Spags players coming here?

[jetlord 10,210]

7 hours ago, Fmbl2187 said:

I agree with keeping him at that pay level and signing as many of the contract year people we can while Mahomes is still on his first contract.  Most of these guys want to be on a winner, and the Chiefs will always be a winner and a solid contender with Mahomes and Reid at the controls. That will attract some good people who will play for less than they would demand from other teams.  

Do we really know that players will take less to play for a probable winner?  It makes sense, but so many elite players seem to go for the money and to be in a market where they can get fame and endorsements.  KC is a small market and unless they consistently win, including SBs, they won't offer the players the potentials that NY or LA can.  Sure, they want to win, but maybe they'd rather win in a big market/big media center with more outside opportunities. 

[Mloe68 1,521]

2 hours ago, jetlord said:

Do we really know that players will take less to play for a probable winner?  It makes sense, but so many elite players seem to go for the money and to be in a market where they can get fame and endorsements.  KC is a small market and unless they consistently win, including SBs, they won't offer the players the potentials that NY or LA can.  Sure, they want to win, but maybe they'd rather win in a big market/big media center with more outside opportunities. 

Players aren’t giving up millions of dollars to play anywhere in most cases.  You might get some discount and it certainly could help win a recruiting battle with similiar contract offers  though.  But notion Mahomes would take massive money off the table for the home team isn’t realistic at all. 

The most likely people to be willing to concede money are the last contract short term veterans who are desperate for a ring. Those are the type of band aids you want on your roster. 

[kkuenn 3,613]

2 hours ago, Mloe68 said:

Players aren’t giving up millions of dollars to play anywhere in most cases.  You might get some discount and it certainly could help win a recruiting battle with similiar contract offers  though.  But notion Mahomes would take massive money off the table for the home team isn’t realistic at all. 

The most likely people to be willing to concede money are the last contract short term veterans who are desperate for a ring. Those are the type of band aids you want on your roster. 

The Randy Moss types like NE got or get still 

[sith13 1,746]

Rather than saving money immediately it accumulates. Chiefs will have leverage over others with Mahomes in town so could be the "sexy" pick without paying extra which we had to until now. I think the bigger advantage in terms of contracts isn't getting the stars but rather the guys that want to showcase their skills with Mahomes for a bigger payday. Proven vets that already got paid by other teams coming in for rings is just an added bonus. 

[Fmbl2187 2,279]

9 hours ago, jetlord said:

Do we really know that players will take less to play for a probable winner?  It makes sense, but so many elite players seem to go for the money and to be in a market where they can get fame and endorsements.  KC is a small market and unless they consistently win, including SBs, they won't offer the players the potentials that NY or LA can.  Sure, they want to win, but maybe they'd rather win in a big market/big media center with more outside opportunities. 

Well, there is not a collective, overall "players."  I should have said SOME players.  They aren't monolithic.  They are just diverse people who play football for a living.  Some are most interested in money.  Some are most interested in winning and being part of something special. Some are great people, and some are dicks.  I would guess that they wouldn't be pro football players if they didn't love the game and were competitive people.  Those characteristics would show up to some extent in who picks what offer when they are a FA.  If I were in mid-career and already had plenty in the bank and had been playing for a shitty franchise in an ugly, old city  with nothing but a financial district and otherwise with lots of  mean streets, for a coach who is an asshole, I would take less money to play on a team with Reid and Mahomes and contend for a title  in a city that is alive and has great barbecue and a fan base like the Chiefs.

[jetlord 10,210]

3 hours ago, Fmbl2187 said:

Well, there is not a collective, overall "players."  I should have said SOME players.  They aren't monolithic.  They are just diverse people who play football for a living.  Some are most interested in money.  Some are most interested in winning and being part of something special. Some are great people, and some are dicks.  I would guess that they wouldn't be pro football players if they didn't love the game and were competitive people.  Those characteristics would show up to some extent in who picks what offer when they are a FA.  If I were in mid-career and already had plenty in the bank and had been playing for a shitty franchise in an ugly, old city  with nothing but a financial district and otherwise with lots of  mean streets, for a coach who is an asshole, I would take less money to play on a team with Reid and Mahomes and contend for a title  in a city that is alive and has great barbecue and a fan base like the Chiefs.

