubt B Reid is locked in).  

This all kind of adds up to seem like he’s also gonna be involved in bringing in a few veteran fits for his system. 

[Fmbl2187 2,279]

14 hours ago, ChiefThunder said:

I'd give up a 2nd in this years draft no problem. Look at who we have drafted the last few years...Collins comes in and starts. The only issue is what we do with Berry. 

At Berry's cost, the only issue to me is whether or not he gets the Haglund;s surgery to get rid of those spurs.  If he does and gets it now and is ready for camp, then there is no question.  We keep him until the end of his contract and forget about Collins. 

[sith13 1,746]

4 hours ago, Mloe68 said:

KC Star Sam Mellinger just said from what he’s hearing they really want to restructure Houston.  Ford is a wild card.  He also made point Spags will have control over his staff (although it may take two offseasons to get his guys in place and no doubt B Reid is locked in).  

This all kind of adds up to seem like he’s also gonna be involved in bringing in a few veteran fits for his system. 

Houston for 30 over the next 3 years could make sense or over 4 years for team friendly cap reasons. He's still very good when healthy and could set the edge against the run. Considering the way Reid likes to focus on offense he'll probably delegate as much power as possible to Spags so I'm pretty sure we'll see some coaching changes, especially in terms of attitude. 

[sith13 1,746]

1 hour ago, Fmbl2187 said:

At Berry's cost, the only issue to me is whether or not he gets the Haglund;s surgery to get rid of those spurs.  If he does and gets it now and is ready for camp, then there is no question.  We keep him until the end of his contract and forget about Collins. 

Prior to the Pats game they said Berry was to have surgery right after the season ended. Might have already had it as I'm sure the front office wants to know his 2019 status by the time FA comes around.

[Mloe68 1,521]

40 minutes ago, sith13 said:

Houston for 30 over the next 3 years could make sense or over 4 years for team friendly cap reasons. He's still very good when healthy and could set the edge against the run. Considering the way Reid likes to focus on offense he'll probably delegate as much power as possible to Spags so I'm pretty sure we'll see some coaching changes, especially in terms of attitude. 

Houston is still a very solid player. But his energy level seems to be dropping with his age. Maybe this would be an easier position for him to play without all the coverage responsiblities and could keep him playing at a higher level longer. I've always advocated letting him go, but I suppose this new defense combined with a willingness to work with us to restructure would change my mind. 

[Mloe68 1,521]

2 hours ago, Fmbl2187 said:

At Berry's cost, the only issue to me is whether or not he gets the Haglund;s surgery to get rid of those spurs.  If he does and gets it now and is ready for camp, then there is no question.  We keep him until the end of his contract and forget about Collins. 

While I agree with this you also have to consider that there's NO WAY we can count on Berry next year. He's almost gotta be considered a bonus. That makes this all very tricky. 

[Iluvhouse24 1,808]

1 hour ago, Mloe68 said:

While I agree with this you also have to consider that there's NO WAY we can count on Berry next year. He's almost gotta be considered a bonus. That makes this all very tricky. 

The situation sucks. Conttact that makes a player nearly impossible to release. Health that makes a player impossible to pencil into the lineup.

Almost have to approach safety as if he isnt on the roster. But he takes up 13 million in cap space.

I'll tell you what...Dorsey is a hell of a scout, but I wouldnt let that fucking guy near a player contract if I were his boss. His boss is a pompous ass though, so who knows how the hierarchy goes there.

[Mloe68 1,521]

1 minute ago, Iluvhouse24 said:

The situation sucks. Conttact that makes a player nearly impossible to release. Health that makes a player impossible to pencil into the lineup.

Almost have to approach safety as if he isnt on the roster. But he takes up 13 million in cap space.

I'll tell you what...Dorsey is a hell of a scout, but I wouldnt let that fucking guy near a player contract if I were his boss. His boss is a pompous ass though, so who knows how the hierarchy goes there.

Did you read that ESPN story about the Browns owner? I thought Snyder in Washington was bad, but that guy takes the cake. As for Berry I'd really prefer to move on and let a new leader emerge for our future. But contract wise as you said, it really doesn't make sense so we really would have to bite the bullet to make that happen. All we can hope for is that surgery provides a more definitive prognosis.

[kkuenn 3,613]

5 minutes ago, Mloe68 said:

Did you read that ESPN story about the Browns owner? I thought Snyder in Washington was bad, but that guy takes the cake. As for Berry I'd really prefer to move on and let a new leader emerge for our future. But contract wise as you said, it really doesn't make sense so we really would have to bite the bullet to make that happen. All we can hope for is that surgery provides a more definitive prognosis.

Trade him to the browns. Let them eat cap and we eat what we must too

 

[Iluvhouse24 1,808]

10 minutes ago, Mloe68 said:

Did you read that ESPN story about the Browns owner? I thought Snyder in Washington was bad, but that guy takes the cake. As for Berry I'd really prefer to move on and let a new leader emerge for our future. But contract wise as you said, it really doesn't make sense so we really would have to bite the bullet to make that happen. All we can hope for is that surgery provides a more definitive prognosis.

Yeah I read it. Sounds like he has perpetuated this dysfunction. This is the first stability theyve had because he's finally given a GM some control.

[xen 1,010,220]

Not sure Houston has a spot in the new defense.  Maybe the Sam?

[Fmbl2187 2,279]

3 hours ago, Mloe68 said:

Houston is still a very solid player. But his energy level seems to be dropping with his age. Maybe this would be an easier position for him to play without all the coverage responsiblities and could keep him playing at a higher level longer. I've always advocated letting him go, but I suppose this new defense combined with a willingness to work with us to restructure would change my mind. 

I agree with keeping him at that pay level and signing as many of the contract year people we can while Mahomes is still on his first contract.  Most of these guys want to be on a winner, and the Chiefs will always be a winner and a solid contender with Mahomes and Reid at the controls. That will attract some good people who will play for less than they would demand from other teams.  Our current formula is the one that can win the whole thing. Our defense has to be only average to win a Superbowl.  Spags will help, I believe.  I think the talent level on defense is actually there, lying with the young guys who have been drafted but are still being coached up and not yet in the starting lineup.  I believe the best bet, and the one that Veach will follow, is to let one expensive guys go in FA and save money for one or two well-scouted young guys who couldn't crack the starting lineup on other teams or for mid round or late round choices who will cost less.  The O-line must be kept very strong, and the playmakers have to be there for Mahomes. Go for middle-of-the-road on defense and forget the days of yore.