Mloe68 1,521 Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 Philosophically how much impact does the Rams all in approach have on Veach and Andy moving forward if any? The Rams basically sold out to get any weakness filled with a proven veteran regardless of price that they couldn't address early in the draft as they knew their window with Goff under his rookie salary was ticking. If they do win the Lombardi this year, the "superteam" approach used in other sports and applied in a smaller way here may start to leak into some organzational models. It's defintely the polar opposite of what the Patriots do, but they don't have a rookie salary QB either. They know they will have to pay the price in the future for this gamble, but if they pick off a Lombardi or two it seems like is worth it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reesebobby 5,663 Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 16 minutes ago, Mloe68 said: Philosophically how much impact does the Rams all in approach have on Veach and Andy moving forward if any? The Rams basically sold out to get any weakness filled with a proven veteran regardless of price that they couldn't address early in the draft as they knew their window with Goff under his rookie salary was ticking. If they do win the Lombardi this year, the "superteam" approach used in other sports and applied in a smaller way here may start to leak into some organzational models. It's defintely the polar opposite of what the Patriots do, but they don't have a rookie salary QB either. They know they will have to pay the price in the future for this gamble, but if they pick off a Lombardi or two it seems like is worth it. I don't think that will become the new model. They were fortunate to even be in the Super Bowl. The NBA has a salary cap, but it's not as difficult to navigate as a 53 man salary cap when it comes to buying championships. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lamardirts 2,121 Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 15 minutes ago, Mloe68 said: Philosophically how much impact does the Rams all in approach have on Veach and Andy moving forward if any? The Rams basically sold out to get any weakness filled with a proven veteran regardless of price that they couldn't address early in the draft as they knew their window with Goff under his rookie salary was ticking. If they do win the Lombardi this year, the "superteam" approach used in other sports and applied in a smaller way here may start to leak into some organzational models. It's defintely the polar opposite of what the Patriots do, but they don't have a rookie salary QB either. They know they will have to pay the price in the future for this gamble, but if they pick off a Lombardi or two it seems like is worth it. I would if I was the Rams because Goff is less of a proven than Mahomes in my opinion. I don't think we should follow that approach because I do think our window will be open much longer even after Mahomes gets paid. Not to say we shouldn't be aggressive while Mahomes is on his rookie contract we shouldn't mortgage the farm either. The only reason the Rams are even in the SB is because the NFL screwed up beyond bad with a horrible no call. As bad as I think our D was this year imagine having theirs with the amount of money they have spent in FA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mloe68 1,521 Posted January 30, 2019 Author Share Posted January 30, 2019 10 minutes ago, reesebobby said: I don't think that will become the new model. They were fortunate to even be in the Super Bowl. The NBA has a salary cap, but it's not as difficult to navigate as a 53 man salary cap when it comes to buying championships. I think even the NY Yankess in their hey day of spending proved you can't buy championships. In order for this to work you have to draft and develop a high level QB and surround him with some young talent. I agree however the limitations of having to fill a 53 man roster make depth a really big problem if you have any injury issues at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mloe68 1,521 Posted January 30, 2019 Author Share Posted January 30, 2019 9 minutes ago, Lamardirts said: I would if I was the Rams because Goff is less of a proven than Mahomes in my opinion. I don't think we should follow that approach because I do think our window will be open much longer even after Mahomes gets paid. Not to say we shouldn't be aggressive while Mahomes is on his rookie contract we shouldn't mortgage the farm either. The only reason the Rams are even in the SB is because the NFL screwed up beyond bad with a horrible no call. As bad as I think our D was this year imagine having theirs with the amount of money they have spent in FA. Agree. And it should be noted the Rams also used a lot of draft currency to make all this happen. I'm not in favor of that part of it at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kkuenn 3,613 Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 9 minutes ago, Mloe68 said: Agree. And it should be noted the Rams also used a lot of draft currency to make all this happen. I'm not in favor of that part of it at all. Let them do it and then pick off guys when they do a sell off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reesebobby 5,663 Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 16 minutes ago, Mloe68 said: I think even the NY Yankess in their hey day of spending proved you can't buy championships. In order for this to work you have to draft and develop a high level QB and surround him with some young talent. I agree however the limitations of having to fill a 53 man roster make depth a really big problem if you have any injury issues at all. Not only that, but it's a soft cap. The cap this year in the NBA is 108 million and the Warrior payroll is 145 million. They are willing to pay the luxury tax and but the cap. Same with MLB. There's a luxury tax, but not a cap. The NFL cap is more of a hard number than the other sports and you have a lot more mouths to feed with not much more money. In the NBA, the same five guys play offense and defense and there are no special teams. You can't just have two elite running backs and neglect the offensive line or defense. It's just harder to buy a championship in the NFL than any other sport. I can't really think of a case where someone did it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mloe68 1,521 Posted January 30, 2019 Author Share Posted January 30, 2019 17 minutes ago, reesebobby said: Not only