Of course, there are exceptions, but for a player seeking his first contract after his rookie deal the temptation to make the biggest pay day possible would be overwhelming.  Even the most confident players know that they are one injury or one bad situation away from never cashing in again.  There are also those unfortunate ones who mishandle their finances and actually need the biggest pay possible.  Then there are the agents who get a cut of whatever the player gets and have influence over their  clients.  My point is that in most cases, the player and his agent aren't going to give that much of a discount to play with a winner.  They have options to play for other winners and other cities have much to offer that KC doesn't, especially endorsement opportunities and media attention.

[Fmbl2187 2,279]

1 hour ago, jetlord said:

Of course, there are exceptions, but for a player seeking his first contract after his rookie deal the temptation to make the biggest pay day possible would be overwhelming.  Even the most confident players know that they are one injury or one bad situation away from never cashing in again.  There are also those unfortunate ones who mishandle their finances and actually need the biggest pay possible.  Then there are the agents who get a cut of whatever the player gets and have influence over their  clients.  My point is that in most cases, the player and his agent aren't going to give that much of a discount to play with a winner.  They have options to play for other winners and other cities have much to offer that KC doesn't, especially endorsement opportunities and media attention.

I respectfully disagree.  These are kids.  Usually in their mid to late twenties. To some, making the most money possible can be the overriding concern.  To most others at that age, playing for a winner and a rabid fan base is not only much more fun, but also enhances their own later market value.  Even 28 year olds have different value systems and ability for long-range thinking, let alone lifestyles or families to support. Not everyone is primarily in pursuit of riches above all else.

[jetlord 10,210]

2 hours ago, Fmbl2187 said:

I respectfully disagree.  These are kids.  Usually in their mid to late twenties. To some, making the most money possible can be the overriding concern.  To most others at that age, playing for a winner and a rabid fan base is not only much more fun, but also enhances their own later market value.  Even 28 year olds have different value systems and ability for long-range thinking, let alone lifestyles or families to support. Not everyone is primarily in pursuit of riches above all else.

Not everyone, but I don't expect to see free agents knocking down the door to play for KC and along side Mahomes. 

[Fmbl2187 2,279]

5 minutes ago, jetlord said:

Not everyone, but I don't expect to see free agents knocking down the door to play for KC and along side Mahomes. 

No, but if we offered them the same or even a little less, they would sign with us instead of some crappy team like Oakland  

[Nonchalant29 23]

On 1/28/2019 at 4:43 PM, xen said:

Not sure Houston has a spot in the new defense.  Maybe the Sam?

Leo

[Mloe68 1,521]

Inside LBs coach Mark DeLeone was hired by the Bears today. I'm not sure who is available at this point but Spags is going to be hiring some of his own coaches. 

[xen 1,010,220]

2 hours ago, Nonchalant29 said:

Leo

I don't know.  That's a designated pass rusher position.  Not sure he has the chops for that anymore

[jetlord 10,210]

3 hours ago, Fmbl2187 said:

No, but if we offered them the same or even a little less, they would sign with us instead of some crappy team like Oakland  

Not so sure.  Vegas does have it's attractions to young men with big bucks.  😎

[Fmbl2187 2,279]

4 minutes ago, jetlord said:

Not so sure.  Vegas does have it's attractions to young men with big bucks.  😎

Is Vegas a done deal? I forgot.

[Nonchalant29 23]

1 hour ago, xen said:

I don't know.  That's a designated pass rusher position.  Not sure he has the chops for that anymore

I understand that ford statistically speaking had a much better year that 50, but it’s my humble opinion that 50 is still a top pass rusher in this league, and a better Leo option than ford.