that, but it's a soft cap. The cap this year in the NBA is 108 million and the Warrior payroll is 145 million. They are willing to pay the luxury tax and but the cap. Same with MLB. There's a luxury tax, but not a cap. The NFL cap is more of a hard number than the other sports and you have a lot more mouths to feed with not much more money. In the NBA, the same five guys play offense and defense and there are no special teams. You can't just have two elite running backs and neglect the offensive line or defense. It's just harder to buy a championship in the NFL than any other sport. I can't really think of a case where someone did it. Good points as well and it should be noted only two teams in MLB went over the luxury tax threshold, but one of them is the World Champion Red Sox. The NBA has some crazy salary deals which makes it hard to follow and impossible to duplicate. But in fairness while the NFL does have a hard cap, its not hard to circumvent this at all as the Broncos have proven again and again. You just have to be willing to pay some big dead money in the future. Ironically they did that with a veteran QB nearing the end while the Rams are doing it with a rookie contract guy. It just seems like a new idea to captalize on the huge advantage that comes with a good young QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mloe68 1,521 Posted January 30, 2019 Author Share Posted January 30, 2019 32 minutes ago, kkuenn said: Let them do it and then pick off guys when they do a sell off. I really think part of the reason everyone agrees with this rookie pool is that those picks are so cheap that have become like gold. In order to have ammunition to trade picks and get players without screwing yourself in the future, they have to be doing a great job of accumulating them as well. And then you are right, there's gotta be a selloff of veterans at bottom barrel prices at some point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer 8,694 Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 The Rams had to make a giant splash because of the entertainment $$ competition with other LA teams & they had butt loads $$ to spend.. Chiefs have neither..so for those reasons alone are why that wont happen. Plowboys tried that with Deon Sanders etc, but the the Eagles and RedSkins tried it as well and failed misearbly. Clark Hunt I think would Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mloe68 1,521 Posted January 30, 2019 Author Share Posted January 30, 2019 3 minutes ago, oldtimer said: The Rams had to make a giant splash because of the entertainment $$ competition with other LA teams & they had butt loads $$ to spend.. Chiefs have neither..so for those reasons alone are why that wont happen. Plowboys tried that with Deon Sanders etc, but the the Eagles and RedSkins tried it as well and failed misearbly. lark Hunt I think would Great point about Andy trying this in Philly. It ultimately broke down his consistent winning machine and got him fired there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lamardirts 2,121 Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 I'm afraid we will try and restructure Houston and kick that monster contract down the road and then back load a terrible contract for Ford and then go out and sign a expensive Defensive FA. To make a hard push this year. Hope we don't do this. Houston and Berry's contract ought to be big time deterrents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thegoatee 1,785 Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 Other than Denver getting lucky with the Peyton Manning era, has this ever worked? LA went all in for one or two years. Hate to see what they look like come 2020 and 2021... if they don’t win this year or next, they failed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mloe68 1,521 Posted January 30, 2019 Author Share Posted January 30, 2019 20 minutes ago, Thegoatee said: Other than Denver getting lucky with the Peyton Manning era, has this ever worked? LA went all in for one or two years. Hate to see what they look like come 2020 and 2021... if they don’t win this year or next, they failed. While that is true. It's also the first time a team has tried this with a young first contract QB. They are one win away from the strategy paying off big time. But they also certainly had to risk more to do it. In the end the most important thing a team can possibly have is an elite level QB on his first contract. The second is a great coach. So maybe they are just stubbing themselves in the toe making an uneccesary tradeoff. I guess we will find out on Sunday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetlord 10,210 Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 If the Rams don't win the SB this weekend, would you rather be in their position or the Chiefs? Aside from a few overpaid vet players, the Chiefs are a reasonably young team and a couple of position upgrades will keep them competitive for several years. I want to see a Chiefs championship as much as anyone here, but I also want a team that has a chance to win every year and is as entertaining as they were this season. Bringing in one key player to fill a hole as the Chiefs wanted to do with Earl Thomas might be a good thing. Going all out with spending for one big push could end up with no SB title and a cap hangover for years to come. The right way is to build slowly and keep churning the roster to have a shot every year while the Chiefs have an elite QB and several top targets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mloe68 1,521 Posted January 31, 2019 Author Share Posted January 31, 2019 5 hours ago, jetlord said: If the Rams don't win the SB this weekend, would you rather be in their position or the Chiefs? Aside from a few overpaid vet players, the Chiefs are a reasonably young team and a couple of position upgrades will keep them competitive for several years. I want to see a Chiefs championship as much as anyone here, but I also want a team that has a chance to win every year and is as entertaining as they were this season. Bringing in one key player to fill a hole as the Chiefs wanted to do with Earl Thomas might be a good thing. Going all out with spending for one big push could end up with no SB title and a cap hangover for years to come. The right way is to build slowly and keep churning the roster to have a shot every year while the Chiefs have an elite QB and several top targets. Without question the Chiefs. And the plan I’ve advocated for is closer to the Patriots model of not overpaying anyone ever while being willing to trade guys that won’t fit within that. But if this works and they do win the Lombardi the handful of teams in great situations like ours might take a longer look at least at how they did it. The huge advantage goes away after you have to dish out the gigantic contract. I kind of feel like we have about a 3-4 year window before having to rework cap around a 200 million dollar contract. So we do have some time to do this right, but it can’t be a slow process where we waste what should be an epic offense in 2019. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sith13 1,746 Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 I doubt this will create a norm but we'll definitely see more QBs on rookie deals getting the nod over average veterans. Overpriced veteran QBs basically take away the team's ability to compete by costing more than a few solid veterans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mloe68 1,521 Posted January 31, 2019 Author Share Posted January 31, 2019 1 hour ago, sith13 said: I doubt this will create a norm but we'll definitely see more QBs on rookie deals getting the nod over average veterans. Overpriced veteran QBs basically take away the team's ability to compete by costing more than a few solid veterans. When you think about it the Bears have followed a somewhat similiar path by foregoing any first round picks until 2020 to get and pay Khalil Mack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sith13 1,746 Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 1 hour ago, Mloe68 said: When you think about it the Bears have followed a somewhat similiar path by foregoing any first round picks until 2020 to get and pay Khalil Mack. The rules are already making it easier to play QB, so top players in other positions might actually be more worthy of recognition as "game manager" QBs will be easier to find around. Simply build a talented roster and find a decent QB on a rookie contract and the team has a shot at the SB for a few years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mloe68 1,521 Posted January 31, 2019 Author Share Posted January 31, 2019 3 hours ago, sith13 said: The rules are already making it easier to play QB, so top players in other positions might actually be more worthy of recognition as "game manager" QBs will be easier to find around. Simply build a talented roster and find a decent QB on a rookie contract and the team has a shot at the SB for a few years. I’d completely disagree with that. Only 4 QBs in 15 years had hosted AFC Title. Most of those 3 or more times. It all starts with an elite QB. We saw that first hand this year. But teams may be saying let’s go spend money while we can. Heck even we spent huge on S Watkins. Maybe a D player this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sith13 1,746 Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 17 minutes ago, Mloe68 said: I’d completely disagree with that. Only 4 QBs in 15 years had hosted AFC Title. Most of those 3 or more times. It all starts with an elite QB. We saw that first hand this year. But teams may be saying let’s go spend money while we can. Heck even we spent huge on S Watkins. Maybe a D player this year. That's exactly what I'm saying. Elite QBs make the difference but the average veterans just take up cap space. Paying a guy like Alex Smith doesn't get anyone to the SB, even paying Russell Wilson who's pretty good didn't get the Seahawks to the SB. Unless the QB is elite there's basically not much incentive to give up the 20+ per year to a guy and hope for a SB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qnet 1,158 Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 I'm sure more teams will try to do what the Rams did, if they win this weekend. I like the way the Chiefs are doing it . Most of their playmakers were drafted and developed within, with a few FA's sprinkled in. It didn't work out this past season, but will pay off in the future IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetlord 10,210 Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 5 hours ago, sith13 said: That's exactly what I'm saying. Elite QBs make the difference but the average veterans just take up cap space. Paying a guy like Alex Smith doesn't get anyone to the SB, even paying Russell Wilson who's pretty good didn't get the Seahawks to the SB. Unless the QB is elite there's basically not much incentive to give up the 20+ per year to a guy and hope for a SB. It's not that easy to get an elite QB for most teams. Either they have to be so pathetic that they have a top pick in a year with good talent coming out, trade away valuable picks to move up, or get lucky like the Chiefs and grab a unique talent at the #10 spot, And sometimes teams whiff even when in position to pick high. It's a balancing act between elite QB and supporting team and you need both to win. LAC is a prime example of a team with a top QB and some good supporting talent but a team that never went to the SB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WichitaZRide 321 Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 I think that its always going to be a mix....every year we see the big splash free agency/trade teams and because for the first time in 20 years someone actually made it work (i'll say the Elway teams did it last) it looks like the new model. Not really, its already being done every year.... sustainable plans are proven to work...but at the same time know when your window is there... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mloe68 1,521 Posted January 31, 2019 Author Share Posted January 31, 2019 6 hours ago, sith13 said: That's exactly what I'm saying. Elite QBs make the difference but the average veterans just take up cap space. Paying a guy like Alex Smith doesn't get anyone to the SB, even paying Russell Wilson who's pretty good didn't get the Seahawks to the SB. Unless the QB is elite there's basically not much incentive to give up the 20+ per year to a guy and hope for a SB. You are right about that. Paying Kirk Cousins or Case Keenum or Alex Smith is just one big expensive money suck that has almost no chance to work. Of course its also been proven that once the elite QBs get paid their teams chances diminish considerably as well. But it does show that teams need to draft a QB and get him out there playing very quickly. As such I think we are likely going to see an era where there's a bigger gap between the good teams and bad teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.