[Fmbl2187 2,279]

It's an age old dynamic - Do you go for a devastating pass rush to hurt an opponent's passing game, or do you go for a devastating secondary to stop the passes at the opposite end.  The key is balance, speed, and good coaching.  We need Jones pushing the middle and one really good outside rusher and a constantly changing and well disguised blitz packages.  I would hesitate more to let Houston go than Ford, but that's just me.  We are not going to be able to afford to keep both of them. My reason to keep Houston is the way he controls the edge. I don't see that he has lost enough speed to change my mind on that.  His playing speed is fast, because he just plain knows what is happening really, really fast. His brain makes up for a lost step.  Ford totally depends on his otherworldly first step, and when it goes, he has nothing else and will fade from the scene quickly.

[xen 1,010,220]

54 minutes ago, Nonchalant29 said:

I understand that ford statistically speaking had a much better year that 50, but it’s my humble opinion that 50 is still a top pass rusher in this league, and a better Leo option than ford.

I am a proponent of tagging and trading Ford.  I don't trust him long term.  Back injuries have a habit of popping back up again and again.  But that still leaves us with needing to transition to new pass rushers.  Build around Jones is my thought.  Nothing more disruptive than interior pressure.

[jetlord 10,210]

17 minutes ago, xen said:

I am a proponent of tagging and trading Ford.  I don't trust him long term.  Back injuries have a habit of popping back up again and again.  But that still leaves us with needing to transition to new pass rushers.  Build around Jones is my thought.  Nothing more disruptive than interior pressure.

What could the Chiefs expect for a tagged Ford?  I like the idea of trading him and keeping Houston for another year, especially if he'll restructure.

[Nonchalant29 23]

The tag would imply bidding starts a 2 1s, but no one will do that and shouldn’t.. I’d say a 2nd would get it done, but I’m not so sure we don’t just let him hit the open market n settle for a comp pick n hope for a 3rd

[sith13 1,746]

2 hours ago, jetlord said:

What could the Chiefs expect for a tagged Ford?  I like the idea of trading him and keeping Houston for another year, especially if he'll restructure.

I doubt Houston would restructure only to stay for a year but who knows. The likely scenario is extending him 3-4 years for a modest amount in a deal that we can get out of after 2nd year perhaps. 

If he had Allen type production prior to leaving we could expect something more but I would be happy with an early 2nd since the team also has to pay him. Anything in 1st would be a huge bonus IMO. I'm wondering if Spags did some scouting while he was off-duty but if he did we could really utilize some 2nd day picks. 

[DieHard 2,061]

I think keeping Houston is a must. He could play all 3 LB positions and both DE spots. Ford is a one trick pony that does not fit at all into a 4-3 IMO.

[xen 1,010,220]

14 hours ago, Nonchalant29 said:

The tag would imply bidding starts a 2 1s, but no one will do that and shouldn’t.. I’d say a 2nd would get it done, but I’m not so sure we don’t just let him hit the open market n settle for a comp pick n hope for a 3rd

Two 1's isn't really the starter if you're actively looking for a trade.  I think two 2's is the starter and settle for what u can get.  Hopefully that includes a 2, but hell a 3 and a ? is better than a comp pick.  

[Lamardirts 2,121]

I know it sounds crazy but is there anyone out there in FA that we would rather have?    Is it possible we try and tag and trade Ford for a 2nd and then just cut Houston.   

Maybe sign a guy like Frank Clark for the Leo?   

 

[xen 1,010,220]

47 minutes ago, Lamardirts said:

I know it sounds crazy but is there anyone out there in FA that we would rather have?    Is it possible we try and tag and trade Ford for a 2nd and then just cut Houston.   

Maybe sign a guy like Frank Clark for the Leo?   

 

Don't think Clark is getting to free agency.  But I don't think the overall idea is crazy at all.  Maybe a Brandon Graham as a short term solution.

[NChiefsCorner 496]

6 hours ago, DieHard said:

I think keeping Houston is a must. He could play all 3 LB positions and both DE spots. Ford is a one trick pony that does not fit at all into a 4-3 IMO.

Ford play in a 4-3 defense at Auburn.